OT: Kentucky Representative Dan Johnson has committed suicide

[Darrell KSR]

@JasonRileyWDRB: Bullitt County sheriff says Rep. Dan Johnson shot and killed himself. It happened on Greenwell Ford Road. His body was found on the bridge.

[Darrell KSR]

He posted this Facebook message before committing suicide today.

[ETWNAPPEL]

What is all that about?

[Darrell KSR]

As I understand it, he was accused of molesting a 17 year old at a Christmas party in 2013.

[Bakert]

Terrible news no matter the circumstances.

Just FWIW, he was under investigation for molesting a teenage girl, which I assume was what he refers to as the false accusations. Supposedly occurred in 2012 when she was 17 and he was a pastor.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/37062873/r...-mt-washington

[CitizenBBN]

I know zero about this story, but I'm deeply worried about the trend I see in the return to the rule of the mob in American society.

In decades past many hot local issues were decided less by the rule of law and reason and more by mobocracy and the rule of hot heads and reactions. Many a person was lynched (of all races), many a shop burned down over accusations before a trial could happen. It wasn't rampant, but it wasn't all that uncommon.

In our modern internet society we have actually made it nearly costless to join a virtual mob. the threshold for grabbing your torch and pitchfork has been lowered to nearly zero, so we are seeing people grabbing their moral outrage and going after people way before we have a proper legal due process.

in fact now businesses and political parties and every entity is so afraid of the mob they throw people out of careers and more just to avoid the threat of the mob.

I don't know what this man did. Only him and that girl and God know what really happened, but this isn't the first person to make headlines for killing himself just this week at least in part due to the social media forces levied against them.

It's a powerful and likely not positive force we've unleashed, allowing us to rush to our emotions and judgement easier than ever.

[kingcat]

I agree completely about social media. The worst thing to ever happen in modern society.

As for this man and the accusation, he should have been smarter than to do this which I believe points more to guilt than innocence. My guess would be that he hoped this would protect his reputation and family from the truth..not the lie.

Whatever the truth, I cant pray for or seek to justify a man who takes his own life. A "sin unto death" for which there is no forgiveness if he acted of a sound mind.

[Terry Blue]

The only unforgivable sin is the rejection of Jesus Christ as your Savior

[Padukacat]

Guys I just happened to listen to sir today and they really gave him up the road. He was apparently a hideous dude in more ways than this accusation and they went on and on about basically all of the false things he claims to be and how he has lied and cheated his way through life. I gotta feeling they prob helped push him over the edge.

[Padukacat]

Ksr actually had listeners call in if they could prove they were named dan Johnson and lived in ky, to show there was a decent dan Johnson to take his place. First one to prove it got free U.K. Tix. Man I bet they feel horrible And catch some grief over this.

[Doc]

As I understand it, he was accused of molesting a 17 year old at a Christmas party in 2013.

Yes, because the new trend is to.come out years later and make an accusation where the accused is assumed guilty rather than innocent. The accused is labelled a monster and shunned before any trial or any opportunity to defend themselves. It's a brilliant political tactic so long as one has no ethics or morals, which pretty much describes most politicians these days. Apparently Dan Johnson felt more comfortable ending his life rather than living it as an outcast based on an accusation

[kingcat]

The only unforgivable sin is the rejection of Jesus Christ as your Savior

(Please bare with me if you aren't a Christian and i wont pursue this farther.)

What greater proof of unbelief than to take ones life? A life that was bought and paid for on the cross.
And how can he now ask, or walk in forgiveness for that sin?

Believe me, (if of a sound and mature mind) it is both a sin, and unto death. And we are instructed not to pray for them. Only God knows their heart and mind.

Still, you are correct, only if you die without accepting Christ. But the option of believing is available right up unto your last breath.

[MickintheHam]

Ksr actually had listeners call in if they could prove they were named dan Johnson and lived in ky, to show there was a decent dan Johnson to take his place. First one to prove it got free U.K. Tix. Man I bet they feel horrible And catch some grief over this.

