Thoughts on Comey testimony:

[CitizenBBN]

Not that anyone asked, but while I've worked tonight I've played some basic coverage. A few thoughts:

1) Honestly not much new news in terms of substance. All of this had been leaked prior to the testimony, we find out much of it by Comey himself, so not really much "there there" on that front. That's not a defense of Trump, jsut a statement of fact that the way politics is played these days it's ALL "leaked" prior to the event to get the message out early and groundwork laid.

2) MOST IMPORTANT: Comey is as much a politician as anyone in there asking questions. He showed that by admitting he intentionally leaked his notes to prompt (his words) the special counsel, and did so again when he explained his reasons for going public with the Clinton email investigation. Moreover, he admitted he used wording that aligned his statements with the Clinton campaign at the behest of the AG. He has played the Clintons and now Trump for his own goals, whether admirable or not. Not come forward and laid his cards out, but acted with political tact to get a result. thats politics.

3) Comey is a coward, as well as a politician. He got his message out through a leak rather than stand up in front of the media and release his notes. Also in his testimony he admitted his answer to Trump's prompting about Flynn was to answer "we'll see what we can do." That rather than to explain to his BOSS that such things are inappropriate, or in any way either help him understand the role of the POTUS or act decisively and tell the POTUS he couldn't do that. He also said he got a bad feeling with Trump, yet met with him 9 times and took notes rather than tell the POTUS he had issues or just plain resign.

4) Trump is exactly who we expected, good and bad. He's a powerful businessman who has no time or patience for the nuances of the balance of power or procedures or regulations. I bet he's a piece of work to work for, and has a tin ear a lot of the time.

5) TRump has committed no crime. Alan Dershowitz is right and Comey backed him up on this point, the President can't commit obstruction even if he told Comey straight up to not investigate Flynn. he didn't even do that, and there's nothing there legally.

5a) The case against Hillary, that Comey said couldn't be made, was WAY more clear than what we have here so far.

6) Trump's actions are, as with the travel ban, an issue for the voters, not the judges. The punishment for doing things that are legal but not really good is to lose at the polls. So if you don't like how he handled it thus far, vote against him. But I see no other actionable stuff thus far.

7) The leaking has been very selective. As Rubio said, it seems the only thing NOT leaked from Comey's FBI is that Trump was never under investigation. I find that very telling.

8) Comey said that more than one story in the NYT about the Russian collusion was flat wrong. That won't get much coverage.

9) Some are saying how this hurts Trump is he lost credibility. I'm not sure that's right b/c Im' not sure he had any credibility. that sounds weird for a new President but seriously. I didn't vote for the guy b/c I thought he was honest or even reasonable. I figured as a billionaire real estate mogul he could look at you and lie with the best of them, just like any politician. Obama was caught on tape whispering to the Russians that he could do more after his 2nd election, clearly he was lying to the American people, nothing happened. Now the media will trounce on Tump v. Obama, but will anyone care? His haters can't possibly hate him more, his supporters knew what they were getting, and the middle just care if he gets health care and taxes done. Do that and the voters don't care if he lied about what he may have said to comey, and there's no proof of it either way anyway.

10) This will get ZERO coverage: Trump told Comey that if anyone in his group did collaborate with the Russians he wanted them CAUGHT. Talk about quotes you'll never see in the WaPo or NYT. Now you can dismiss that if you will, but he did say it, and IMO that's what he needed to do publicly from DAY ONE.


For Trump, the secret is the same as with Clinton and all his scandals: Stay focused on getting things done, getting results. Do that and the American voter won't care what else you do. Forget this investigation, work with the GOP to forget it, let the minions do that battle, and go get some damned legislation passed so you can hold the house in 2018.

If he's going to do ANYTHING on this, do a 180. GET BEHIND IT. Say you WANT a special prosecutor b/c if anyone on your staff or campaign did anything wrong with the Russians you want them drug off to Levenworth in irons. that would do more to get it behind him than anything else he could do. Stop going head to head with stronger force like a New Yorker, learn from Sun Tzu and just sidestep that force and use it to your advantage.

