Recent poll re postponing the election

[UKHistory]

A recent poll published in The Washington Post found 52% of republicans would be in favor of postponing the 2020 election if the there was a voting problem.

One of my great fears about trump is that he won't hold an election in 2020. How open are people here to the notion of not holding an election in 2020?

[CitizenBBN]

History, I love you, but man come off the ledge and bring the other half of the country in with you. I know a lot of people out there have those fears, but seriously they're up there with the 2am AM radio stuff out there when Obama was President.

Obama was NOT stockpiling ammo with DHS in order to seize control and prevent the 2016 election. It was never going to happen. He never had some secret plan to declare martial law. All of these things were active theories, they just never got discussed b/c the conservative media rightly discounted them and the liberal media would never report them.

Likewise, Trump is not the anti-Christ sent here to seize control and overthrow American democracy and suspend an election.

We've never missed an election, and while Obama was a socialist and Trump is personally an ass-hat, neither of those even comes close to the worst circumstances under which we've had elections.

The only difference between the Obama conspiracies and the Trump conspiracies is the liberal media in this country is gleefully reporting absolutely left field stuff as news, when no one would do that with the same level of stuff about Obama.

People need to stop believing everything this media puts out there, it's just not true. It's utterly true Trump is decidedly unlikeable and crass and the rest, but it's not true that we're facing some dire threat to democracy from him. Any more than we were facing one with Obama. Obama was doing his best to make us European socialists but he wasn't going to stage a coup (as if anyone with a gun would support him anyway), and neither is Trump.

Relax. There wont' be any voting problems big enough to not have our usual elections. At worst with some kind of hack that exposes a disaster in machines, a near impossibility, your'e taking days and maybe weeks, not months or years, and I can't foresee any situation where even that occurs.

We've had elections in the middle of the Civil War, in the middle of world wars. We've survived far worse than Obama's socialism and Trump's asshole-ism. It's going to be fine.

[KeithKSR]

Unfounded fears.

[Catonahottinroof]

Geez.....

[UKHistory]

I will step off the ledge a minute. But please know a poll was taken and published in USA today and the Washington post that 52% of republicans would be in favor of postponing an election under certain circumstances.

Trump publicly stated prior to the election the system was rigged. He doesn't accept that he lost the popular vote. The president has been the sorest winner that I have ever seen.

Now we have a special election commission with three years to potentially remove voters that are unfriendly to the president. If there is real voter fraud, fine.

Mainstream republicans like McConnell don't think there is. The president rails against the party and its "arcane" measures. Those arcane procedures allow for thoughtful dialogue and God forbid compromise.

Then there is the president's Richard Pryor impersonation. Every outrageous comment is defended that it is his sense of humor

How convenient.

I am glad that the good folks here are not a part of the 52% of polled republican who would be willing defer an election.

I will get off this area and not post here on this topic for a while. If we hold an election in 2020 and there has not been rampant voter suppression I wil admit I was wrong. Gladly.

If I am right, I call dibs on being the real life Winston Smith for America's reenactment of 1984.

I love this country and I will defend the Constitution with my every breath. If I am wrong about trump and I hope I am, I will say so.

Back to hoops and movie quotes.

[UKHistory]

Citizen

We really need to meet in person one of these days. You are a good man.

[kingcat]

September 2, 2015

Barack Obama Planning To Cancel 2016 Election? Alex Jones, Larry Nichols Claim Obama Wants To Set Up ‘Islamic Caliphate’ In America

https://www.infowars.com/black-conse...016-elections/

https://www.mrconservative.com/2015/...2016-election/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatc...2016-election/

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/a...park-race-war/

..and on and on.. Some here believed it too

[kingcat]

“The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.”.. Donald Trump 2012

“He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country” ..Trump after Obama's victory


Agree with it or not, anyone that doesn't believe POTUS wants too drastically roll back voting rights in this country is deceiving themselves. From one perspective his is an attack on democracy itself. Using a similar argument that our enemies abroad have decried for decades.
That democratic elections are, can be, and maybe even should be rigged....even from without

Yet many Americans could still care less. A strange and powerful delusion imho.


But that's just one opinion among many.

[CitizenBBN]

“The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.”.. Donald Trump 2012

“He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country” ..Trump after Obama's victory


Agree with it or not, anyone that doesn't believe POTUS wants too drastically roll back voting rights in this country is deceiving themselves. From one perspective his is an attack on democracy itself. Using a similar argument that our enemies abroad have decried for decades.
That democratic elections are, can be, and maybe even should be rigged....even from without

Yet many Americans could still care less. A strange and powerful delusion imho.


