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  1. #31

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Quote Originally Posted by ETWNAPPEL View Post
    For you maybe. Not others
    I think its those two birds making out on your hat that have you so mixed up...
    Go Cats!

  2. #32

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Quote Originally Posted by LakeCat View Post
    For the hundred darn time the complaint is about Stoops getting a year extension that will be paying him 5 freaking million in 2022 everytime he manages 7 wins. CBNN has explained this in detail how it is stupid for UK to set the bar that low for a automatic extension. It is not about wins this year or any year. IT IS ABOUT THE AUTOMATIC EXTENSION.
    What do you think a coach in a power conference will be making in 2022?

    If Stoops left today, what do you think the terms of a contract for a new coach would be? Do you think that they would sign a coach to a 5 year deal? What would THAT coach be making in 2022?

    Do you not think that if Stoops averages 7 wins per season that he wouldn't be able to go and get an equivalent job for more pay?

    Do you not think that UK isn't in a position where they'd HAVE to overpay for a coach today? Why not at least do that for the coach that has succeeded, that you already have in place, that's delivering on what he was hired to do.

    I feel like most of the contract haters automatically assume that Stoops and his staff will stop improving once we hit 7 wins. Isn't his contract structured to get more dollars if he wins even more?

    As long as he keeps winning, why do we care what he makes? Why don't we worry about the contract if Stoops fails to live up to it at some point in time. That's not where we are yet.

  3. #33

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    I've been replying to people, so now I'm going to answer the question of the thread.

    What does it mean to "not accept 7 wins and a bowl"?

    In my opinion it means that people have an unrealsitic vision of who we are as a program, where we've been and the difficulties it takes to become elite. The notion that UK would ever be a serious contender for the SEC Championship was, is and most likely will always be a low probability event. I feel like people are looking at this season too emotionally, instead of rationally.

    We're not a program yet that plays 10 coin flip games and go 10-0 in them, but when people hang their arguments and complaints on losses like Florida and Ole Miss, I think they lose sight of the fact that we win games like that too. More of them, actually.

    I just don't understand why people want to rush and be SO critical of the process. When you go from a bad program to a championship program, there are stops along the way. If there's not, that ultimate success is fools gold.

    Take a look at this season, do you watch this team and think a 9-1, elite bowl team? I don't. So, what impact does that have on where we go from here? I say none. We'd just get destroyed by a legitimate opponent in a bowl game, whereas now, we're going to a bowl game that's another coin flip game. Based on what we've done the past couple of seasons, I really like our chances in that.

    We'll finish with 7,8 or 9 wins. That's a really good, if not GREAT season, by UK standards. Let's enjoy that for a brief minute, then we can talk about where we go from here and how to get to that next level, PLUS, not assume that the program is content with 7 wins moving forward or playing what if this or that happened.

  4. #34

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    “The notion that UK would ever be a serious contender for the SEC Championship was, is and most likely will always be a low probability event.”

    This kind of stuff drives me f’ing nuts. Wth can’t we expect to contend for SEC championships? If our fans had the same attitude about contending for basketball championships we wouldn’t ever win another one of those either.
    Don't panic

  5. #35

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catfan73 View Post
    “The notion that UK would ever be a serious contender for the SEC Championship was, is and most likely will always be a low probability event.”

    This kind of stuff drives me f’ing nuts. Wth can’t we expect to contend for SEC championships? If our fans had the same attitude about contending for basketball championships we wouldn’t ever win another one of those either.
    I’m with you 💯 on this win. We can contend. We can compete. Heck we could have this season.

  6. #36

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catfan73 View Post
    “The notion that UK would ever be a serious contender for the SEC Championship was, is and most likely will always be a low probability event.”

    This kind of stuff drives me f’ing nuts. Wth can’t we expect to contend for SEC championships? If our fans had the same attitude about contending for basketball championships we wouldn’t ever win another one of those either.
    You can expect it all you want. It's just not realistic right now. That's why I said it's a low probability event. It doesn't mean we can't get there sooner than later.

    There's two things that you have said that I completely mind boggling.

    One, why are you comparing football to basketball? We're a blue blood. Arguably THE best college basketball program. On the other end, we're historically one of the worst football programs in a power conference. It would be like if Alabama fans started the nonsensical argument that they should be competing for an SEC basketball championship year after year. That is also a low probability event.