Come out, say you have complete confidence in your DOJ and their appointment, you're looking forward to a new start for the FBI that can remove it from the politics we clearly see it was engaged in in the past, and you welcome a thorough and speedy investigation of Russian involvement. Then get on to talking about health care, b/c for 70% of Americans THAT'S what they want to hear about. They don't in the end give a damn about Washington politics. let the Dems make the same mistake the GOP made with Clinton, just go hire Clinton's people and do what he did, stay out of the fray and focus on policies.

[Catonahottinroof]

I wonder if Comey will be prosecuted for admitting his leak?

[CitizenBBN]

I wonder if Comey will be prosecuted for admitting his leak?

I don't know if it's a crime at a federal level, but it's likely at least a violation of regulations. The document was clearly a work document, and he released it without following proper procedures, and those apply to former employees as well.

What will never get covered was that he admitted he personally made it "unclassified" b/c doing otherwise would "tangle it up."

so he admitted he made these notes not just to cover himself in the event of an issue, but made sure they could then be used publicly in his defense.

His actions were every bit as political and premeditated as any politician in Washington. That's not a crime, but it does mean you now have very little credibility with me b/c we know he will do what it takes to insure his career more than anything else. He bent to the will of Lynch, and would have let all of this go with Trump to as long as he kept getting a check. yet now he wants to act as if he's acting out of some sense of ethics?

I think he needs to be looked at for the leak and for the classification of the document. Are other notes from meetings with the President routinely filed as unclassified or just this one?

Washington is a dirty damned mess. People do more bad there every hour than Trump has been proven to have done thus far over the course of the entire campaign and Presidency. That's not to defend him, it's just to put these actions into the perspective of what is clearly commonplace in Washington.

[Catonahottinroof]

If I understand the timing correctly, he was a citizen passing that info at that point..

[CitizenBBN]

If I understand the timing correctly, he was a citizen passing that info at that point..

Yes he was, which may make it worse depending on the regs, but as I read them it's actually indifferent. Their contracts specify they can't do those things even when gone, and he I'm sure has kept his security clearance, which also ties his hands as to what he can release.

He will be seen as credible versus Trump, but IMO neither have any credibility. He's been shown to cave to political pressure in the Clinton investigation, pursue extra-legal actions in that case knowing he didn't have that authority, has leaked government documents for his own political and personal reasons and done so through a non-governmental third party, has admitted to classifying that document based on being able to use it for this purpose down the road, and been totally selective and arbitrary in a whole series of decisions as to what to make public and what to keep private.

In all of these he ignored both federal laws and DOJ and FBI regs to varying degrees, possibly committing crimes in the process but certainly acting with the same reckless disregard for the rules and in his own interests and agenda as much as Trump is being accused of doing.

Seriously, what's the difference between the two of them really?

[Catonahottinroof]

i don't think it's a coincidence they charged a low level leaker earlier in the week....and I think Trump will have DOJ pursue Comey on his admission yesterday.

[badrose]

The guy turned out to be an opportunist, and not a very good one as he has burned all of his bridges.

[Darrell KSR]

There's a lot of partisan angst at the messenger, and partisan angst at the subject of the message. Taking it in a vacuum, I'm far more concerned with the message, although there wasn't much that was added yesterday that we didn't already know.

[KeithKSR]

If I understand the timing correctly, he was a citizen passing that info at that point..

Nope, he was a former employee leaking government documents, which is a felony. By Comey's own account he used an FBI laptop to compose the memos, which makes it a product of a government employee in his position with the government and therefore government property.

Trump should have fired him for insubordination. If Trump orders Comey to find the source of the leaks and fails to follow through he is refusing an order by his superior.

Furthermore, if Trump had ordered Comey to drop the Flynn case then Comey would have two options, drop the case or resign. When Obama ordered cases dropped it was prosecutorial discretion, not obstruction of justice. Unlike the media proclaims the Director of the FBI is not the chief law enforcement officer in the land, the POTUS is.

