Trump advocates for Russia to rejoin G7 to make G8

[UKHistory]

The Radcliff, KY contingent is in agreement. Just a few million more to bring to our side.

[Doc]

I have never defended Trumps stetement towards McCain, and NEVER will. Personally I think McCain is a weak leader but like every single person who served in the military and put their life on the line, be it during war or peace, who were capture or not, a genuine hero. So while I think Trump's statement was funny, it was wholly and utterly tasteless. But thats Trumps style. Thats being a "New Yorker". Is it worse than referring to half the nation as "deplorable"? Or suggesting that the GOP's health care platform is to simply "kill granny"? Or if you oppose ANY Presidential initiative you are a racist? I guess it depends if it you that is being called the deplorable murdering racist. I don't particularly like it but clearly the left sees me exactly as that because that is exactly how they refer to me. Do it bother you that I and millions of others are baselessly called a racist as much as Trumps comment toward a single individual? Does you dander get as raised when the race baiter use pull out the entire deck or cards.
Personally I'm over it, and I suspect McCain is over Trump juvenile comment.

[CitizenBBN]

So far we have a page of discussion of Trump, and the only criticism of him is stuff he's said.

You know what a politician's words are worth? Nothing. Not a dang thing.

The question is what they DO, that's how you measure them if you want to be objective and not sucked into the party talking points.

I continue to see the claim he's in bed with Russia. This despite him actually responding in Syria, with force, that apparently killed Russian soldiers or at least killed their allies. The last President did nothing to curb Russian influence in that region.

This despite his working to build up the anti-Russian side in the Ukraine by providing them coal instead of Russia. last President did nothing even when they annexed part of the Ukraine.

This despite his ACTION of putting troops in the Baltic states, and GOING to that region early in his administration and pledging support. Of course his action apparently counts as nothing, b/c in the campaign he called out NATO for not spending enough. so his words months earlier mean more than his actual actions as President to some. I'm betting Putin disagrees.

Point to me Trump's ACTIONS as President that have in some way aided Putin. Find me something that shows Trump is doing something unusually favorable to Putin and Russia that is unusual in the context of our post-Soviet dealings with them. Not words, actual actions.

Once again, when you look at the actual facts and not just words and claims and politics, you see that this president has been far tougher on Russia than either his opponent or the last Administration.

There's no basis whatsoever, a year plus into his Administration, to think there is any pro-Russian platform within the White House. Not a single act of policy that is in any way out of character, and several acts that show growing US hegemony against Russian advancements from the middle East through Eastern Europe and into the Baltics. And that doesn't even count North Korea, another huge piece of Sino-Soviet hegemony against the West that Trump is trying to remove.

Stick to the actions, not the words and claims and talking points, and the picture of politics becomes so much more clear. And when you do, you find that Trump has been a shocklingly better presidnet thus far than even many supports thought we would see.

[CitizenBBN]

Oh, and Re the McCain comment, if that's an "automatic disqualifier", I want "you didn't build that" added to the list, and Obama's court appointments rettroactively removed from the bench. That comment shows a man who fundamentally does not believe in entrepreneurism or free markets or anything else on which this nation is based.

Trump's comment was boorish and rude and everything else, as was his comment about Cruz, and a host of others. No doubt about it.

But more than 60 million Americans are sick of polished politicians who say all the right things but do all the wrong things, so they're willing to try a guy who says the wrong thing with frequency and even zest, in hopes he may do some right things. I agree with those folks. I want results, the words mean nothing.

Again, it's all about words, b/c policy wise there's really no good attack on him to this point. That's pretty telling.

And as for McCain, you may want to do a little reasearch on his time after his heroism in the war. Start by looking at his role in the S&L crisis in the 80s and his use of Senatorial influence. Google "Keating Five". that should get you a good start on learning more about the man as a politician.

Spoiler alert, you may not like all you find.

[CitizenBBN]

Let me save you some time re McCain, and just how honorable and noble he is as a person:

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/...g-five-6431838

http://www.investmentwatchblog.com/j...ed-politician/

Be careful who you rally around. McCain was a war hero no doubt, but as a private politician he's been corrupt and manipulative and two faced as they come.

he was a hero. So was Benedict Arnold. Study the whole man before you get your dander up to much in his defense is my advice.

