Citibank enters the gun control business

[KSRBEvans]

Will not do business with any entity not following their guidelines, including selling so-called "high capacity" magazines or firearms of any kind to anyone under 21:

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/37...s-on-gun-sales

Makes sense, because who know more about fireram policy than your bank?

[badrose]

This could backfire. ��

[CitizenBBN]

How pathetic. Give it to the Left and the mobocracy they've created. The end of the Constitution and the rule of law is coming along nicely.

[CitizenBBN]

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/03/2...ack-gun-rights

[Doc]

Lets make banks "gun free zones" too

[bigsky]

I joined the NRA today. Too much gun grabber rhetoric, not enough better security for schools.

[jazyd]

How pathetic. Give it to the Left and the mobocracy they've created. The end of the Constitution and the rule of law is coming along nicely.

Its all about creating new liberal customers from the teens who will be future customers. $$$$ in the future. Why isn't that bank worried about Chicago? Ooops, bunch of poor blacks killing each other that wont' ever use Citibank is why.
Dicks business is down since they did their thing. As if they sold many of those guns to begin with. Neither foes WallyWorld sell those guns in any quantity at all. Gun shops hope all chains quit selling them, price goes up.

Democrats love it, they could care less about the shootings, but it helps their base, which means more money for them,more votes. When they worry about chicago I might take them serious.

In the meantime gun owners and those that care about the Constitution need to tell with facts. Only one school shooting was done by somene old enough to buy a gun legally and it that case the FBI failed twice, the sheriff dept failed over 20 times and the local mental health dept failed. The colorado movie theatre shooting was done by a nut case whose pyscologist knew what he was capable of and because of privacy acts failed to get the information to where it needed to be. The Conn shooter was a mental case and his mom was twice turned down to have him committed, he did not buy the guns, he took them from his moms gun case. the recent church shooter in Texas should never have been able to pass the background check, again the federal government did not do their job. And by the way, two NRA members engaged him in a shooting match and chased him down, shooting at him with a AR15. Most of the school shootings were done by under age students.

And always ask them about Chicago, why has the democrat party or any hollywood liberal done anything about that city and their 600 plus murders per year and their 4000 plus shootings.

And remind them we already have around 20,000 state, local and federal gun laws on the books currently that many liberal judges will not enforce, the federal government fails to do their part, local sheriff dept's fail to do their part,mental health dept's fail to do their job, privacy acts fail to allow information to be exchanged.

[bigsky]

Everything going on tells me the decline of the country is accelerating. Another example.

[CitizenBBN]

Everything going on tells me the decline of the country is accelerating. Another example.

Sure seems to be. I don't even get how some people in this country can be serious with the things that come out of their mouth.

But in the good news department, I now have no problem when I read 1984. I used to not completely believe that people could accept in their very nature a concept like doublespeak, but clearly it's very possible and for many even desirable.

[KeithKSR]

I can see the Citibank actions leading to a lawsuit.

[jazyd]

Everything going on tells me the decline of the country is accelerating. Another example.

Quickly

[KeithKSR]

Quickly

Isn't that what the liberal commies want?

[UKHistory]

I find Citibank’s decision to be a poor one.

Businesses Infringing one the second amendment is a dangerous thing. That seems to be their choice as a private business.

A question I pose to you, is Citibank’s efforts to make decisions for the public any more intrusive than limiting women’s healthcare like hobby lobby did for their employees?

I don’t want abortions and I don’t want school shootings. Or any shootings.

Whatever we think of them, the right to have guns and women to have control over their bodies are right under the law.

[suncat05]

I find Citibank’s decision to be a poor one.

Businesses Infringing one the second amendment is a dangerous thing. That seems to be their choice as a private business.

A question I pose to you, is Citibank’s efforts to make decisions for the public any more intrusive than limiting women’s healthcare like hobby lobby did for their employees?

I don’t want abortions and I don’t want school shootings. Or any shootings.

Whatever we think of them, the right to have guns and women to have control over their bodies are right under the law.

If we had a +1 button on this site, I would definitely give you that, History. 😉

[KeithKSR]

I find Citibank’s decision to be a poor one.

Businesses Infringing one the second amendment is a dangerous thing. That seems to be their choice as a private business.

A question I pose to you, is Citibank’s efforts to make decisions for the public any more intrusive than limiting women’s healthcare like hobby lobby did for their employees?

I don’t want abortions and I don’t want school shootings. Or any shootings.

Whatever we think of them, the right to have guns and women to have control over their bodies are right under the law.