Here is what Dershowitz wrote about the whole obstruction of justice red herring: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/...are-wrong.html

Dershowitz is no Trump fan, and is as staunch a liberal as you will find.

[KeithKSR]

The guy turned out to be an opportunist, and not a very good one as he has burned all of his bridges.

He has always been an opportunist and political hack.

[Catonahottinroof]

No distinction whether former federal employee or not. He leaked after the poo poo hit the fan and had ample time prior to his firing to initiate it. As a civilian it's worse IMO.

[CitizenBBN]

There's a lot of partisan angst at the messenger, and partisan angst at the subject of the message. Taking it in a vacuum, I'm far more concerned with the message, although there wasn't much that was added yesterday that we didn't already know.

The only new news was his admissions that hurt him IMO. He'd already leaked the bad stuff on Trump.

He did confirm Trump himself wasn't under investigation, and that he refused to make that public. Which begs the question of just how he decides what to make public and what to hold,b/c he's played politics with that decision a few times now.

He confirmed he leaked what IMO is clearly a government document.

He brought up this Lynch thing, admitting she got him to re-characterize what he called it to "align" with the Clinton campaign.

On Trump we already knew about the dinner, about his hoping Flynn would go away, etc. We found out Trump is everything we thought and knew, a head strong guy with little patience and an overbearing personality. Not good, but not new.

As I thought about it some last night I realized that of the "new" stuff it was almost all bad for Comey, but yet today I guarantee it won't be spun that way.

And that's not to defend Trump. It's just that we already knew the bad parts of his behavior in this, honestly even before he was President.

[CitizenBBN]

Even Chris Matthews thinks this blows up the Trump/Russia collusion theory:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/06/0...-comey-hearing

The Russians interfered in the election for the same reason they spy on us everywhere else, and for the same reason China and NK and a host of others are doing it: to gain strategic advantage.

And they don't need to collude with Trump in some grand conspiracy to get that. They got exactly what they wanted out of this, the USA completely absorbed in looking at its own belly button and faced with complete gridlock. Trump, the Dems, the GOP, the American media are all giving the Russians exactly the win they wanted in this mess.

[UKHistory]

As someone in government, I don't consider his notes to be a government document at all. Had Comey's notes been part of government report, classified or not, it would be a government document or at least a draft of a government report. In a draft form, before the report is finished, the notes would most likely be considered "pre-decisional" and not even subject to FOIA.

These notes are not that; These are his private recollections with no classified information disclosed of a meeting that the President had already discussed publicly which waives executive privilege.

Had Comey written these notes for financial gain (a book deal), the notes would need to be vetted by the DOJ prior to publication or release.

The only issue is that he used a government computer but as government equipment can be used, minimally for personal use, I don't think it is an issue.

So I can't say that compared to Snowden or Reality Winner (the NSA gives a person named Reality Winner classified clearance?) Comey is leaking anything. Sharing his conversation with the president publicly is not an issue.

Considering the circumstances, it absolutely is germaine to better understand the President's continued support of a man that at the very least failed to dislcose information on the standard form.

And I don't buy anyone not remembering or disclosing the meetings they had with high ranking foreign officials. I completed the same form that Flynn and the others completed. There is no way you forget to disclose financial interests unintentionally.

And while no government wants leakers, without the individuals leaking this information, General Flynn was would be the national security advisor. Based on Flynn's relationship with Russia and Turkey, the country is safer with him in the private sector.

[Catonahottinroof]

if he jotted, stored, created or saved any of those notes on government equipment, they're not his to disseminate. It's government property, private thoughts or not.
I can't believe the government would handle this any differently than an (or my) employer would. In addition to that, he may have used data he was given as a government employee, made conclusions on that data and forwarded to a 3rd party to be disseminated publicly outside of whatever classification the data may have had. That's a felony if the data was restricted in any way and he basically admitted to doing so.
Unclassified data wouldn't have required involving a 3rd party.