[Catonahottinroof]

I’m with you here. I’m certainly no Trump supporter, nor an Obama supporter. As a Libertarian I take it in the tailpipe from both parties. With that being said, Trump is not even getting close to a fair shake in the media, coupled with his Twitler image he has of tweeting buffoonery before he has all the facts. Sort of like Obama conmmenting on police issues, before the facts proved his comments idiotic. Yet the media buries Trump for his but not Obama, at least not in the volume It has Trump.
Some folks here need to step back and look without red or blue glasses on...

there seems to be a sense that there is a mass of Trump supporters. Im certainly not. In fact at times Im embarrassed by his anitics. What I am is a supporter of 1) his result and 2) the process. I see tremendous positive movement in or ecomony and foreign policy. I think the economy is undeniable. Foreign policy os always debatable but ISIS and N.Korea certainly show progress. As for the American Process, that is not so positive. Hillary lost, get over it. The les
ft needs to quit crying like little babies and move on. Thay act like 5 year olds. I never thought the the GOP could be made to look good when Obama won but miraculously they have becuase of liberal stupidity and childness

[kingcat]

I believe Trump at the very least has surrounded himself with people who draw support from Russian intelligence and it's oligarchy and and have used that to aid not only in his campaign but to manipulate foreign policy. We pretty much know that.

Until all the facts come out everything is just an opinion except what has been proven. But what's been proven and admitted to is pretty bad.

For instance, if a world leader can alter the truth after basically admitting to forming a misleading statement to cover up the appearance of malfeasance in a grave matter of national security, and his supporters refuse to question it, then there is not room for serious discussion. There is just zero defense for that type of thing.

What conclusions can anyone draw other than the administration has a blank check given it by its base. Even the slightest chance that what is being investigated is true, and it is historic on a level previously unheard of.
And criminal at the same level.

But I also understand that the matter is so grave that to be entrenched with the current administration one must deny to the end and hope they have chosen wisely.

I just dont believe many of my friends and family have chosen wisely in that regard. But I would be happy to be wrong.

I truly feel that way, and I must leave it at that

[Doc]

So far we have a page of discussion of Trump, and the only criticism of him is stuff he's
etc .

What I find interesting is the Russia stuff was instigated largely in part by a dossier created by Russians and given to DEMOCRATS to ATTACK TRUMP. Additionally how quickly we forget the open mike gaff by Obama to Putin about how much easier things will be after he is re-elected. And who was it that scraped the the missles defense plan out of Europe in 2009?

back on original topic....initially when the US pulled out of the N Korea talks, people went nuts but because they spun it as a move of weakness. Turns out is was media hogwash and politics as usual. As a nonpolitician, turned out to be a move of STRENGTH, the exact opposite which is exactly why I wouldn't question Russsia to the G7/8.

[Catonahottinroof]

No we don’t. You may believe what the media has told you, but the proof is lacking in everything you state.
I’ll be the first one on an impeachment tirade if that is proven, but it’s been hot air so far. Especially considering the CIA propagated the dossier that ended up in the FBI’s hands to have a special counsel in the first place. It all reeks of politics.

I believe Trump at the very least has surrounded himself with people who draw support from Russian intelligence and it's oligarchy and and have used that to aid not only in his campaign but to manipulate foreign policy. We pretty much know that.

Until all the facts come out everything is just an opinion except what has been proven. But what's been proven and admitted to is pretty bad.

For instance, if a world leader can alter the truth after basically admitting to forming a misleading statement to cover up the appearance of malfeasance in a grave matter of national security, and his supporters refuse to question it, then there is not room for serious discussion. There is just zero defense for that type of thing.

What conclusions can anyone draw other than the administration has a blank check given it by its base. Even the slightest chance that what is being investigated is true, and it is historic on a level previously unheard of.
And criminal at the same level.

But I also understand that the matter is so grave that to be entrenched with the current administration one must deny to the end and hope they have chosen wisely.

I just dont believe many of my friends and family have chosen wisely in that regard. But I would be happy to be wrong.

I truly feel that way, and I must leave it at that

[CitizenBBN]

I believe Trump at the very least has surrounded himself with people who draw support from Russian intelligence and it's oligarchy and and have used that to aid not only in his campaign but to manipulate foreign policy. We pretty much know that.