Hobby Lobby isn't preventing its employees from obtaining abortions, they object to being forced to pay for them. Citibank, on the other hand, sought to prevent its customers from engaging in lawful transactions.

[CitizenBBN]

Hobby Lobby isn't preventing its employees from obtaining abortions, they object to being forced to pay for them. Citibank, on the other hand, sought to prevent its customers from engaging in lawful transactions.

I can see History's point in his analogy. Certainly it has an impact on a woman's choice or could if insurance doesn't cover an abortion, but in the end I think your point is correct that the difference is Hobby Lobby doesn't say you can't have one, they just don't want to be paying for it on moral grounds.

Citibank first off isn't setting policy for their employees, but for clients. Of course you can bank with someone else, but they are saying that those clients, who are federally licensed firearms dealers, must ignore those laws and follow another, more restrictive law. The problem is that there really aren't many companies in the end that control things like merchant card processing, so saying you can go elsewhere isn't completely the case. An analogy with Hobby Lobby might be if HL wanted to not serve customers who had abortions, or required any employee wanting an abortion to have parental consent below the age of 21, something that went to creating a more restrictive abortion law than we currently have with Roe v Wade.

Per the Gun Control Act of 1968, anyone who is 18 has the right to legally buy and own a firearm. In fact, by meeting some standards they can also possess handguns.

The finance companies, like the internet kings, have great power. I'm deeply concerned about a handful of powerful corporations having this kind of influence on our lives. I can find some time maybe to explain a story about how government regulation basically leads to these situations esp. in the financial world when I get some time, but the high legal barriers to entry give these corporations great protection and power and prevent alternatives that would balance such moves.

But regardless of the analogy I think we can all agree with History that government, companies, everyone needs to say out of the bedrooms and wallets of American citizens. I dislike the idea of elitist corporate boards of massive corporations far removed from the people making decisions for us as much as I loath elitist entrenched political classes far removed from the people making those decisions. How about we all make our own decisions and the ruling class butt the hell out?

[Doc]

Hobby Lobby isn't preventing its employees from obtaining abortions, they object to being forced to pay for them. Citibank, on the other hand, sought to prevent its customers from engaging in lawful transactions.

I was getting ready to type the same but a copy post is easier

[VirginiaCat]

I find Citibank’s decision to be a poor one.

Businesses Infringing one the second amendment is a dangerous thing. That seems to be their choice as a private business.

A question I pose to you, is Citibank’s efforts to make decisions for the public any more intrusive than limiting women’s healthcare like hobby lobby did for their employees?

I don’t want abortions and I don’t want school shootings. Or any shootings.

Whatever we think of them, the right to have guns and women to have control over their bodies are right under the law.

I am late to the party on this answer but I have one...at least my opinion ..

There is a big difference between the two things you discuss here.

One effects the relationship between a company and its customer. In the end, I do not think what CB has done is illegal or unconstitutional. They should be able to decide who they are doing business with (just like bakers should but I digress).

But, if a woman makes a decision to abort, she is infringing on the rights of another being...albiet unborn. What rights does the unborn child have to life?

[UKHistory]

You raise a great point as to when does life begin. Balancing the rights of a woman and her unborn child.

I am comparing the decisions of how a business makes decisions impacting employees and customers.

How do we define life. When is a soul born, developed or created. At what point does Sperm and egg gain awareness?

I’d err in the side of caution that a soul comes into being quickly. I don’t know how quickly.

I am also sensitive to the fact that women have not had a say over their own bodies or rights in general for very long

Heck we only go back to the 1970s where a wife could charge her husband with rape. Voting. Economic power—all of these things are issues that have to be considered when talking about abortion.

And let’s be honest if men carries babies, abortion would be legal and offered everywhere. Christians would still be opposed but like slot of cultural things, faith would be watered down. In my view.

This conversation is intended to compare hobby lobby and the bank.

Let’s take the abortion thing out. If there is a soul, the soul will go to heaven and evolve in a spiritual realm. Won’t know death or pain in a physical sense.

If there is no soul and it is just tissue, then it is like getting rid of an appendix or a tumor.

Also a harsh thing to say but death is better than a miserable life. We put animals out of there misery. An unwanted baby woukd be better off in heaven than a hell on earth.

[VirginiaCat]

You raise a great point as to when does life begin. Balancing the rights of a woman and her unborn child.

I am comparing the decisions of how a business makes decisions impacting employees and customers.

How do we define life. When is a soul born, developed or created. At what point does Sperm and egg gain awareness?