As someone in government, I don't consider his notes to be a government document at all. Had Comey's notes been part of government report, classified or not, it would be a government document or at least a draft of a government report. In a draft form, before the report is finished, the notes would most likely be considered "pre-decisional" and not even subject to FOIA.

These notes are not that; These are his private recollections with no classified information disclosed of a meeting that the President had already discussed publicly which waives executive privilege.

Had Comey written these notes for financial gain (a book deal), the notes would need to be vetted by the DOJ prior to publication or release.

The only issue is that he used a government computer but as government equipment can be used, minimally for personal use, I don't think it is an issue.

So I can't say that compared to Snowden or Reality Winner (the NSA gives a person named Reality Winner classified clearance?) Comey is leaking anything. Sharing his conversation with the president publicly is not an issue.

Considering the circumstances, it absolutely is germaine to better understand the President's continued support of a man that at the very least failed to dislcose information on the standard form.

And I don't buy anyone not remembering or disclosing the meetings they had with high ranking foreign officials. I completed the same form that Flynn and the others completed. There is no way you forget to disclose financial interests unintentionally.

And while no government wants leakers, without the individuals leaking this information, General Flynn was would be the national security advisor. Based on Flynn's relationship with Russia and Turkey, the country is safer with him in the private sector.

[UKHistory]

Things that stood out to me included

1 Comey said he never recorded meetings with either W or Obama. Trump was different because he expected trump might lie about their meetings. That is strong.

2 Comey understands politics. Anyone who is successful in a large organization has to be able to navigate the rat race. Comey has also been vilified by both republicans and democrats. I am sure Comey is not a saint or perfect but being criticized by everyone syS you are doing something right.

3 Comey referenced j Edgar Hoover by saying he didn't Want the President to think Comey was shaking him down with the dossier. I have not heard an FBI guy let alone a former director note the tyranny of hoover's tenure.

4. Lynch and Hillary really are less than stellar pillars of integrity. Americans did not have a real choice. We deserve better.

5. Loved the reference to Henry II and the meddlesome priest.

6. I think there is a lot of truth in the dossier. Otherwise the President would have at least one thing nice to say about the allies and something remotely critical of the Russians and Putin. And Russian whores working for the FSB are really hot. Ochen Mal
Cheakya

7. I was a little surprised at how Feinstein questioned Comey. She and others asked him why he did this or that. Comey described contacts with the president that resembled work place harassment. President trump is the president and there is a level of deference you need to show. I get Comey trying to be polite.

8. Loyalty oaths are not given to a person. Even those who work at the pleasure of the president, loyalty is to the Constitution. Every president has believers. I am not sure I have seen a more committed cult of personality than President Obama had. But loyalty is to the law.

9 lastly I agree with citizen that had President Trump stepped up and said the Russia investigation must be followed and any traitors would be punished. Do that and I see trump differently. But he did not take this approach. Far from it. He denied the Russians were involved and compared his intel to Nazis. His most trusted inner circle met with Russians and lied about it on Federal forms and to people.

Devos' brother works to set a back channel up through foreign governments. Maybe president trump is not a puppet. But he appears to be highly supportive of Russian goals around the world.

And if you don't want to seem like a Russian stooge don't host those Russians in the oval while mocking the FBI director in front of Russian press.

[UKHistory]

if he jotted, stored, created or saved any of those notes on government equipment, they're not his to disseminate. It's government property, private thoughts or not.
I can't believe the government would handle this any differently than an (or my) employer would. In addition to that, he may have used data he was given as a government employee, made conclusions on that data and forwarded to a 3rd party to be disseminated publicly outside of whatever classification the data may have had. That's a felony if the data was restricted in any way and he basically admitted to doing so.
Unclassified data wouldn't have required involving a 3rd party.

I am going by the ethics training I take annually. Pretty sure his thoughts and notes of his meetings are his own.

Ironically if Comey had emailed himself his notes then it is a government record. If he was writing a book, his stuff would be vetted before publication. That is due to profiting from his job. . But this appears fine.