    Second, why set yourself up for an expectation of a low probability result? Do you really think it's realistic that just 4.5 years after Stoops arrival after being horrible that it's time to start expecting us to compete for an SEC Championship? It's crazy.

    So, you're going to be driven f'n nuts if you think people are just going to assume that we should be competing for a championship at this stage of a rebuild. How about prove that you can go to a few bowl games first, then reset expectations.

    I want to see steady, increasing results on the football field. Then I'll raise my expectations.

  7. #37

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Quote Originally Posted by ETWNAPPEL View Post
    I’m with you �� on this win. We can contend. We can compete. Heck we could have this season.
    Only with a perfect storm.

    You actually see a championship team on the field when you watch UK football this season?

    I don't.

  8. #38

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Talent wise maybe...coaching wise nada....
    Quote Originally Posted by StuBleedsBlue2 View Post
    Only with a perfect storm.

    You actually see a championship team on the field when you watch UK football this season?

    I don't.

  9. #39

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Really, whatever position one takes, This thread itself is a testament to the validity of the discussion.
    No wrong or right positions that I see

    "Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes." — Jack Handey ,

  10. #40

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Quote Originally Posted by StuBleedsBlue2 View Post
    Only with a perfect storm.

    You actually see a championship team on the field when you watch UK football this season?

    I don't.
    We are 2 coaching mistakes from being 9-1 and playing for the SEC championship game.

    - 11 men on the field against Florida
    - Use the clock before snapping the ball against Ole Miss.

    We ARE that close. We have the talent on this team.

  11. #41
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    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Quote Originally Posted by StuBleedsBlue2 View Post
    What do you think a coach in a power conference will be making in 2022?

    If Stoops left today, what do you think the terms of a contract for a new coach would be? Do you think that they would sign a coach to a 5 year deal? What would THAT coach be making in 2022?

    Do you not think that if Stoops averages 7 wins per season that he wouldn't be able to go and get an equivalent job for more pay?

    Do you not think that UK isn't in a position where they'd HAVE to overpay for a coach today? Why not at least do that for the coach that has succeeded, that you already have in place, that's delivering on what he was hired to do.

    I feel like most of the contract haters automatically assume that Stoops and his staff will stop improving once we hit 7 wins. Isn't his contract structured to get more dollars if he wins even more?

    As long as he keeps winning, why do we care what he makes? Why don't we worry about the contract if Stoops fails to live up to it at some point in time. That's not where we are yet.
    Well let's look at Gary Patterson at TCU. His contract was extended last year through 2022 at a base salary of 4.75 million with very little bonuses. He has been at TCU since 2000. Before his extension in 2016 he went 12-1 in 2014 and 11-2 in 2015 and was ranked #2 in the AP in 2015. His overall record at TCU is 157-55 and 9-6 in bowl games. That is proven performance and thus a nice extension. I don't what to say if you don't think MB handed Stoops a contract that just doesn't match his performance to date and is on par with Patterson's without one-tenth the record Gary has.

  12. #42
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    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Quote Originally Posted by StuBleedsBlue2 View Post
    I've been replying to people, so now I'm going to answer the question of the thread.

    What does it mean to "not accept 7 wins and a bowl"?

    In my opinion it means that people have an unrealsitic vision of who we are as a program, where we've been and the difficulties it takes to become elite. The notion that UK would ever be a serious contender for the SEC Championship was, is and most likely will always be a low probability event. I feel like people are looking at this season too emotionally, instead of rationally.

    We're not a program yet that plays 10 coin flip games and go 10-0 in them, but when people hang their arguments and complaints on losses like Florida and Ole Miss, I think they lose sight of the fact that we win games like that too. More of them, actually.

    I just don't understand why people want to rush and be SO critical of the process. When you go from a bad program to a championship program, there are stops along the way. If there's not, that ultimate success is fools gold.

    Take a look at this season, do you watch this team and think a 9-1, elite bowl team? I don't. So, what impact does that have on where we go from here? I say none. We'd just get destroyed by a legitimate opponent in a bowl game, whereas now, we're going to a bowl game that's another coin flip game. Based on what we've done the past couple of seasons, I really like our chances in that.

    We'll finish with 7,8 or 9 wins. That's a really good, if not GREAT season, by UK standards. Let's enjoy that for a brief minute, then we can talk about where we go from here and how to get to that next level, PLUS, not assume that the program is content with 7 wins moving forward or playing what if this or that happened.
    Well stated.
    "Calipari’s Young Blue Machine marches on, slashing and burning and winning."
    - Bill Simmons.

