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  1. #1
    Fab Five Darryl's Avatar
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    When Schools Appeal Infractions Penalties; NCAA Should ADD Extra Sanctions

    This delaying tactic is absurd

    Darryl

  2. #2
    Fiddlin' Five badrose's Avatar
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    Re: When Schools Appeal Infractions Penalties; NCAA Should ADD Extra Sanctions

    I agree. It smacks of guilt. If innocent, they'd want to clear it up publicly right away.
    Cool as a rule, but sometimes bad is bad.

  3. #3

    Re: When Schools Appeal Infractions Penalties; NCAA Should ADD Extra Sanctions

    I don't agree with that at all. The right to appeal is a crucial, necessary part of any punishment process. It shouldn't be done away with just because some appeals are meritless. It shouldn't be done away with even if 95% of appeals are meritless.

    The NCAA got it right in the UofL case, but there have been numerous cases where they did a terrible job. The lack of an appeals process would lead to even worse overreaching by the NCAA than we've already seen.

    Memphis appealed the ridiculous penalties they got for the Derrick Rose situation. Should they have added to their penalties?

  4. #4
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    Re: When Schools Appeal Infractions Penalties; NCAA Should ADD Extra Sanctions

    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl View Post
    This delaying tactic is absurd

    Darryl
    I see the point and think schools like UNC really exploit that. I actually think that appeals, especially with an organization like the NCAA, are very important.

    I can't wait for UofL to lose the banners and UNC to get its due.

    If we read the rules and see what UNC does we can see some loopholes to remove.
    keep hope alive; invoke 25

  5. #5
    Fab Five Darryl's Avatar
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    Re: When Schools Appeal Infractions Penalties; NCAA Should ADD Extra Sanctions

    When there is NO doubt of a school's guilt I stand by my post

    Darryl

  6. #6
    Fiddlin' Five
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    Re: When Schools Appeal Infractions Penalties; NCAA Should ADD Extra Sanctions

    I agree with dtalbersjr. If the appeal has merit, then the school should have that process available to them.
    On the other hand, as in the case of UNC, they have deliberately and unnecessarily made this process too long and attempted to draw attention away from the true meaning of the investigation.
    U of L pretty much owned up to their transgressions, although they still want to argue the point on the sanctions. That's their right, although I don't see them winning any of their appeal.
    UNC, on the other hand, and just like Duke did before them, have tried to make this situation play out over years and years of delaying tactics. THAT should help the NCAA assess and level the appropriate penalties for their transgressions. But of course, that outcome remains to be seen.
    And I still have zero faith that the NCAA does anything meaningful to UNC. And if it does not act in an appropriate manner, that will be the death knell of the NCAA as a governing body over athletics. JMHO.
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  7. #7
    Fiddlin' Five badrose's Avatar
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    Re: When Schools Appeal Infractions Penalties; NCAA Should ADD Extra Sanctions

    Quote Originally Posted by dtalbersjr View Post
    I don't agree with that at all. The right to appeal is a crucial, necessary part of any punishment process. It shouldn't be done away with just because some appeals are meritless. It shouldn't be done away with even if 95% of appeals are meritless.

    The NCAA got it right in the UofL case, but there have been numerous cases where they did a terrible job. The lack of an appeals process would lead to even worse overreaching by the NCAA than we've already seen.

    Memphis appealed the ridiculous penalties they got for the Derrick Rose situation. Should they have added to their penalties?
    I have no problem with appeals. It's the constant delaying when the facts are overwhelming.
    Cool as a rule, but sometimes bad is bad.

  8. #8

    When Schools Appeal Infractions Penalties; NCAA Should ADD Extra Sanctions

    Allow the appeals process to stand but if the appeal fails then perhaps there should be an evaluation of penalizing the party based on what transpired during the appeal.

    For instance unc had they not ran through all of stall tactics they might have been on a post season ban had they not appealed. So go ahead and nullify their achievements during the period that they stalled/appealed. If they were to win the appeal allow them to keep what they achieved.


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  9. #9
    Fab Five dan_bgblue's Avatar
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    Re: When Schools Appeal Infractions Penalties; NCAA Should ADD Extra Sanctions

    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl View Post
    When there is NO doubt of a school's guilt I stand by my post

    Darryl
    In the UL case, the appeal is not about the findings of whether they did it or not, they have admitted guilt. The appeal is about the punishment. I think they should have the right to appeal the decision on punishment.