No we don't know that at all.

B/c you're cherry picking without the perspective of what Obama did or other candidates or politicians, you're seeing it through a biased lens. Did some people around trump have some connections to Russian people? Sure they did.

Clinton went and got paid six figures by those people for speeches. Podesta's brother represents a Russian bank. These ties run through everyone in DC on both sides of the aisle. Sessions recused himself for having met the Russian Ambassador twice, but every Senator has met that same man, many more than once. It's the nature of DC.

As for Trump getting a "blank check" by his "base" that is false. it's that we simply see this as a very different situation than you. I see a "deep state" of career bureaucrats texting about "insurance policies" in case Trump won, people who 99% vote for and donate to Democrats, using a "dossier" paid for as oppo research by the DNC to start an "investigation" of a guy with very minimal ties to Russia, while THEIR candidate was getting tens of millions from multiple foreign nations including Russia and nothing at all was ever done, despite serious questions about policy decisions being influenced by that money.


We have a memo from a key Clinton person stating outright that the Clinton Global Initiative and the Foundation were basically money raising operations for the Clintons: https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.9ad76e9c794a

yet no investigation, despite NUMEROUS foreign powers being on those donor lists, and many of them not legally disclosed.

Where you see me "changing the subject", I see perspective. I'm a Libertarian, I know everyone in Washington is corrupt, so I look for corruption and power, not party.

But what I see is that the Democrats and many Republicans are all in on the scam, and they are selling you down the river and you don't even know it. They are claiming Trump is the one with all these foreign ties when any cursory review shows THEY are the ones with all those ties, all that corruption, and Trump's ties are minimal at best compared to their way of doing business for decades.

it's not a blank check, we just see these claims in the context of what's really going on in Washington. If you think the Russians and Putin had no influence when they are paying Bill Clinton a million dollars in speaking fees and donating millions to officials through shells and Foundations and suddenly they are allowed to buy 25% of the US uranium reserve, bluntly IMO you are being naive.

When Trump does a deal to sell critical national resources to the Russians you call me b/c that will be evidence of the need for an investigation of foreign influence. So far the only people in DC who need investigating are the ones screaming the loudest about Trump.

Methinks they doth protest too much.

[CitizenBBN]

Oh, and here's the truth of Russia and their influence:

what they want isn't for Candidate X or Y to win. They'd love that perhaps, have "their man" in the White House, but that's too much to engineer. What they want pragmatically is exactly what they are getting, division and navel gazing that keeps us distracted and keeps WHOEVER is in office unable to act decisively on the global stage.

They spent money helping Sanders, they fed anti-Trump info to the DNC, they attacked Hillary. What they want is controversy and division, and frankly those on the left are playing right into their hands. That's why their "bots" were supporting the candidates unlikely to win, but then they turn around and provide oppo research to the DNC too.

The willing puppets of Putin are, sadly, those who are so convinced Trump is his puppet.

[Doc]

yes, if Russia was going to put their man in, it would have been Commrade Bernie, not Dom Trump

[kingcat]

I don’t know that Bernie has business ties to Russia

I am confident that the investigation is justified and that guilt has already been found in Trump subordinates.

How far that reaches is the only unanswered question

But I don’t mean to offend anyone who might disagree. Still, there is enough bipartisan confidence in the ongoing investigation to support my concerns

[Doc]

but you did know he was a socialist, right?


Lots of people have business ties to Russia and other countries. I recall a past president pushing for a global economy and citizenship

[badrose]

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...-presidencies/

[kingcat]

I fear an authoritarian government way more. And that is the path we're on.

[Catonahottinroof]

I agree with you there and both parties have brought us to that.

I fear an authoritarian government way more. And that is the path we're on.

[KeithKSR]

Trump continues to push an isolationist agenda railing against our allies while praising Russia. What is striking is that Putin has used trumps tariffs as an example of why US leadership is bad for the world.

Trump wants to ignore the annexation of Crimea and isolate America totally.

God help us all.

Trump isn't an isolationist at all. He does want fair trade, and ultimately wants free trade. The F in NAFTA is supposed to stand for free, but it has been free in one direction. For example Canada charges 270% tariffs on US dairy imports, the US charged nothing for Canadian steel. The leftist media think it is appalling that Trump has proposed a 25% tariff on Canadian steel to spur talks to get a more equitable deal.