  13. #43

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof View Post
    No no no. It's been 40 years since they've sniffed an SEC title. We've been more than patient...
    And it is that history that will keep us from making huge changes to the program in quick steps. We must Build..baby steps... 4 wins, to 5 wins, to 6 -7 wins for a few years, hopefully jumping to 8 or 9 every now and then. Then, we may be able to put steps towards those bigger goals.

  14. #44

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Quote Originally Posted by LakeCat View Post
    Well let's look at Gary Patterson at TCU. His contract was extended last year through 2022 at a base salary of 4.75 million with very little bonuses. He has been at TCU since 2000. Before his extension in 2016 he went 12-1 in 2014 and 11-2 in 2015 and was ranked #2 in the AP in 2015. His overall record at TCU is 157-55 and 9-6 in bowl games. That is proven performance and thus a nice extension. I don't what to say if you don't think MB handed Stoops a contract that just doesn't match his performance to date and is on par with Patterson's without one-tenth the record Gary has.
    You see. That's the problem.

    TCU and UK are VERY different programs. We want to be TCU, but we're UK. How do you get there? Invest in your staff.

  15. #45
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    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Quote Originally Posted by StuBleedsBlue2 View Post
    You see. That's the problem.

    TCU and UK are VERY different programs. We want to be TCU, but we're UK. How do you get there? Invest in your staff.
    We just see things different. I believe MB jumped the gun with this extension deal which started when Stoops went 5-1 in 2015. Of course we know he then lost 6 in a row. I assume MB thought Stoops would be such a hot commodity that he had to give him the "kitchen sink" to lock him in. To me that was very unwise. Stoops was unproven then and the jury is still out on him now. Yes, things are better than the Joker Era, but then how could they not be. I just look at TCU and believe their AD awarded long term, proven performance with a contract which is essentially the same to Stoops. Surely you don't put Stoops in the same category as Gary Patterson. My fear, and looking at next year's schedule and the uncertainty at QB we drop below 6 wins. Then if the SEC East gets back to it's traditional strength we might not get to 6 wins for awhile. If that plays out the next two years and recruiting has waned you would have to pay about 13 million to fire Stoops. There is where I have a problem with this 7 win automatic extension. You have economically locked us into Stoops for at least the next 3-4 years even if the bottom falls out of the program. I have followed UK football long enough to know that can easily happen. Once again, I am ok with Stoops but would love to have more options if he flames out.

  16. #46

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    I don,t know one fan who wouldn,t love to go undefeated and win the National Championship. Since we haven,t won more than 7 games in 33 years, I don,t think the contract is completely Un reasonable. I believe his contract would be extended 2 years if we won 10 games, which hasn,t been done in 40 years and we cheated then. 33 years is a long time folks. Stoops base salary is 11th best in the league, incentives are a way to make his compensation more competitive. He,s now the longest tenured coach in the East

  17. #47

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    UK won 8 games in 06 and 07....

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Blue View Post
    I don,t know one fan who wouldn,t love to go undefeated and win the National Championship. Since we haven,t won more than 7 games in 33 years, I don,t think the contract is completely Un reasonable. I believe his contract would be extended 2 years if we won 10 games, which hasn,t been done in 40 years and we cheated then. 33 years is a long time folks. Stoops base salary is 11th best in the league, incentives are a way to make his compensation more competitive. He,s now the longest tenured coach in the East

  18. #48

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof View Post
    UK won 8 games in 06 and 07....
    I would assume he's talking pre-bowl game.

  19. #49

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Of course, we haven,t won 8 regular season games since 1984. A bowl game is a reward for the regular season
    While nice to win a bowl game, the outcome is pretty inconsequential overall. More and more top players are electing to not even play in bowl games

  20. #50
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    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Quote Originally Posted by LakeCat View Post
    We just see things different. I believe MB jumped the gun with this extension deal which started when Stoops went 5-1 in 2015. Of course we know he then lost 6 in a row. I assume MB thought Stoops would be such a hot commodity that he had to give him the "kitchen sink" to lock him in. To me that was very unwise.
    And if he doesn't give him the extension, we finish that season 8-4 and go 9-3 the next and Stoops leaves, that too would have been MBs fault. It's real easy looking in a rear view mirror.
    "Calipari’s Young Blue Machine marches on, slashing and burning and winning."
    - Bill Simmons.