Your kidding if you think any of them feel horrible for their actions. It's their livelihood. I'll bet a dollar this incident finds its way into John Higgins law suit.

[CitizenBBN]

(Please bare with me if you aren't a Christian and i wont pursue this farther.)

What greater proof of unbelief than to take ones life? A life that was bought and paid for on the cross.
And how can he now ask, or walk in forgiveness for that sin?

Believe me, (if of a sound and mature mind) it is both a sin, and unto death. And we are instructed not to pray for them. Only God knows their heart and mind.

Still, you are correct, only if you die without accepting Christ. But the option of believing is available right up unto your last breath.

Never have understood that logic. Who is a priest or believer to say that God's plan wasn't for someone to kill themselves? I know in Catholicism it's a mortal sin, b/c you have defied God's plan for your life, but what if that was his plan?

If you get hit by a bus that's God's will, but if you are so miserable and depressed due to a systemic genetic predisposition and you just can't deal with life anymore that's not his plan? So he's not involved in people's genetic makeup but he controls traffic lights?

Seriously, not trying to be obnoxious, but that's the problem with that position.

I'm not condoning suicide, but I won't not pray for someone b/c of it. I don't know what's in their heart, and I doubt Christ wanted us to turn our backs on anyone, including nonbelievers and those who are too depressed to continue.

And yes I know you put in the "sound and mature mind" part, but that's also a circular problem. It's like the insanity defense for something like trying to kill the President. By definition it's crazy at one level, so is anyone who does it just mentally ill by definition? If it's crazy to kill oneself then none of them are of sound mind, and if we say that they can be of sound mind then you're saying depression and the overwhelming feelings that clearly drive suicide are not enough to qualify as mental instability to meet your standard.

We don't know anyone's mind, so why pray for anyone? What if the guy who died of natural causes was also a pedophile? We can't know everyone's real life who ends up on the prayer list.

IMO you pray for salvation for everyone, and hope God takes pity on their soul. Seems to me that's the Christian thing to do, and in the end it's up to God and it's not like he has to listen if he knows better.

Don't mean for this to sound like a rant, but I've long disagreed with that position of the Church and various Protestant faiths.

[kingcat]

Never have understood that logic. Who is a priest or believer to say that God's plan wasn't for someone to kill themselves? I know in Catholicism it's a mortal sin, b/c you have defied God's plan for your life, but what if that was his plan?

If you get hit by a bus that's God's will, but if you are so miserable and depressed due to a systemic genetic predisposition and you just can't deal with life anymore that's not his plan? So he's not involved in people's genetic makeup but he controls traffic lights?

Seriously, not trying to be obnoxious, but that's the problem with that position.

I'm not condoning suicide, but I won't not pray for someone b/c of it. I don't know what's in their heart, and I doubt Christ wanted us to turn our backs on anyone, including nonbelievers and those who are too depressed to continue.

And yes I know you put in the "sound and mature mind" part, but that's also a circular problem. It's like the insanity defense for something like trying to kill the President. By definition it's crazy at one level, so is anyone who does it just mentally ill by definition? If it's crazy to kill oneself then none of them are of sound mind, and if we say that they can be of sound mind then you're saying depression and the overwhelming feelings that clearly drive suicide are not enough to qualify as mental instability to meet your standard.

We don't know anyone's mind, so why pray for anyone? What if the guy who died of natural causes was also a pedophile? We can't know everyone's real life who ends up on the prayer list.

IMO you pray for salvation for everyone, and hope God takes pity on their soul. Seems to me that's the Christian thing to do, and in the end it's up to God and it's not like he has to listen if he knows better.

Don't mean for this to sound like a rant, but I've long disagreed with that position of the Church and various Protestant faiths.

Some peoples sins go before them and some sins follow after its said. That’s the difference in that this one you carry in with you.

