http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...-reporter.html
Sure, we know the mayor of Bozeman once killed a grizzly with nothing more than a spiral notebook, but at least he was smart enough to not do it in front of a media crew so PETA couldn't go after him.
At this point the guy should own it, maybe he'll actually go up in the polls, assuming his plea bargain keeps it from being a felony.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
This is beyond disturbing.
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I'm not condoning it but I'm honestly surprised it doesn't happen more often.Originally Posted by PedroDaGr8
Some media I'm sure is very polite but I've seen first hand when they go after someone in ways you don't see outside of biker bar fights. Do that in a bar and theres a fight.
You can't do it and u don't know what set this guy off but this reporter wasn't supposed to be there in that room and sounds like he was pretty aggressive.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
You don't get to assault someone just because he made it into a room he wasn't supposed to be in and asked a question the politician didn't want to answer. He was not aggressive, according to the Fox News reporters that were in the room and according to the audio clip which was released. Based on the details provided from the three Fox News reporters, the aggressive stuff is basically just outright lies that his campaign told to try to placate his base voters so that they will still vote for him. Same with the "liberal media" horseshit, this had nothing to do with liberal media this time and had everything to do with a guy who can't control his temper. Hell, any decent person would apologize after they lost control and hugely over reacted, body slammed a guy and began punching them. This guy just yells "Get the hell out" with his only apology being to the Fox News Reporters:
Sorry but the role of the news is to get the details for the story. If we only kept it to what politicians wanted us to hear, which is what Gianforte wanted; then NONE of the truth would get out. This type of assault on reporters happens in third world countries and is NOT acceptable in any form in ANY developed country PERIOD; I don't give a damn who is doing it. In my view, this is an attempt at suppressing and intimidating the media a la Russia or . The only difference is he did it directly instead of paying someone to do it. Does it suck being in this position for the politicians involved? Sure, but you aren't fit for politics if you can't handle it. I don't get to pick and choose which parts of my job I want to do or not. Trust me, the FDA (with which we are currently undergoing an audit) is way more intense and thorough than any news media would be. If you are a politician, part of your job is getting your statement out to the media even if they disagree with you.At that point, Gianforte grabbed Jacobs by the neck with both hands and slammed him into the ground behind him. Faith, Keith and I watched in disbelief as Gianforte then began punching the reporter. As Gianforte moved on top of Jacobs, he began yelling something to the effect of, "I'm sick and tired of this!"
Jacobs scrambled to his knees and said something about his glasses being broken. He asked Faith, Keith and myself for our names. In shock, we did not answer. Jacobs then said he wanted the police called and went to leave. Gianforte looked at the three of us and repeatedly apologized. At that point, I told him and Scanlon, who was now present, that we needed a moment. The men then left.
To be clear, at no point did any of us who witnessed this assault see Jacobs show any form of physical aggression toward Gianforte, who left the area after giving statements to local sheriff's deputies.
As for placating his base, unfortunately it will work. This kind of rah rah as long as its my team/my tribe bullshit is one of several reasons why things are so messed up in this country. You know damn well I am just as critical of Democrats when they engage in this stuff (a la Hillary, Debbie Shultz-Wasserman, Nancy Pelosi, Leeland Yee, etc.) so I don't give a damn about the team. Any more it has become, as long as the politicians toe a few token lines, it doesn't matter what else they do. For Republicans, it is tax cuts and abortion; for democrats it is social justice and gun control. Then both parties proceed to fleece this country blind with their corruption, hiding behind these token issues. The humorous reality being, the status quo will never change much and neither side wants it to, because they need the topic to continue what they really want which is corruption. Couple this with trends like: Don't trust the media, don't trust the experts, don't trust the scientists, don't trust the doctors, just trust us is a common mantra and one that used to be common only in autocratic nations and/or oligarchic nations. It is REALLY REALLY disturbing because the politicians on both sides are setting themselves up as being the only purveyors of truth, reality be damned. Allowing them to continue their corruption (that's just the other side attacking me) and screwing over pretty much everyone who is not them and in their in-group.
I used to think the Republican party was the group that was here to fight corruption and government waste. I now see that I was wrong, the Republicans weren't pissed off that the government was corrupt, they were pissed off that their guys weren't receiving the benefits. This has been shown time and again, when once they gain power, then engage in the same things just with different people involved. Just look at Kansas under Brownback or North Carolina under McCrory. Both of these states took huge steps backwards under Republican leadership, not due to their Republican ideals but mainly due to their corruption and perversion of their office. I consider corruption one of the greatest crimes that a politician can make and one that should be given long prison sentences for and being banned from politics, because it directly subverts the will of the people and in a Republic politicians following the will of the people is a must. Just look at Great Britain for an example of a system that no longer respects the will of the people. They have a domestic spying system which would have made the KGB proud and it is just getting worse. Britain is no longer free, in pretty much ANY sense of the word.