Now I am not an DOJ ethics attorney but because this was not made public for financial gain; it was not classified and the president waive executive privilege, Comey should be free to say what he wants.

I do need to take ethics training for this year and complete a financial disclosure form. I will be taking my training in the next couple of weeks. I will ask the question and get answer from EOP counsel.

It is not. A government document unless comey was instructed to submit his notes and draft a report to the attorney general for example.

[Catonahottinroof]

That all depends on how he transcribed them. In his own hand righting or script I believe you are correct. If he used government equipment (laptop, iPhone etc) it's not his own. I've seen my employer terminate employees for this very thing in the past and I don't see how the government would handle this differently.

I am going by the ethics training I take annually. Pretty sure his thoughts and notes of his meetings are his own.

Ironically if Comey had emailed himself his notes then it is a government record. If he was writing a book, his stuff would be vetted before publication. That is due to profiting from his job. . But this appears fine.

Now I am not an DOJ ethics attorney but because this was not made public for financial gain; it was not classified and the president waive executive privilege, Comey should be free to say what he wants.

I do need to take ethics training for this year and complete a financial disclosure form. I will be taking my training in the next couple of weeks. I will ask the question and get answer from EOP counsel.

It is not. A government document unless comey was instructed to submit his notes and draft a report to the attorney general for example.

[UKHistory]

I see your point but federal agencies do say that employees may have limited personal use of computers and the internet provided it does not impact the job.

So just as I could buy a movie ticket or celebrate a U.K. Win with friends here, I could type out a note to myself and it be acceptable.

Let's hypothesize... I Was in a meeting and took notes this week. Those notes were for my benefit. Are they government property. Is that a government document? I used govt supplies which a computer meets the definition a govt supply the same as a note pad. I don't think so.

Now let's say I draft a PowerPoint which explains a new federal policy. It is really great and people love it. People like it so much that I am offered money to give that PowerPoint training.

Can I use that same PowerPoint? No. Thta PowerPoint and talking points belongs to Uncle Sam.

Now let's

[CitizenBBN]

History, the rules you have are likely very different from the rules at the FBI and also the rules of interactions with a President.

First, even under your general federal rules there are procedures for getting approval for documents being rules personal. You don't just get to do it on your own.

Second, the FBI has regulations in place in addition to general federal regs that presume notes and such to be part of FBI investigations.Now this wasn't an investigation, but it does point to the fact that there are different procedures there.

Third, there are rules for the release of even YOUR information, even if it is yours. For example Comey has been offered millions now to do a "tell all" book about Hillary and Trump. There is language in his hiring contract to protect from exactly this kind of behavior, b/c otherwise you'd have all kinds of former government people cashing in, and that includes review procedures for what is released. People who write books from former government position routinely have to submit such things for review before beign released, and that would seem to apply here.

Fourth, private meetings with the President could be covered by executive privilege, and if so then no you can't release notes on such things b/c it defeats the purpose of the privilege.

Fifth, it was done on government equipment, and while that may or may not make it a government document, there are, again, procedures for making that determination which he did not follow.

Sixth, he apparently did discuss these things with others at work, though not the people he was SUPPOSED to discuss it with if he thought there was a problem, which certainly suggests that this is a work document.

Last, and this is the most damning, Comey admitted under oath that he intentionally classified this memo as "unclassified" b/c doing otherwise would "tangle it up." That means he himself saw this as a government document b/c otherwise it wouldn't even HAVE a classification, and that he made the decision he did with the intent of being able to use it publicly later even though he clearly knew it was a document that could have had a classified status. He basically admitted this was a government document through that disclosure.


This is a deeply troubling action by Comey, esp. in light of the fact that he was the man most tasked with enforcing the laws on leakers, and he chose to then become one for his own motives. He once again avoided observance of any number of procedures and regulations and possibly even laws and just did what he wanted. Same thing he did in the Hillary situation.

Come on, he's the head of the FBI, a Law Enforcement agent, and he has routinely ignored the law and FBI and DOJ regulations and just done whatever he thought was best. That's now how that job works.