But that's just one opinion among many.

Really? A lot of people on the left have spoken against the Electoral College. that's not even news, and a number of states have actually passed laws to try to short circuit the process. Are all those legislatures and Governors all in on the conspiracy to remove our rights?

I've laid it out elsewhere, and while I doubt voter fraud is as high as Trump claims, it's certainly within the realm of possibility and there is NO doubt there is some level of it in this country.

Procedures in kentucky are surprisingly tight, in fact we have done things for decades that are being ruled illegal as other states try to follow suit. Simple, basic things like showing an ID to prove you are who you are when you go vote. You know, the same thing you have to do to buy smokes or cash a check, etc.

But there are states with no id rules, states with no rules at all, states with absentee balloting that is easy to defraud, etc. There are LOTS of gaps in the system, and we have proof of it on small scales.

The idea of looking at it to see if the system is working is completely valid. My question would be what are people so afraid of? Someone can only be removed if they are a felon, registered multiple places, dead, etc. What suppression are we fearing here exactly?

No, what people in power fear is that Trump is right, and there are 2-3 million (99.99% Democrat) voters out there who are voting who shouldn't be. They don't want those people found.

My bet is there are at least 500,000 or so, and most of them are probably done through falsely filled in absentee ballots. But the commission will never uncover the people who are canvassed, "assisted" in getting registered and then "assisted" in filling it out, etc. There are near armies of people out there, now on both sides, going door to door to help get votes for their side, and no way are they not "helping" those folks to vote the right way.

[CitizenBBN]

September 2, 2015

Barack Obama Planning To Cancel 2016 Election? Alex Jones, Larry Nichols Claim Obama Wants To Set Up ‘Islamic Caliphate’ In America

https://www.infowars.com/black-conse...016-elections/

https://www.mrconservative.com/2015/...2016-election/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatc...2016-election/

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/a...park-race-war/

..and on and on.. Some here believed it too

And some on here believe Trump is a Russian agent and on a mission to destroy democracy and the Constitution. Which was my point.

The two theories are equivalent. The only difference is that none of what you posted made it out of the most hard right websites and wee hours talk shows. The theories on Trump are presented on the networks, CNN, MSNBC, WaPo and the NYT as if they are real threats.

[kingcat]

Hehe. Those reports and others were certainly heralded here, and without any argument as I recall from the right.

You cleverly misrepresent the positions taken here by both sides. Classic arguments abound.
But that's alright..you love debate and all that entails. I certainly understand directing an argument to a stalemate if a winning position can't be obtained.

But I am honestly not attempting to win any argument. I'd much prefer to be wrong

[kingcat]

The theories on Trump are represented in a negative light nearly worldwide and for the most part, positively only from the far right perspective and those yet unwilling to question their support for the man in any way. That's fine, and I hope we don't have to see just how far the line of impropriety must be moved to accommodate such trust. Still, that is not the point of anything I have stated here and I wont move my argument in that direction. Trump is heralded and greatly admired here on this board. At some point the fake news thing will have run its course and facts will expose the truth completely.
I'm very confident Trump personally is not a Russian agent by the way.

It's a time for unity in the face of present danger and it is best to allow the FBI to do its work. I completely trust in that and currently support the president making wise and prudent decisions to escape calamity.

[Catonahottinroof]

He is not heralded by that many here....
As a Libertarian I can tell you there will never be a "your guy" as president for me. However, Trump is being railed unfairly in many respects and many are too blind to see the bias applied to make it that way.

[KeithKSR]

When the number of people voting or registered to vote exceeds those living in a jurisdiction who are eligible to vote there are serious voter fraud issues.

[CitizenBBN]

Trump is heralded and greatly admired here on this board.

OK, this I'm calling out. Show me that "greatly admired" thing from people here.

I don't know anyone who "admires" him. I certainly don't. i've called him every name we can on this board within the rules. As a person he's an ass, pompous, full of it and himself, etc.

Almost everyone I know who voted for him held their nose to one degree or another to do so. They did it b/c they hope he will put us on a different path and live up to his promises. Even those are a mixed bag, but then again we had the two most awful choices for an election since at least the 1800s.

I only "support" him as far as I support the direction of certain policies.

My defense of him is more to correct the record of absolute absurdity I now see in the "mainstream" media. yes he's a lot of bad things, but this is an over the top action by the left to try to undo an election where Trump, despite all his faults, won b/c the Democratic party has shifted completely out of touch with vast swaths of America.