  21. #51
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    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakert View Post
    And if he doesn't give him the extension, we finish that season 8-4 and go 9-3 the next and Stoops leaves, that too would have been MBs fault. It's real easy looking in a rear view mirror.
    Totally, completely disagree with your viewpoint. The extension is being given out of fear of losing something. In any negotiation where you operate from fear you tend to make suboptimal decisions. But you help raise a good point. MB is a very poor negotiator because he is fearful of losing. Confidence makes for winners in life.
    Real Fan since 1958

  22. #52

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Quote Originally Posted by LakeCat View Post
    We just see things different. I believe MB jumped the gun with this extension deal which started when Stoops went 5-1 in 2015. Of course we know he then lost 6 in a row. I assume MB thought Stoops would be such a hot commodity that he had to give him the "kitchen sink" to lock him in. To me that was very unwise. Stoops was unproven then and the jury is still out on him now. Yes, things are better than the Joker Era, but then how could they not be. I just look at TCU and believe their AD awarded long term, proven performance with a contract which is essentially the same to Stoops. Surely you don't put Stoops in the same category as Gary Patterson. My fear, and looking at next year's schedule and the uncertainty at QB we drop below 6 wins. Then if the SEC East gets back to it's traditional strength we might not get to 6 wins for awhile. If that plays out the next two years and recruiting has waned you would have to pay about 13 million to fire Stoops. There is where I have a problem with this 7 win automatic extension. You have economically locked us into Stoops for at least the next 3-4 years even if the bottom falls out of the program. I have followed UK football long enough to know that can easily happen. Once again, I am ok with Stoops but would love to have more options if he flames out.
    I agree that Barnhart jumped the gun, but where I fundamentally disagree with you is that the past is predictive of the future. There's NOTHING yet to indicate that we're on a path back down.

    My advice is stop looking at the downside and embracing your fears. Why don't you focus on the positives of the last few years and enjoy those. Let's just say for a minute that you end up being right, then what do you have? Negativity during the good times and depression during the bad?

    Back to your TCU comparison, I just have to reiterate that you're talking about two completely different programs. You just can't make that comparison. Who's going to take the UK job at anything LESS than what Stoops is making and how can you be convinced that we would be seeing the same results?

  23. #53

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Quote Originally Posted by MickintheHam View Post
    Totally, completely disagree with your viewpoint. The extension is being given out of fear of losing something. In any negotiation where you operate from fear you tend to make suboptimal decisions. But you help raise a good point. MB is a very poor negotiator because he is fearful of losing. Confidence makes for winners in life.
    You don't think at all that the line of thinking may be to actually create some stability with a new culture, one of winning?

    If that is the case(which is what I believe), there's a premium for that and that's what that contract represents. Sure, there's a risk, but the UK football program is not in a place where a coach looks at it like an established place where you can be successful. With greater risks comes greater costs. The failure of Joker increased that premium too.

  24. #54

    Re: What does it mean to “not accept 7 wins and a bowl”?

    Quote Originally Posted by LakeCat View Post
    Well let's look at Gary Patterson at TCU. His contract was extended last year through 2022 at a base salary of 4.75 million with very little bonuses. He has been at TCU since 2000. Before his extension in 2016 he went 12-1 in 2014 and 11-2 in 2015 and was ranked #2 in the AP in 2015. His overall record at TCU is 157-55 and 9-6 in bowl games. That is proven performance and thus a nice extension. I don't what to say if you don't think MB handed Stoops a contract that just doesn't match his performance to date and is on par with Patterson's without one-tenth the record Gary has.
    Lets look at Gary Patterson and TCU. I do not necessarily agree it is a valid comparison given the conference affiliations since 200 and who they have played but lets run with it.

    Patterson took over From Granchione in 2000 at team that was 10-2 in the WAC. Patterson was 6-6 the next year as his first full year head coach. in 2004 he was 5-6 after 2 straight 10 win seasons all this in CUSA. Point is he has had a lot of 10+ win season in CUSA, MW, WAC but now lets look at Big 12. in 2012 he was 7-6. in 2013 he was 4-8. Based on this board he should have been fired. Oh, and in 2016 he was 6-7

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