You reference Hoover, who was well known for just doing whatever he wanted with the FBI. How are these actions not Hooveresque in their execution? B/c we may think Comey was trying to do right? Well so did Hoover.

It doesn't mean he should be in prison for life, but it does mean that Comey has proven he will do whatever he wants without regards to the rules, and should be given no more positive presumption than any elected politician in Washington.

[KeithKSR]

I am going by the ethics training I take annually. Pretty sure his thoughts and notes of his meetings are his own.

Ironically if Comey had emailed himself his notes then it is a government record. If he was writing a book, his stuff would be vetted before publication. That is due to profiting from his job. . But this appears fine.

Now I am not an DOJ ethics attorney but because this was not made public for financial gain; it was not classified and the president waive executive privilege, Comey should be free to say what he wants.

I do need to take ethics training for this year and complete a financial disclosure form. I will be taking my training in the next couple of weeks. I will ask the question and get answer from EOP counsel.

It is not. A government document unless comey was instructed to submit his notes and draft a report to the attorney general for example.

FBI regulations clearly indicate the memos are government property.

[KeithKSR]

Comey made several commments that others are contending were not accurate. Lynch reports he was one of several people at the meeting when she told them to characterize the Clinton investigation as a matter, she says Comey offered no comments or resisted in any way.

Sessions stated Comey's account was inaccurate when he reported of telling Sessions not to leave him alone with Trump.

This is the same guy that had to correct his Congressional testimony on three occasions prior to this spring.

This is the same guy that stated on May 3 he had never been ordered to stop an investigation.

The guy is not the honest choir boy he wants people to think he is.

[Catonahottinroof]

If the information had no classification he didn't need a 3rd party to disseminate it.
A lot of folks have leaked data, and I suspect they knew he did too prior to this instance too.
I assume his prosecution will be payback for his testimony....

[CitizenBBN]

To follow up on the memo/notes, Rep. Chaffetz, head of the House Oversight Committee (who sadly is retiring, b/c IMO he's on track to be a serious POTUS candidate and has a lot of respect), said that he asked Comey directly for information about the notes and to have them given to the committee and Comey refused to answer about their status at all.

So here's a guy who, like so many bureaucrats in Washington these days, seems to think they can totally ignore the Constitutional oversight role of Congress and simply not hand over government files or even acknowledge their existence.

even if comey thought these were private, he could have said so to Rep. Chaffetz that he thought they were private, yet he just apparently didn't answer at all.

What we are seeing, and I'll post on this separately, is a Washington government run so amok it no longer answers to anyone. We have seen over the last few decades an endless stream of non-compliance and slow walking of everything from Congressional subpoenas to FOIA requests. The bureaucracy simply refuses to comply with the law, and judges give them deadlines and they just appeal or delay or ignore them.

We're still trying to get documents from ATF on Fast and Furious, and what Comey has done as director and now with these notes is exactly the same thing. He could have turned them over to Congress but he STILL hasn't produced them for the rightful oversight committees, but has managed to leak them to the NYT.

I just don't know how anyone sees Comey as anything but part of the problem of Washington that drove people to vote for both Trump and Sanders. Americans aren't so dumb they don't see what is going on, and Comey is just another part of the establishment playing the games Washington plays.

That doesn't mean Trump is 100% right or anything else, but it does mean Comey is not to be draped in the robes of integrity or honesty or respect. He's no different IMO than a lobbyist or anyone else in Washington behind the scenes angling for himself.

[UKHistory]

I thought the copies of notes were given to mueller. I could be mistaken.

Reviewing my ethic rules and I will discuss in more detail. While DOJ may interpret somethings differently, the rules are the same I believe.

I feel very confident that writing down his personal notes that did not include classified info makes the notes (which are not proof of anything) are not government documents. And I base that on On my Own ethics training.

Now if Comey was using his notes to write a book or selling them for financial gain, he would have to work with DOJ. I think detailing his own experiences and keeping references to classified info protects him.