Every G7 trading partner, China and Russia have similar types of trade deals that screw over Americans.

[CitizenBBN]

Trump isn't an isolationist at all. He does want fair trade, and ultimately wants free trade. The F in NAFTA is supposed to stand for free, but it has been free in one direction. For example Canada charges 270% tariffs on US dairy imports, the US charged nothing for Canadian steel. The leftist media think it is appalling that Trump has proposed a 25% tariff on Canadian steel to spur talks to get a more equitable deal.

Every G7 trading partner, China and Russia have similar types of trade deals that screw over Americans.

I'm the biggest free trade person you'll ever meet. I believe in it in my soul, and any first year micro economics student should be able to show how tariffs are economically the worst possible policy position you can take.

BUT, it's also true that what we have right now with other nations is NOT free trade. it's free on our end, but they still deny us markets and pressure our companies. Canada not as much as someone like China, but the issues are real and Trump isn't wrong.

Now, I don't support tariffs, but using tariffs as a political tool to get more free trade for the US, that I can't say is wrong. We'll see how he does, but he's not wrong that China for example has vastly exploited our trade relations, esp. the transfer of technology and intellectual property infringement. I it takes some saber rattling to get them to a better deal for us then that's a win.

Free trade is great. Wish we could get some on these areas, and maybe when Trump is done it will be better. We'll see.

[kingcat]

"To our allies: bipartisan majorities of Americans remain pro-free trade, pro-globalization & supportive of alliances based on 70 years of shared values," the Arizona senator tweeted. "Americans stand with you, even if our president doesn't."

..John McCain


“Russia shouldn’t be let back into the G8 until it changes the behavior that caused it to be expelled in the first place,
The fact is Russia still occupies Crimea and continues to fuel a violent conflict in eastern Ukraine. It maintains its support for the murderous Assad regime and aggressively uses disinformation and propaganda in an attempt to undermine, weaken, and divide the United States and our NATO allies. This kind of behavior should be condemned, not rewarded.”

..Ohio senator Rob Portman



“Putin is not our friend and he is not the President's buddy,” Sasse said. “He is a thug using Soviet-style aggression to wage a shadow war against America, and our leaders should act like it.”

..Nebraska senator Ben Sasse

"No, Russia should not be added to the G-7"

..Jeff Flake

[CitizenBBN]

"To our allies: bipartisan majorities of Americans remain pro-free trade, pro-globalization & supportive of alliances based on 70 years of shared values," the Arizona senator tweeted. "Americans stand with you, even if our president doesn't."

..John McCain

“Russia shouldn’t be let back into the G8 until it changes the behavior that caused it to be expelled in the first place,
The fact is Russia still occupies Crimea and continues to fuel a violent conflict in eastern Ukraine. It maintains its support for the murderous Assad regime and aggressively uses disinformation and propaganda in an attempt to undermine, weaken, and divide the United States and our NATO allies. This kind of behavior should be condemned, not rewarded.”

..Ohio senator Rob Portman

“Putin is not our friend and he is not the President's buddy,” Sasse said. “He is a thug using Soviet-style aggression to wage a shadow war against America, and our leaders should act like it.”

..Nebraska senator Ben Sasse

"No, Russia should not be added to the G-7"

..Jeff Flake

And what did any one of those men do when Crimea was annexed? Did they try to get sanctions, take any action?

Fact: Trump has done more, but not enough, to bolster the Ukraine against Russia than the previous admin or any of these senators. All they did was political hand wringing. Prove me wrong.

Besides its not clear what Trump wants. Could be a bargaining chip, could be nothing. W him you never know.

[CitizenBBN]

BTW, no one has to convince conservatives that Russia is an enemy. We were saying it while Hillary and Obama were funneling billions there with the reset, when they backed Syria, took the Crimea, etc and those on the left who had the power at the time did nothing.

Also when mitt Romney made that point and Obama and the media laughed at him.

I don't want them in the g7, but let's see what happens. So far Trump has stood up to them far more than Obama, no reason to think that will change.

But it is evidence which directly disproves the notion he is somehow beholden to them. That's proving to be pretty far fetched based on his actions.