I am also certain that God judges the heart and it’s intent, We are told however it’s a sin that leads to death and can’t be erased. Most sin is human nature, suicide is not.

Personally I think there are certain instances where the individual is not responsible for suicide. But Christians are excluded from any intercession for them

As for God willing someone to get hit by a bus and such, those are just random events even for a Christian. There are times God intercedes to accomplish something privy only to Him and that individual however.

[Catonahottinroof]

I have some prior history with him in insurance issues I've handled over the years. I'll refrain my opinion on those issues but will say this.....social media likely helped speed his demise. An accusation is now accepted as fact before truth can come out and that is becoming the norm rather than not.

[CitizenBBN]

Some peoples sins go before them and some sins follow after its said. That’s the difference in that this one you carry in with you.

I am also certain that God judges the heart and it’s intent, We are told however it’s a sin that leads to death and can’t be erased. Most sin is human nature, suicide is not.

Personally I think there are certain instances where the individual is not responsible for suicide. But Christians are excluded from any intercession for them

How is suicide not human nature?

if a person becomes so depressed and feels so lost they turn to heroin, a Christian would see that as a temptation of the devil or at least feel a need to reach out and help that lost soul. Even if they go back to it again and again you'd pray for them to find their way.

But if that same depression and hopelessness overwhelms them and they take their own life, that's not the same human nature? Not the same temptation of the devil?

[kingcat]

Human nature is survival. Suicide is contrary to that imo

[Doc]

I have some prior history with him in insurance issues I've handled over the years. I'll refrain my opinion on those issues but will say this.....social media likely helped speed his demise. An accusation is now accepted as fact before truth can come out and that is becoming the norm rather than not.

And there lies the problem. Even when vehemently denied, as Roy Moore has done, it makes no difference because those who choose to give him the benefit of the doubt (or give him the legal presumption of innocent until proven guilty) are also labelled as unsympathetic. You think those who would have supported Johnson and suggested he be afforded any presumption of innocents would not have likewise been targeted on the political stage as anything but moral cowards? Just look at what happened in AL.

I can certainly understand a person electing to end their life rather than go thru the torment of an accusation. And God has nothing to do with it.

[CitizenBBN]

Human nature is survival. Suicide is contrary to that imo

So becoming a herion addict is consistent with survival? I don't think so.

Humans do a vast array of things contrary to their survival at some level. Smoking, drugs, booze, skydiving, junk food, the list is endless.

If we're supposed to pray for those who fall under the spell of drugs there's no reason to not pray for those so overcome and without hope that they give up.

[kingcat]

The words I said don’t come from me imo. But are how I understand Christian teaching.

Suicide does not classify as just an unhealthy habit or risking your life. It is taking a life bought and paid for with the highest of prices. And an outward and final demonstration of a lack of faith in Christ...or someone "without hope"

I am sympathetic to his family and would direct my prayers toward them.

[CitizenBBN]

I'm not trying to back you up or anything, or question faith in general either. I swear.

I just have never gotten the distinction with suicide that I see in many versions of the Christian faith.

I don't see becoming a heroin addict as being any less willing to take a life than someone who just finally has enough with life.

And I don't see how it addresses someone who wants to die b/c they are terminally ill and in pain. Does God want these people to suffer and they are shortcutting his punishment in some way? Maybe they just have a disease that is going to cause pain and God isn't focused at that level of detail.

I don't mean to pound on this, I just happen to disagree with theologic treatment of suicide. I have more experience than I ever want with people who are suicidal, and a few I've lost. They werent' bad people, they didn't do anything horrible to others like lots of people who are supposed to get prayers.

They just have lost hope, no different than someone who shoots up or gets drunk to deal with their pain and demons. Maybe it's Demon Rum that takes hold of them, maybe it's something even worse like heroin, or maybe it's just life in general.

IMO there's no difference, and none of it is contrary to human nature. For whatever reason man has a nearly unlimited capacity to be miserable in his condition. How he chooses to deal with it isn't always good, but one dark path isn't really much different from another.