It is possible Comey left the meeting wrote down his interpretation of events and was wrong. Comey also might have written down a complete fabrication. His notes are not a smoking gun. Sharing his information in real time does say Comey is not crying sour grapes but he could have been lying since the first dinner.

I could be mistaken in my interpretations. But I am under the same restrictions as other employees. My current duty station required a much stricter security clearance than I had before. And I will sit through in December an almost identical figure xit process as Comey did.

I am not saying that as anything more than putting context to what I am saying in this thread. But I have experience in terms of securing confidential government data. And it is from that experience I am speaking.

If someone knows specific ethic rules that apply to comeys note please cite them.

[CitizenBBN]

History, I appreciate you mentioning something everyone seems to ignore: notes are not proof of anything. I see that assumption everywhere btw, not just in government. It's used in HR and such all the time, and it's fine to have but it's not like you can't just make stuff up.

I don't know the FBI or DOJ regs, but I'd say at the least it's very grey, and I've seen more than one commentator with a background at DOJ say there are real issues. As you mention, if he were releasing them for profit he'd have to get approval, but leaking them for political purposes is OK? NOt sure about that being a good conclusion even if it's the case.

There's also a question of whether these notes were really part of an investigation. No Trump wasn't under investigation for collusion but Comey himself said he released these to GET an special prosecutor, so he wrote them with the knowledge this may be tangential to an investigation, and clearly when released he thought they would be, and per FBI regs any such information is government property.

And of course there's still privilege questions. This was a conversation with the POTUS, and special rules apply to his interactions across the board.

I don't know for certain which way this will go, but I think it's a very serious question, and I think the head of the FBI using the "leaking solution" with his notes while FBI director is very serious indeed. He's the man primarily charged with addressing these actions and enforcing the procedures, and he seems to have made these decisions for his own motives and without consulting anyone.

That's another point btw. It is SOP for such things to be run by the various ethics people on staff. If you have a question, or something like this that is surely at least a possible area of question or gray, there are people you're supposed to go to with it.

I'm not ready to hang him over this, but I see a government that is utterly out of control in this whole mess, people who have oaths and requirements and regulations who ignore it all and do what they want without apparent repercussions.

The government no longer answers to the People through the election of its Representatives. it appears to operate in a state of quasi-independence, and woe to anyone who messes with them.

[badrose]

To follow up on the memo/notes, Rep. Chaffetz, head of the House Oversight Committee (who sadly is retiring, b/c IMO he's on track to be a serious POTUS candidate and has a lot of respect), said that he asked Comey directly for information about the notes and to have them given to the committee and Comey refused to answer about their status at all.

So here's a guy who, like so many bureaucrats in Washington these days, seems to think they can totally ignore the Constitutional oversight role of Congress and simply not hand over government files or even acknowledge their existence.

even if comey thought these were private, he could have said so to Rep. Chaffetz that he thought they were private, yet he just apparently didn't answer at all.

What we are seeing, and I'll post on this separately, is a Washington government run so amok it no longer answers to anyone. We have seen over the last few decades an endless stream of non-compliance and slow walking of everything from Congressional subpoenas to FOIA requests. The bureaucracy simply refuses to comply with the law, and judges give them deadlines and they just appeal or delay or ignore them.

We're still trying to get documents from ATF on Fast and Furious, and what Comey has done as director and now with these notes is exactly the same thing. He could have turned them over to Congress but he STILL hasn't produced them for the rightful oversight committees, but has managed to leak them to the NYT.

I just don't know how anyone sees Comey as anything but part of the problem of Washington that drove people to vote for both Trump and Sanders. Americans aren't so dumb they don't see what is going on, and Comey is just another part of the establishment playing the games Washington plays.

That doesn't mean Trump is 100% right or anything else, but it does mean Comey is not to be draped in the robes of integrity or honesty or respect. He's no different IMO than a lobbyist or anyone else in Washington behind the scenes angling for himself.

Tutored by Hillary?