For example this topic of voter fraud. Trump sets up a commission to examine the fact that there are legitimate questions about our election process, and yes there are documented if sparse cases of it happening along with a lot of obvious holes in various places, and he's accused of trying to overthrow democracy itself. It's hyperbole beyond the pale.

All the commission is doing is comparing data to try to find double registrations and dead people, and even that, which is completely 100% legit and in fact the obligation of the states to do IMO, has caused outrage that we're doing something awful.

It's absurd. All of it. People are simply way too focused on the trappings and slogans and sound bites in politics instead of staying focused on policy and action and substance.

so far Trump has done nothing policy wise, not one single damned thing, that would be out of line with a more polished conservative President. Obama took lots of executive actions with immigration and many other things, and none of those were sold as ending democracy by the media, yet Trump simply does the same thing for a different ends and it's the end of the word.

So why is he seen as some complete outlier? Only bc he's for an agenda that at least half of this country wants to see implemented, but it's not the agenda of those who control the media so he's painted as a lunatic. He helps that along a LOT by acting like one, but so far he really hasn't followed up on the bluster, and I seriously doubt he does.

[CitizenBBN]

Hehe. Those reports and others were certainly heralded here, and without any argument as I recall from the right.

You cleverly misrepresent the positions taken here by both sides.

I have absolutely no intention to misrepresent anyone's position.

So you obviously thought those positions on Obama were over the top, why are you embracing the same level of conspiracy regarding Trump?

It's true I didn't call out some of those theories harshly, but neither did I agree with them. I do question why DHS has bought such large amounts of ammo, both from a spending standpoint and from the standpoint of government power and presence. That does not translate into believing that Obama was going to seize power. I think if you go back and read those discussions you'll find that was the main area of concern for most here.

I'm trying to not call out the anti-Trump conspiracies harshly either, out of respect for those here who believe them, but I am trying to offer some perspective.

So far all of these claims and fears are based conjecture, fear-mongering and rhetoric. Admittedly much of the rhetoric is from Trump himself and his comments do nothing to quell those concerns. But the are still just talk and bluster. When they are based in something substantive then we can worry. You know, like withholding information from the American people to such a degree the Attorney General is held in contempt of Congress for the first time in American history.

[Doc]

Trump is heralded and greatly admired here on this board.

Total and unequivocal bullshit! Nobody has heralded or admired him. Most if not all have criticized him as a boorish child. Given the choice between him and a career crooked politician who should be in jail, they elected to at least give him the benefit of the doubt. Most didnt suppprt Obama either but the criticism here was at least fair. Same with Trump. He has been roundly and throughly criticized on numerous fronts, but given the choice, most elected to fairly criticize him while the left, in general, continues with their fabrications to dusrupt his agenda

[kingcat]

After skimming over the last fifty or so threads, I have decided no response necessary.

[Catonahottinroof]

Thank you for re-affirming your partisanship for those those who weren't sure...

After skimming over the last fifty or so threads, I have decided no response necessary.

[kingcat]

No offense intended but the irony is pretty amusing. This forum is extremely partisan and that has to be acknowledged. not a complaint...a fact.

Now, I'm going to leave the barbs and vitriol to others who feel the need.
I have tried and will continue to try to state my opinions in a respectful way while attacking no one individually.

I consider everyone here a friend and will always treat you guys that way.

[Catonahottinroof]

So stating an opinion equating voting fraud with publicly available data that shows more votes than registered voters in California with a response that equated it with the fake news death of Chumlee was a respectful (or even well thought out response)by you?
I didn't post anything about it at the time you posted it, but since you find irony amusing I couldn't resist.

No offense intended but the irony is pretty amusing. This forum is extremely partisan and that has to be acknowledged. not a complaint...a fact.

Now, I'm going to leave the barbs and vitriol to others who feel the need.
I have tried and will continue to try to state my opinions in a respectful way while attacking no one individually.

I consider everyone here a friend and will always treat you guys that way.

[kingcat]

I certainly wouldn't have taken offense at it had the situation been reversed. I'd have laughed along with you since the Chumlee thing is an ongoing internet joke. Heck, it was highlighted in the middle of the screen.

However, sorry if that offended. I think I stated in the thread I didnt mean to knock the post.

[CitizenBBN]

Citizen

We really need to meet in person one of these days. You are a good man.