I’d err in the side of caution that a soul comes into being quickly. I don’t know how quickly.

I am also sensitive to the fact that women have not had a say over their own bodies or rights in general for very long

Heck we only go back to the 1970s where a wife could charge her husband with rape. Voting. Economic power—all of these things are issues that have to be considered when talking about abortion.

And let’s be honest if men carries babies, abortion would be legal and offered everywhere. Christians would still be opposed but like slot of cultural things, faith would be watered down. In my view.

This conversation is intended to compare hobby lobby and the bank.

Let’s take the abortion thing out. If there is a soul, the soul will go to heaven and evolve in a spiritual realm. Won’t know death or pain in a physical sense.

If there is no soul and it is just tissue, then it is like getting rid of an appendix or a tumor.

Also a harsh thing to say but death is better than a miserable life. We put animals out of there misery. An unwanted baby woukd be better off in heaven than a hell on earth.

Got it..and agree.

Hobby Lobby is a private company. They should have the right to determine what, if any, benefits they choose to offer...and that will effect their ability to hire and wage they have to pay in a free market system.

Broadly held companies I do not think should be given as much lattitude as my positon just stated because they are not closely held.

As for CB and its position on Gun Selling customers, I again say so be it, and another bank will step up and grab those customers and generate all the revenues and fees from them.

[CitizenBBN]

As for CB and its position on Gun Selling customers, I again say so be it, and another bank will step up and grab those customers and generate all the revenues and fees from them.

Yes and no. The problem is there isn't a free market for those services, esp. merchant card services. In the end there are only a handful of banks that actually do all the card processing, and all the others are just reselling those services. 5 or 6 of them.

And there's no easy way for companies to enter that market. The level of regulation for our corporations is so high it creates high barriers to entry in banking and financial services. The big dogs are well protected.

It's already happening to gun dealers. The government was targeting them under Obama and making banks back off, and it would be a big issue if the Left got just 3-4 of these large processors to deny services. You wouldn't get new entrants b/c the barriers are so high, you'd get the remaining 1-2 companies charging big premiums b/c you have no choice.

[UKHistory]

I am concerned by. Both examples.

Health insurance and health care are. both expensive. While I can invest in anything and save up for certain doctors employers health plans greatly dictate our doctors and the quality of health care.

And depending on where you live the best doctors don’t even take insurance.

For example I tore my Achilles’ tendon in 2008. It is was workman’s comp which afforded me a much better surgeon than my insurance. And I don’t have bad insurance.

The difference in my doctor for Achilles and ACL was night and day.

And it isn’t just as simple as find g another job or paying out of pocket. Like the bank customers it is easy to say but hard at times to do.

[VirginiaCat]

I am concerned by. Both examples.

Health insurance and health care are. both expensive. While I can invest in anything and save up for certain doctors employers health plans greatly dictate our doctors and the quality of health care.

And depending on where you live the best doctors don’t even take insurance.

For example I tore my Achilles’ tendon in 2008. It is was workman’s comp which afforded me a much better surgeon than my insurance. And I don’t have bad insurance.

The difference in my doctor for Achilles and ACL was night and day.

And it isn’t just as simple as find g another job or paying out of pocket. Like the bank customers it is easy to say but hard at times to do.

And that scenario gets 1000 times worse under a single payer system

[UKHistory]

Won’t disagree with you Va Cat.

[CitizenBBN]

Tucker Carlson with a nice discussion of the threat of merging corporatism and big government.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/04/1...orporate-power

he likens it to the Chinese system, and he's right. The chinese communist system has evolved to become much like the corporate fascism envisioned in 1930s Italy and elsewhere. A system where big companies and government dovetail, where a ruling class of elites run things politically and economically.

We aren't to that point yet, but even as a die hard Libertarian I can see that big corporations are not the "free market" or "capitalism", but are instead massive bureaucracies that fear free markets and real capitalism more than anyone.

As Carlson says, the lobbying and politics of getting banks to make these policies is even more of a "deep state" than washington. And let's face it, companies this large won't be "punished" by market forces for these moves, b/c it's almost impossible to mobilize enough against them.

This isn't new even in America. Teddy Roosevelt won an election campaigning against exactly this situation. But make no mistake, a company making gun policy is just as dangerous as a railroad with a monopoly, it just feels less threatening, but it's all the same.

[KeithKSR]

How long will it be before companies like Citi refuse to allow their cistomers to use cards to purchase firearms, ammo and other items they do not like?