[UKHistory]

It is a mess alright. Again the fact that these notes are his recollections and not part of of a file and the notes were made for personal use and not personal financial gain is important. I just hope or wish those adjudicating this thing were more about patriotism than partisanship.

I see this presidency as a national threat. Foreign influence over our government is a danger to our continued existence. It is that simple to me. That is why I am talking Politics here more than ever.

Some see this as just another round of squabbles for political gain and will use and distort everything. I want truth. And I want the nation protected against enemies both foreign and domestic.

Let's all take at face value Hillary is bad. Putin played both Bush and Obama. There are no perfect people. As bad a decisions any of them made it doesn't appear they have been influenced or compromised by the Russians.

At best we have a severely understaffed executive branch with many key players inexperienced.

We also have possible russian influence on the President's inner circle. The attorney general has recused himself allegedly from the Russian. Investigation. I am not sure there is a cHain of command to share this information properly.

It is extraordinary bad situation to be in a position to think that the president has been manipulated into embracing foreign policies supportive of Russia.

[KeithKSR]

History, I appreciate you mentioning something everyone seems to ignore: notes are not proof of anything. I see that assumption everywhere btw, not just in government. It's used in HR and such all the time, and it's fine to have but it's not like you can't just make stuff up.

I don't know the FBI or DOJ regs, but I'd say at the least it's very grey, and I've seen more than one commentator with a background at DOJ say there are real issues. As you mention, if he were releasing them for profit he'd have to get approval, but leaking them for political purposes is OK? NOt sure about that being a good conclusion even if it's the case.

There's also a question of whether these notes were really part of an investigation. No Trump wasn't under investigation for collusion but Comey himself said he released these to GET an special prosecutor, so he wrote them with the knowledge this may be tangential to an investigation, and clearly when released he thought they would be, and per FBI regs any such information is government property.

And of course there's still privilege questions. This was a conversation with the POTUS, and special rules apply to his interactions across the board.

I don't know for certain which way this will go, but I think it's a very serious question, and I think the head of the FBI using the "leaking solution" with his notes while FBI director is very serious indeed. He's the man primarily charged with addressing these actions and enforcing the procedures, and he seems to have made these decisions for his own motives and without consulting anyone.

That's another point btw. It is SOP for such things to be run by the various ethics people on staff. If you have a question, or something like this that is surely at least a possible area of question or gray, there are people you're supposed to go to with it.

I'm not ready to hang him over this, but I see a government that is utterly out of control in this whole mess, people who have oaths and requirements and regulations who ignore it all and do what they want without apparent repercussions.

The government no longer answers to the People through the election of its Representatives. it appears to operate in a state of quasi-independence, and woe to anyone who messes with them.

This is no grey area in the FBI. All FBI employees sign a document upon their employment that states all notes, memos, etc are government property and are not to be leaked, regardless of classification. Fox showed a copy of the document on Friday.

[KeithKSR]

It is a mess alright. Again the fact that these notes are his recollections and not part of of a file and the notes were made for personal use and not personal financial gain is important. I just hope or wish those adjudicating this thing were more about patriotism than partisanship.

I see this presidency as a national threat. Foreign influence over our government is a danger to our continued existence. It is that simple to me. That is why I am talking Politics here more than ever.

Some see this as just another round of squabbles for political gain and will use and distort everything. I want truth. And I want the nation protected against enemies both foreign and domestic.

Let's all take at face value Hillary is bad. Putin played both Bush and Obama. There are no perfect people. As bad a decisions any of them made it doesn't appear they have been influenced or compromised by the Russians.

At best we have a severely understaffed executive branch with many key players inexperienced.

We also have possible russian influence on the President's inner circle. The attorney general has recused himself allegedly from the Russian. Investigation. I am not sure there is a cHain of command to share this information properly.

It is extraordinary bad situation to be in a position to think that the president has been manipulated into embracing foreign policies supportive of Russia.

The danger lies within the deep state that opposes our elected President, and is making an all out effort to bring him down at all costs.

No financial gain? How about the huge book deal?

https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news...ook/102687024/