I'm not a person who believes in ideals or believes in blindly following a team. I believe that a person who clings their mind to an ideal without looking at the results is a fool and it shows at minimum a lack of character, if not a lack of intelligence. I challenge my beliefs based on results and if they don't get the results I expect then I reevaluate my beliefs. I used to be a devout Libertarian but now am not. The way corporations distort the market and wield power has shown that pure Libertarianism in and of itself is just as pie-in-the-sky as pure Communism. I have seen repeatedly that corporations are just as dangerous as the state. In fact, once they reach a certain size they become in essence secondary states. I guess you could call myself a combatalist, that I think the system works best when all sides are forced to fight against each other as checks on their power. The government should be fighting business, business should eb fighting the government, the government branches should be fighting each other, etc.
Last edited by PedroDaGr8; 05-25-2017 at 11:34 AM.
Pedro, I said it can't be defended. I'm not.
I also dont' believe the press spin that it was some kind of justified response, but the Fox people (the only article I've read since they were standing there), did say the guy came in the room where they were setting up for an interview where he apparentlly wasn't supposed to be and did put his recorder in the guy's face and started asking questions.
LIke I said, randomly walk up and do that on a street and see how that goes.
I didn't say it was OK, it's obvious it's not, and it's a given if you're going into politics, but yes I've seen reporters act like asses too, and all I said was I'm surprised more people don't lose their tempers in those situations. You aren't?
As for the GOP, I've felt that way since Reagan. I haven't supported the leadership of either party in a long time. The leadership is out for the party, period. Lots of Republicans feel that way, which is why Trump won. It's why Jeb Bush never polled more than 5% of the GOP base despite having all the money and name. The voters get it.
It's why, barring the super-delegate system of the DNC, we'd have had Trump v. Sanders for the election, b/c the American people have figured out en masse that the two parties are just out to sell us all down the river for their own gain.
Agree with Trump's agenda or not, it's also why the DC swamp is fighting back so hard, and would have with Sanders as well IMO. They don't want this system changed, they're the ones benefiting from it. The last thing Big Government and Big Business wants is free markets and decentralization (Trump sorta) or real socialism (Sanders).
Last edited by CitizenBBN; 05-25-2017 at 11:44 AM.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
Assaulting a person is against the law unless they attack you first.
Having said that, imo there should be a clause there somewhere that if someone will not get out of your face, you are where you are supposed to be and they are not where they are supposed to be, that you should not have to stand there and take their abusive behavior nor should you have to turn and walk away. You should be able to remove them from your face by physical force if necessary.
I know you can pick up your phone and call for security to take the jackass away while he is screaming at the top of his lungs about first amendment rights and police brutality
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
He got almost to the end of a tough campaign and just...choked.
Once a woman protester thru a bucket of rotten buffalo guts on two senators, the Governor, and a Sec of the Interior. Se Burns sat there crackin jokes.
You must make the other person the jerk--would've been easy to do.
I voted libertarian; the D is worse than the newly named Grapplin Greggy G.
Gianforte's behavior is a akin to a brown shirt thug. We had a good run in this country from Pearl Harbor to about Jim Wright's removal as speaker where we were Americans first.
Those days are gone.
Although the Buffalo guts story is pretty bad.
The guy snapped, but I won't read more into it than that. I'm betting if there were an onslaught of conservatives that some liberal politicians would lose it and do something dumb too, so i don't think i'ts any more than the fact that some people do have limits and they snap.
It's dumb and wrong, but I don't see that as in and of itself a greater issue, other than the fact that on both sides there is an utter loss of basic civility. Media are more crass and pushy with politicians, and politicians are vastly more crass and pushy with the media and each other too.
Maybe it does underscore the level of divisiveness out there right now. My guess though it was just a guy being pushy, who had already gotten on this guy's nerves, and he was tired and caught at the right moment and just lost it.
I'm more concerned about the fact that he may snap in that way behind closed doors or something and then it finally showed up in public.
It can't be condoned, but I'm not sure it's a capital offense or some broad sign of issues with freedom of the press or whatever. It's such an isolated incident.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
If a guy can get it Under his skin like that in Montana, wait until he deals with D.C. Traffic or metro delays. Now those are fighting times.
lol. Maybe he can telecommute.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
BTW, Slammin Greg G has won 50-43 or so. Fox reporters standing by their statements, body slam, choking, punching, despite reports to the contrary. Fox news in Bozeman.
Disheartening but the sizable early voting didn't allow gianforte to be hedged for his behavior.
I do wonder if it is a dark trend we are seeing. If it is fight back.
The media sees it as their duty to keep people informed what conservatives are doing. Liberals not so much. The days of Cronkite value media is over. The ones on MSNBC and CNN make me want to puke.