You are a great guy, and I'm glad you feel that way b/c I'd love to meet, and I'd never want politics to come between us or anyone on this board.

In the end it's not like any of these leaders are going to call us for opinions, what we do here is just angels dancing on the head of a pin in terms of its influence, but friendships and relationships are real and not to be discarded over such things.

Next time I"m up that way I'll make a point of seeing what we can work out. I'm not there often these days, work keeps me tied here, but I have family there so it does happen.

Also, come in for a game sometime. I can always scrounge up some tickets, we'll sit around and rag on rival teams instead of politicians.

[CitizenBBN]

No offense intended but the irony is pretty amusing. This forum is extremely partisan and that has to be acknowledged. not a complaint...a fact.

I agree it's very one-sided on the American political spectrum. Can't argue that a bit.

But I may quibble with "partisan" only b/c to me that is someone who just spouts the party line without having their own opinion, or questioning their "side". I see some of that here no doubt, but honestly probably not as much as I see in the general population.

For example I generally agree with Trump's stated goals, but I have never offered any defense of his message or behavior or his absurd habit of personally attacking people like a 6 year old. Doc called him a "petulant child" and I think that fits better than any other description I've heard. He's an ass-hat. I get why people want to punch him. If he weren't rich he'd have the crap kicked out of him every weekend in a bar.

To me being "partisan" is supporting his nonsense no matter what, and I don't see that. I do end up defending him on here, but not for his personal behavior and not if I disagree.

For example, I'm outraged that Sessions wants to expand "asset forfeiture", which is a polite way to say seizure without warrants or charges, much less a conviction. I'm outraged Trump will end net neutrality, which is a travesty, and I supported Obama on it for 8 years on here.

If I were "partisan" in my view I would be twisting my beliefs to fit theirs, and I don't see that on here. Now 80% of the time 80% of the group will in fact agree with the conservative view b/c that's who we are, but it's not out of bias or blindness or just defending "our side".

I don't mean to nit picks, that's just how I see that word. We can't get around it being a strongly conservative group, but I do hope we can rise to express OUR opinions respectfully and not just stick to attacking "the other side" and defending "our side" no matter what.

I sincerely don't see that on here that much. Some, but not as much as I see it elsewhere in the world.

[kingcat]

Good post.

I guess we all have to sacrifice a little if we want varying opinions. You know, if when this board was created the first several to post here had been Democrats, folks now entrenched here would better understand why participation is so very limited. Its a natural phenomenon to protect ones turf.
Similar to our sports discussions, those we consider rivals must walk a thin line to participate..if they are allowed at all.

I can tell you with a surety that anyone who leans Democratic is not able to be themselves here or post in the manor we use in our other forums.
Although we are friends, political animosity runs high. So we must alter posting styles and yield our positions.

That prevailing animosity is quite evident and, although it could have be reversed, truly sad in that it's reflective of where our nation now stands.

That is the greatest enemy we all face imo. United we stand..but divided, as we are..we fall. :|

There will be no winners in the long run.

[KSRBEvans]

We held national elections in the middle of civil and world wars. We should hold elections when required by the Constitution, no matter what.

I also think the question that was asked in the poll was a setup question. If they'd asked the same question of Democrats when they were in power, the number of Democrats wanting to postpone would've been about the same IMHO.

Also, I wouldn't assume the lack of people participating in these threads and disagreeing with Trump implies support. I'm not a Republican anymore, largely due to Trump and those who enabled and continue to enable him. I made my feelings about him pretty well known during 2016 and they haven't changed. But I'm also not going to haunt every political thread to express that opinion. That gets boring pretty quickly.

[Doc]

Its funny becuase there were rumblins of the same (an election postponement) during Obama's reign. Nobody took them seriously yet this dopey idea has momentum, likely because its yet another opportunity to cast Trump in a negative light. Plus I find it quite odd that the Washington Post's number of 52% of republicans would be in favor. Move the decimal point one space left and I might , emphasize might, believe it. They must have looked very hard to find that 52%...that or phased the question in such a manor that the poll would be so skewd as to be worthless for any purpose other than making the GOP appear to support this idea.

Is there any doubt republicans, as a general rule, want voter confirmation / identy? Not at all. And is there much doubt the the far left wants open voting with what amounts to an honor system? Nope. Its also ironic that when even a small number of voters are disenfranchised, the left gets all upset over it and raises a stink yet they have little or no issue with ineligble people casting votes. I suspect the number of "eligible voters" who could not vote due to a voter ID law is far less than the number of illegal votes cast in any election yet even the fear of somehow making voter identification a mandatory process where a relatively small number may have an issue draws quick legal action but voter fraud is routinely dismissed as a conspiracy that has no effect on the election.