    If I go to court, just in front of a judge, to appeal a minor speeding ticket, 10 mph over the posted limit and not in a school zone or construction site, and the evidence is against me, I expect the judge to impose penalties on me for my "crime". If his ruling is that I pay the fine and spend 6 months in jail then I think I should have the right to appeal his decision on the penalty.
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  10. #10
    Fiddlin' Five badrose's Avatar
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    Re: When Schools Appeal Infractions Penalties; NCAA Should ADD Extra Sanctions

    I could see UL wanting to await the UNC outcome first so the punishment would be relevant in scale.
    Cool as a rule, but sometimes bad is bad.

  11. #11

    Re: When Schools Appeal Infractions Penalties; NCAA Should ADD Extra Sanctions

    I support the appeals process. It's not about getting it done fast it's about getting it done right.

  12. #12
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    Re: When Schools Appeal Infractions Penalties; NCAA Should ADD Extra Sanctions

    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl View Post
    When there is NO doubt of a school's guilt I stand by my post

    Darryl
    Having an appeal is important step even in a voluntary organization for due process.

    I hope the appeal has no listeners and would prefer the NCAA be more objective and consistent in its rulings.
    keep hope alive; invoke 25

  13. #13

    Re: When Schools Appeal Infractions Penalties; NCAA Should ADD Extra Sanctions

    Quote Originally Posted by badrose View Post
    I could see UL wanting to await the UNC outcome first so the punishment would be relevant in scale.
    I absolutely loathe UofL. I'd be thrilled if they shut the entire athletic program down, and I'd laugh at my family and friends if they did.

    That said, they've done nothing wrong with how they've handled the investigation. They've cooperated, they haven't asked for extensions, they've filed everything on time. Their arguments are garbage, but that's because they got caught using hookers to recruit. They had no arguments to make.

    UNC is a completely different story. Their actions in response to and during the investigation are almost as bad as what gave rise to the investigation.

  14. #14

    Re: When Schools Appeal Infractions Penalties; NCAA Should ADD Extra Sanctions

    D, In UNC's case i agree it is absurd!

    In UL's case, I say let them keep making fools of themselves! The damage is already done.

  15. #15
    Rupp's Runt
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    Re: When Schools Appeal Infractions Penalties; NCAA Should ADD Extra Sanctions

    Quote Originally Posted by dtalbersjr View Post
    UNC is a completely different story. Their actions in response to and during the investigation are almost as bad as what gave rise to the investigation.
    And if wonder if (1) the NCAA may not end up punishing them harder (to Darryl's point) due to their tactics and (2) they would not have been better off from a PR standpoint just taking their medicine and moving on.

    I was a fan of how Roselle handled the UK investigation in the 1980s as I always thought the NCAA would crush us if we chose to fight. In fact, IIRC, the NCAA noted our cooperation as one reason we didn't get the death penalty.

    So while I would never begrudge an institution the right to appeal and NCAA decision, at the same time I believe it is in any institution's best interests to take a long look at how fighting balances getting it behind them as soon as possible.
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  16. #16
    Fiddlin' Five badrose's Avatar
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    Re: When Schools Appeal Infractions Penalties; NCAA Should ADD Extra Sanctions

    The image of Jordan and Emmert walking together having a big laugh gives me pause.
    Cool as a rule, but sometimes bad is bad.

  17. #17
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    Re: When Schools Appeal Infractions Penalties; NCAA Should ADD Extra Sanctions

    The image of his airiness and mayor mccheese should give pause. Sankey's stance has made UNC gulp though and that is good.

    UofL can't receive additional or more severe penalties so this effort on their part makes sense.

    UofL wants to focus on the money and their is logic. But it doesn't take into context the duration of the offenses, their magnitude, the criminality of it, or the lack of oversight.

    Again if there is a mom or two or an a good father on the appeal board, the banners are coming down. The fact that UofL is willing to sacrifice the 14 and 15 teams really shows their desperation.
    keep hope alive; invoke 25

  18. #18

    Re: When Schools Appeal Infractions Penalties; NCAA Should ADD Extra Sanctions

    Quote Originally Posted by UKHistory View Post
    The image of his airiness and mayor mccheese should give pause. Sankey's stance has made UNC gulp though and that is good.

    UofL can't receive additional or more severe penalties so this effort on their part makes sense.

    UofL wants to focus on the money and their is logic. But it doesn't take into context the duration of the offenses, their magnitude, the criminality of it, or the lack of oversight.

    Again if there is a mom or two or an a good father on the appeal board, the banners are coming down. The fact that UofL is willing to sacrifice the 14 and 15 teams really shows their desperation.
    Louisville's appeal will be denied owing to the fact that the grossest of the offenses were perpetrated by members of the coaching staff. Had it been a rogue booster and done off campus, then I'm certain the punishment wouldn't be so harsh. In fact, I'm certain the NCAA went easy in not assessing LOIC, which they easily could have justified.

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