Gunman is reported dead.
Gunman is reported dead.
ABC news saying 12 dead; one gunman still at large.
Now saying 27 dead, at least 14 children.
Lack of concern for human life. Sad and shameless.
There's no words to describe that kind of pure evil.
As long as I live, I will never understand what motivates anyone to harm, much less kill, an innocent child. I guess I do not completely fathom the depths and motivations of evil incarnate.
My heart goes out to the families of those innocent victims.
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
Dan harming an innocent child is the most evil and senseless act that could be committed. There's no reason whatsoever for something like this to ever happen.
It's so evil even many criminal organizations won't do it. You just don't.
20 kids dead, how on earth can someone just kill a punch of kids. My heart is breaking for these families.
The son of their very teacher no less. I have no way to describe any part of this madness.Originally Posted by truecatsfan
Hopefully we can discuss gun laws without people being called idiots. The goal is to minimize events like we saw today and last week. All ideas that lead toward that goal should be discussed.
It depends on how people want to discuss gun laws. If you think that taking guns away from law-abiding citizens is the solution, you might be an ......... If you think that gun-free zones save lives, you might be an ........ If you think a semi-automatic weapon is an assault weapon, you might be an ....... If you think guns are the cause of evil people doing evil things, you might be an ............ If you think banning guns will keep evil people from killing others, you might be an ..........
The left turned this tragedy into just another reason to demand gun bans. Instead of praying for the families of those affected by this tragedy, they spent their day telling everyone who would listen just how evil gun owners are.
"After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military."
- William Burroughs
No they shouldn't. Should shooting anyone diagnosed with certain mental conditions be discussed? No? OK, so we can eliminiate "all ideas" from that statement.
Nor is "the goal" to minimize these events. It is "a goal" and a very important one, but not the only goal. Another goal is to make sure people can protect themselves and their children in home invasions or protect them when they are with them in public. There are lots of them.
I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ by engaging in taking things to absurd conclusions, but your statement beings with a false implication that our laws should be tailored to these events to the exclusion of other threats.
I've never called anyone an idiot when discussing gun laws. I've called them wrong, but I can't help that b/c they are wrong. They react to horrible acts of evil a) on the assumption that evil can be combated by reducing its options for committing evil rather than eliminating the evil, and b) by emotional overreaction that doesn't lead to good objective policies and thus end up hurting our overall safety rather than insuring it.
I can't help that the conclusions people will draw about what is the threat and what to do about it are wrong. They're not idiots, they just aren't working through the nature of human incentives at a detailed enough level.
that's how we end up with all of our mass shootings happening in "gun free zones". We pass a law based on an emotional desire and not what it means in terms of individual actions and results, and end up shocked when it fails miserably. If people thought through it they'd realize people who will go kill school children won't care about the "gun free zone" sign and thus that entire approach is a failure and a false sense of action that only takes away from better possible solutions.
Same will happen here. People will call for bans on "assault weapons" while 99% of the gun deaths in this country come from other kinds of guns. I'd laugh if it weren't so sad and in the end futile at protecting our children and citizens.
Wampus -- that's the best part. They'll pass laws that won't do a thing to change the outcome of these events, and when those fail their solution will be even more such laws. it's true in social welfare policy, gun laws, all policies. Eventually saying "hey this direction isn't working, let's look at it from a different angle" is apparently not an option.
Every law now being proposed we already had for 10 years. It did nothing, but hey let's try it again.
Whenever I run into someone online who argues for banning guns, I send them here:
http://www.americanrifleman.org/Blog...x?cid=25&id=21
They should prohibit people who want to use them illegally from owning them.
Problem solved.
Sent using Forum Runner. All typos excused.
Would banning guns keep something like this from happening?
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/...html?hpt=wo_c2
Or this?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/wo...hina.html?_r=0
or this?
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapc...ing/index.html
My point is, if guns are banned, it still wont keep these criminals from killing people. Actually it only makes it easier. They don't have to worry about someone blowing their worthless guts out.
20 kids ages 5 to 10 years old.....10 days before Christmas. I've got an 11 year old son and a 6 year old daughter. Like most with kids of that age, we've got "Santa's" gifts hidden, ready for Christmas Eve. How in God's name do you deal with that as a parent?? I've got tears in my eyes as I type this....I just cannot imagine this kind of pain.
God Bless these families, and hold them close!!!!
"It's a mere moment in a man's life between an All-Star Game and an Old-Timers Game." - Vin Scully
I cannot help but laugh. A lot of pro gun advocacy, but no one offering solutions. Glad none of you who think this way are elected officials.
For someone who is not trying to be a smarta$$ ...
Your passion for your gun makes you incapable of having an actual discussion. I know you have a 100 comebacks, but no solutions or real suggestions. We get it. You love your guns.
I take this, that you dont hunt.
Why? What in my comment has anything to do with hunting? Man, that is a real headshaker.
You want solutions? First, enforce the laws that are already on the books. Second, do away with this gun-free zone crap. Third, allow law-abiding citizens to own/carry handguns (yeah, I'm talking to you Chicago, NY City, Washington D.C. Your gun bans work really well, don't they?). There are three solutions for starters. What are yours?
Do you really think banning guns will stop a crazy person who wants to kill a bunch of people? Gun control is just another example of Liberals having no understanding of cause and effect.
Last edited by CattyWampus; 12-14-2012 at 06:23 PM.
I have worked with ATF and local law enforcement. What unenforced laws are you suggesting would stop this chaos?
And, catch your assumptions, it reveals your biases. When did I ay anything about banning guns? This discussion is very revealing.
Last edited by CattyWampus; 12-14-2012 at 06:42 PM.
Invalid link. Why not just explain what laws should be enforced to stop these violent acts?
You complain up-thread that no one was discussing solutions. Now you tell me that my assumptions show a bias. Huh? What exactly is it you want to discuss?
In regard to enforcement, my answer is simple. Felons possessing/using firearms should be charged and sentenced according to the laws on the books, rather than being turned into snitches or giving them a slap on the wrist. As far as gun laws, whether enforced or not, preventing the "chaos" like today, they won't. Neither will restricting gun rights of law abiding citizens.
Your assumption that I was suggesting a gun ban demonstrated your bias. I want to know if there is a way to reduce the incidence of violent gun attacks that we have witnessed over the past few years. But, it appears there is a myopic obsession here.
And, my answer to your second paragraph is that I have seen it happen. I have seen federal prosecutors take cases from state prosecutors to enforce the guns with crimes laws and used their influence to get tougher sentences at the state court level. I have also seen felon in possession sentencing enhancements and charges at the federal level, and witnessed prosecutors attempting to enforce laws when felons attempt to lie to purchase guns. So, (1) I am not familiar with your claim and (2) I am not sure how those laws prevent what we witnessed this past week or so, and beyond.
If you are throwing your hands in the air, I get it, but do not accept. I will look to people with answers.
Last edited by Badinage; 12-14-2012 at 07:12 PM.
We can send this to the parents of the dead kids. That will surely help the situation.
If you would not mind, I would be very interested to read your possible solutions and then we can all build from there.
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
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