[kingcat]

Fact: Trump has done more, but not enough, to bolster the Ukraine against Russia than the previous admin or any of these senators. All they did was political hand wringing. Prove me wrong.

It appears some very bright people in the Republican party believe they could do so.
This just served to point out that they completely disagree with you.

Im way too slow at typing to debate a "schooled" debater..and I lack the endurance to do so on a forum with mainly Trump supporters.
I'm only stating my opinion which happens in this instance to have wide and bipartisan support, albeit elsewhere.


“The opinions that are held with passion are always those for which no good ground exists; indeed the passion is the measure of the holders lack of rational conviction. Opinions in politics and religion are almost always held passionately.”

[Catonahottinroof]

Most of the folks in this thread debating you aren’t Trump supporters, we’re Libertarians...please pay better attention 😁

It appears some very bright people in the Republican party believe they could do so.
This just served to point out that they completely disagree with you.

Im way too slow at typing to debate a "schooled" debater..and I lack the endurance to do so on a site with mainly Trump supporters.

“Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”

[kingcat]

Most of the folks in this thread debating you aren’t Trump supporters, we’re Libertarians...please pay better attention ��

[KeithKSR]

"To our allies: bipartisan majorities of Americans remain pro-free trade, pro-globalization & supportive of alliances based on 70 years of shared values," the Arizona senator tweeted. "Americans stand with you, even if our president doesn't."

..John McCain


“Russia shouldn’t be let back into the G8 until it changes the behavior that caused it to be expelled in the first place,
The fact is Russia still occupies Crimea and continues to fuel a violent conflict in eastern Ukraine. It maintains its support for the murderous Assad regime and aggressively uses disinformation and propaganda in an attempt to undermine, weaken, and divide the United States and our NATO allies. This kind of behavior should be condemned, not rewarded.”

..Ohio senator Rob Portman



“Putin is not our friend and he is not the President's buddy,” Sasse said. “He is a thug using Soviet-style aggression to wage a shadow war against America, and our leaders should act like it.”

..Nebraska senator Ben Sasse

"No, Russia should not be added to the G-7"

..Jeff Flake

Refusing to negotiate with the Russians isn’t going to get them out of the Ukraine or Crimea, invasions which occurred under Obama’s watch with no action from Obama. The best hope of getting them out of those regions is at the negotiating table.

McCain is an idiot if he thinks what we have with G7 allies is anywhere near free trade. We allow them free trade while they levy huge tariffs against American products. That is no bueno.

[KeithKSR]

It appears some very bright people in the Republican party believe they could do so.
This just served to point out that they completely disagree with you.

Im way too slow at typing to debate a "schooled" debater..and I lack the endurance to do so on a site with mainly Trump supporters.
I'm only stating my opinion which happens in this instance to have wide and bipartisan support, albeit elsewhere.


“The opinions that are held with passion are always those for which no good ground exists; indeed the passion is the measure of the holders lack of rational conviction. Opinions in politics and religion are almost always held passionately.”

You didn’t quote a single bright Republican, you quoted guys who are RINOs.

[KeithKSR]

I fear an authoritarian government way more. And that is the path we're on.

Authoritarian is where we were headed under Obama’s pen and phone.

[kingcat]

You didn’t quote a single bright Republican, you quoted guys who are RINOs.

McCain was your candidate for the leader of the free world at one time. So an error in judgement is a possibility.

Or didnt you vote for the senator?

But anyway. I will back out of this discussion. No offense intended
I cant defend myself or the other messengers that get shot down, and I refuse to wave a white flag. So here I sit.

[kingcat]

Id like to add that, I tried my darndest at one time to shoot down John McCain,, what he stood for and sadly, even his patriotism and love for this country. I read every negative Democratic blog and every made up story out there. You know what I was left with?

Sarah Palin. The greatest political gift the dems were ever handed. Granted it was a mistake on his part as he admits.

But the Senator is a patriot and a hero. And he obviously cares more for this country than his party affiliation. As he has but a few more days on this earth it would be wise to listen to what he has to say. A good start would be my signature in this thread.
I guarantee you it comes from his heart and the wisdom born of his experience.
One would do well to listen and learn his meaning.

I just wanted to make known my respect for the man. And that respect started way back when our Potus was still a reality TV star.

He would have made a great president.
Just as most of you said.