[kingcat]

Oh I'm not bothered by discussing it. And i do believe God is merciful and only He knows the heart of such an individual. Id have to explain what I believe as a Christian a little bit in depth to make my point, so this once I'll make an attempt here.

I know others believe differently and i don't want to offend anyone. But I want to make sure people dont think God is being cruel. His science is above ours and his physical nature intentionally beyond our understanding for the present.

The importance of "Christ in us" and the "newness of life" must not be overlooked when discussing Christians. The basic principle behind Christianity is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ which by proxy occurs for the believer by faith, salvation or as i believe..being born again (as symbolized by baptism). And it is a real and tangible thing for a Christian.

And it follows that when God the Father, who can have zero fellowship with sin, interacts with Christians, He sees only the covering Christ's sacrifice provides for sin. Every man and woman is separate from God without that covering.
And so the life and goal of a Christian is to surrender to Christ. As in "Not I, but Christ in me" This life because of our faith, appreciation and love for him is (or at least should be) now his. So the life a Christian would take is not his own but, for a believer, Christ's life since he dwells in us.
And if Christ doesn't dwell in us our faith and belief is in vain.

God's ways are different than ours, as well as his kingdom. And there is no time with God as he is both the beginning and the end, both Alpha and Omega.. And his interactions described in the bible and elsewhere are explained within that reality. Whatever he speaks is accomplished immediately with him because he is the Omega and where the future exists so does He.


We however, exist in a timeline that sees things accomplished step by step.

Study closely the lesson of Christ praying in the garden before the crucifixion, and we find Moses,( who died and an angel fought satan for his body), and Elijah (who never died but was taken up in a "fiery chariot") The three, Christ, Moses, and Elijah lived thousands of years apart and represented opposite ends of the spectrum of existence..yet stood there for the disciples to see (they fell asleep, and when Christ woke and scolded them, they built a tabernacle of rocks)
Thing is, a believer should ask where they came from.

Also, after the resurrection Christ asked Mary not to touch him because he had not yet ascended to the Father. (Heaven) Yet Christ told the thief on the cross "this day you will be with me in paradise"


My point is, our past still exists with God. A real life DVD as it were The "book of life" if you will.

And so, those things which separate us from Him must be dealt with or blotted out (deleted). Our faith is critical to that happening. And if our last act is contrary to faith in Christ and his instruction it will likely be required of us at judgement.

Still we're also taught not to say who will ascend or decend. Because our command is to love one another, and love God.

All to the best of our ability

[UKHistory]

Dan Johnson made national news by being accused of molesting the girl. His suicide was equal in media coverage.

Our system of justice is that you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Allegations of sexual assault seem to contradict that standard.

It should concern us all. The Washington Post did a thorough investigative effort on Roy Moore and the woman who alleges that the then DA behave sexually towards her when she was 14.

The story was compelling. The woman credible. She had told friends at the time what had occurred.

All that said, the article is not proof. The statute of limitations had passed unfortunately. So what do you do? There must be a balance to take allegations seriously and honoring the rights of the accused. That is a lot easier to say than to do.

And of course there are varying degrees of sexual harassment and assault. The difference from a crude comment coming from a man on the street as opposed to one's colleague or boss impacts your quality of life and checkbook.

Most of us on here discussing this are men and generally are of the gender doing the assaulting and not getting assaulted.

Many times women, for a variety of reasons (some quite legitimate) don't raise an issue for some time. And there are examples of women crying wolf (the married woman who accused Chuck Hayes comes to mind).

No easy way figure this out. Play nice; be respectful. If a 17 year old makes your heart flutter get a countdown clock and wait til she is 18 and be respectful.

I do think many women feel threatened and frustrated by men. As citizens, women have not had the right to vote for 100 years. For women of color the right to actually vote was won much later in our history.

That is the backdrop to this issue and an element that can't be ignored.