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  1. #1

    Will bet the ranch that wasn't an M4

    There are reports he used the M4 rifle. For those who aren't gun nuts like myself, that is a variant of the M16 (civilian version AR 15) used by the military. Basically a shorter version of the M16A2.

    The problem, as Pedro mentioned, is that the M4 is a selective fire machine gun, and is not available at all for civilian purchase. Even a Class III license holder can't buy one b/c they are all made after 1986. They are only in the hands of the military and LEOs.

    So the chances he got his hands on one are dang slim.

    But I also just watched the video the jogger shot and while it doesn't show much, it records the weapons fire really well, and all those shots were single shots. there were no 3 round bursts or full auto bursts. So why would he have a full auto gun and not use it full auto? Why go to the trouble to somehow magically get one then use it like a regular AR?

    The thing is, the AR can easily be fitted to look all but identical to the M4. Same lower and upper receiver, same collapsing stock, same barrel length, etc. But not full auto.

    This was likely an off the shelf AR, but given how little people know about guns anything black probably gets called an AR by people.

    BTW, this guy was from Illinois, which has really strict gun laws overall b/c of Chicago. You have to have a card (a FOID) just to buy ammo, and each gun is licensed there. You can't even buy long guns out of state and bring them in like you can in almost every other state. lot of good those laws did.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  2. #2

    Re: Will bet the ranch that wasn't an M4

    FWIW I saw a report just now the ATF was tracing a shotgun and a rifle. If it was a stolen M4 they wouldn't be doing a trace on it, though the media usually doens't get those details right so that's not conclusive.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  3. #3
    Fiddlin' Five
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    Re: Will bet the ranch that wasn't an M4

    Very, very unlikely it was an M4. Most likely the civilian variant, not the actual military/law enforcement weapon.
    MOLON LABE!

  4. #4

    Re: Will bet the ranch that wasn't an M4

    I was listening to the audio from the video the guy nearby took. It seemed the shots were kind of loud for an AR, more like the sound of a 7.62x39 round. An AR isn't nearly as loud as the AK or SKS rounds.

  5. #5

    Re: Will bet the ranch that wasn't an M4


  6. #6

    Re: Will bet the ranch that wasn't an M4

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithKSR View Post
    I was listening to the audio from the video the guy nearby took. It seemed the shots were kind of loud for an AR, more like the sound of a 7.62x39 round. An AR isn't nearly as loud as the AK or SKS rounds.
    I thought the same thing on the video, was going to listen again, but it wasn't the right sound for a 223 or an AR. They're remarkably quiet guns.

    And now it is reported it was an SKS. Very interesting. SKSs are definitely louder with that open receiver design.

    he was unemployed, not doing well, SKSs are a lot cheaper than an AR15, so that makes sense.

    I wonder if he was using the 10 round box mag. I only wonder b/c everyone is calling this an "assault rifle" but if he didn't modify the mag that's not an assault rifle even under the Cali definition.

    Now I'm betting he did based on the fire I heard in that video, he probably put in a duckbill mag, but I am curious. I guess that's morbid, but I find it interesting how he got from A to B in his thinking, how much he thought about this and how much he just went and did without planning.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  7. #7

    Re: Will bet the ranch that wasn't an M4

    I'm also curious about the magazine for a couple of other reasons. I thought IL had magazine restrictions but apparently not, but that was part of it.

    Also I'm curious if he trained for this or it was more arbitrary. If he used the 10 round mag with stripper clips to reload it could be he trained quite a bit.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  8. #8

    Re: Will bet the ranch that wasn't an M4

    If he had trained or fired it regularly, he'd be a better shot than he was.

  9. #9

    Re: Will bet the ranch that wasn't an M4

    Quote Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof View Post
    If he had trained or fired it regularly, he'd be a better shot than he was.
    Also true. I think we'll find he probably had the guns and maybe fantasized or whatever, but just woke up and snapped.

    it's all a meaningless exercise. I'm interested in the technical details b/c funny enough the SKS rifle is one of my strongest areas of knowledge with guns, but in the end the means are not important. The fact that we have become a society without civility and with large amounts of hatred and complete distrust is the issue.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  10. #10

    Re: Will bet the ranch that wasn't an M4

    If I remember correctly any ammunition purchase, either in Illinois, or that is transported into Illinois require notifying the state with an Illinois Firearm Owner ID. There should be a record of the ammunition used if the gun was legal for him to own there.

  11. #11

    Re: Will bet the ranch that wasn't an M4

    That's correct. In Illinois the FOID is a pretty broad process. He'd have to get the card and it records all purchases, and he is supposed to follow those procedures for ammo purchased out of state.

    Of course a lot of places will sell you ammo without checking if you have a FOID or checking ID at all, b/c they don't have to so they don't. The only GCA restriction is minors can't buy handgun ammo and that includes 22, but as a kid I bought 22 ammo all the time back home.

    But he followed the laws, so I'm sure he had a FOID etc. I'm betting it was all legally purchased in Illinois b/c there's no reason he would have been restricted.

    Interestingly if that domestic abuse charge hadn't been dropped he would have been restricted.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  12. #12

    Re: Will bet the ranch that wasn't an M4

    I read an article that said the weapon he used was not an AR, but that it was built in the 40's. I couldn't vouch for how truthful it was.

  13. #13

    Re: Will bet the ranch that wasn't an M4

    Quote Originally Posted by DanISSELisdaman View Post
    I read an article that said the weapon he used was not an AR, but that it was built in the 40's. I couldn't vouch for how truthful it was.
    The SKS was used a bit toward the end of WW2 by the Russians. After the development of the AK47 it was shared with the Yugos, Chinese, etc.

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