[kingcat]

Doc you make the Republicans sound so noble if I didnt know better Id take the pledge right here and now.
Many if not most believe Republicans would like to hinder minority votes and substantially lessen turnouts at the polls in areas predisposed to a Democratic lean.

And Democrats are motivated to likewise benefit themselves.

Truth is, every citizen should be compelled to vote and assisted in every way in doing so. And anyone messing with the system or tampering should be treated as traitors to this country, or enemies of democracy. I wouldn't care which side they came from

But best guesses and suspicion from both sides are a waste of effort. If nothing gets done its very likely because someone was just playing politics along the way

I do wonder about tangible things like the fairness of felony disenfranchisement.
Lifetime bans seem wrong to me. Once a debt to society has been paid and past felons are free in society they should be allowed to vote automatically imho

The Declaration of Independence states that government must derive its power from the consent of the governed. And despite their past crime, most felons and ex-felons are citizens, governed and affected by the decisions made in Washington.
As an essential protection from government tyranny, corruption, and unjust laws, it is crucial that*all*citizens can contribute to the discussion of what type of society they would like to live in and what the laws dictating that society are.

I have read that Kentucky, Florida, and Virginia each disenfranchise over 20 percent of their respective adult black American populations in this way. Other states like Connecticut and Rhode island are moving forward in this area.

In Kentucky anyone wishing to be re-enfranchised must submit a formal letter or essay explaining why rights should be reinstated, plus a three character references in letter form. The number of applications has significantly declined since the process went into effect in 2004.
Alabama’s system highlights the vagueness of some states’ rules. Its disenfranchisement law bars prior felons from voting if their crime involved moral turpitude
Ambiguous at best.

A reintroduced bill is currently in congress but with probably not much chance of passing.
S. 1588: Democracy Restoration Act of 2017

[Doc]

I don't think they are noble at all. You commented above about how you read previous posts to determine this admiration for Trump. I'd ask you to reread to confirm this belief that I believe the GOP are noble. My belief is every individual who is legally eligible to vote if they desire should, and those who are not eligible should not vote. Their skin color, ethnicity, level of income, etc has no bearing. Those opposed to the eligible voter only defend their point by throwing the minority issue out there because its the only defense they have.

What I stated is the GOP as a party policy is to support voter ID laws. That is factual. Likewise it is factual that the liberal aspect of this nation strongly opposes it. It is my observation and mine alone that the left tends to get riled when any voter is denied but does not seem bothered by ineligible people voting. Likewise the right wants strict ID laws but are less concerned if an eligible voter is denied. MY PHILOSOPHY is if you are an eligible voter who has a desire to vote, you can and will do whatever is required. If that falls closer to the GOP party line, so be it but it hardly means I find those jackasses noble.

Your belief Republicans goal is to hinder minority voting. I say incorrect. You assume those who are ineligible to vote are minorities. I forget that blacks, Latinos, etc are not able to acquire adequate ID, and that is strictly a ethnic based issue. Is that because the govt is more willing to issue an ID to a white person, or is it that minorities are not smart enough to get one? I mean it means going to city hall or dmv but the left thinks that is too much of a burden....yet these folks have no trouble getting to their polling locations. You got 4 years between presidential elections to get an ID and thats too much of a burden yet on election day, the single day where elections happen they are more than available. Funny how that works.

I agree that lifetime bans are not wise except for serious crimes. If you are in jail, you should lose your right to vote while there but after release then you paid your debt.

[kingcat]

Doc, you take me too seriously. I never meant to imply everyone here was anything, Predominantly Pro Trump?...most certainly

Distrusting and angrily anti virtually anything or anyone Democratic? There honestly are only a couple who aren't. But that's alright, I don't care.
Just don't throw the baby out with the bath water. We are friends here...beyond politics.
Honestly I feel things are being read into my posts that arent really there. And only because of my political leanings
How else can I rationalize the feeling of having to walk on egg shells to be a part of a discussion?

I started the above post with a little levity I thought. My opinion is a little different from yours. Not superior, different.

I do believe both sides are cut throat when it comes to both garnering and hindering votes. My point was mainly that I dont trust the info presented by either side until the legal system prosecutes and courts rule on it. Otherwise its very likely to be political rhetoric.