I didn't see it, have only heard the reports from several different places. Here is my take on this: Reporters have the right, and a duty, to accurately and truthfully report what they see and/or find. But there is another side to this as well, and that is that if you invade my personal space, as I have heard several times this reporter did to the candidate, then you are risking getting punched in the face. Period. I don't let anyone but my family within my personal space. NO ONE. And we, as Americans on the whole, are like that. Invade someone else's personal space and you could find yourself on the ground looking up at the ceiling or blue skies.
I DO NOT condone what the candidate did, but I can fully understand why he did it.
We have major, major problems with the media in this country, and this is just one of the smaller, lesser examples of that overall bigger problem. And what happened here is just the tip of the iceberg regarding many of the other problems we have on the table. JMHO.
MOLON LABE!
Sorry, I disagree with everyone who thinks sticking a recorder in your face justifies a physical assault. You guys should go to jail when that occurs. It's not self defense, and any reasonable person knows that. It's your response to someone being obnoxious.
If I used that standard, I would assault a dozen people a day. Mostly lawyers. But we deserve it.
Self-control, discipline and personal responsibility mandates that you don't resort to physical assault unless you are defending yourself. You know the difference. We all do.
By the way, there is a lot of do as I say and not as I do in my comment above. I wish I were as disciplined as I say everyone needs to be.
Darrell, I see your point. But you "know" when somebody gets too close. And if they don't or won't back up when asked or told to, then there is going to be an issue. Especially with me, but then again too, my safety and personal space issues are probably a lot different than the average person's is. Not an excuse, and not trying to be argumentative, but personal space is different with some of us.
And again, I DO NOT agree with what Gianfort did, but if the reporter wouldn't back up a few inches and kept shoving that microphone in his face, I can absolutely see "WHY" it happened.
MOLON LABE!
Darrell I think most if not all agree with every word of that. HOWEVER, there "should" be a law or dozens of laws that allow for the other person to be prosecuted and locked up. Self-control, discipline and personal responsibility must apply to both parties if the law is to be an equitable one. Why should the person that sticks a microphone in my face, your face, or the face of an elected official, then set out to ask questions designed to elicit a verbal or physical attack be allowed to get away with it without fear of being prosecuted for such behavior?
Why does the system of laws only address the physical violence side of the equation? In mt caveman mind the behavior of the antagonist is just as egregious as a punch in the snoot.
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
Dan, there's no law against obnoxious behavior, unless it violates something else. Maybe chalk this up to your version, and mine, of what isn't "fair," but legal.
Should there be a "law" against sticking a recorder in someone's face and asking them repetitive, obnoxious questions? I dunno. That's a slippery slope you travel when you start legislating that type of behavior, which is probably why it hasn't been done.
Is there "any" law that would prohibit similar--if not identical--behavior?
I think there is.
For example, in some of the versions I read, it was stated the reporter wasn't where he was supposed to be, at a time in which he wasn't supposed to be there. Trespass could cover that.
Invasion of privacy, as a tort, could potentially apply to someone who insists upon "invading your personal space," but who among us wants to see the courtrooms even more cluttered with that kind of lawsuit? I dunno, but if it acts as a deterrent? Maybe.
But bottom line, you and I will respectfully agree to disagree on your last point. I do not, cannot, and will not accept that someone sticking a microphone in my face--which has happened to me in roles as a lawyer, as a board member of a nonprofit corporation, and as a coach, ever justifies a physical response. Morally, I will never agree with that. Physical responses are for self-defense. I can ignore the person, utilize whatever verbal means I wish, or even a gesture, if I am so inclined.
Three weeks ago I pulled up behind a truck at a stoplight. I was in a tremendous hurry to get to a choir banquet (I know, don't judge me). I was late. The light turned green. I waited a second, then politely beeped the horn. The truck didn't move. I held the horn down a good second after that. The truck started, then stopped, then the driver flipped me off.
I won't admit to my behavior, but was the driver justified in flipping me off? Would I be justified in beating the crap out of him if he did?
No, sir, I'm not going to agree with you there.
Agreed, 100%. Personally, I think this behavior alone shows he is unfit to hold office. Unfortunately, 1) it happened after most mail in ballots had been submitted and 2) most R's and D's will vote that way even if their candidate kills someone (as long as that someone is from the other tribe).
Also, from what I hear it is not surprising for most of his employee's so take that what you will.
I don't think it's close enough to self defense to reach it with a satellite phone.Sorry, I disagree with everyone who thinks sticking a recorder in your face justifies a physical assault. You guys should go to jail when that occurs. It's not self defense, and any reasonable person knows that. It's your response to someone being obnoxious.
If I used that standard, I would assault a dozen people a day. Mostly lawyers. But we deserve it.
Self-control, discipline and personal responsibility mandates that you don't resort to physical assault unless you are defending yourself. You know the difference. We all do.
Legally what he did has no good defense. I get his frustration but you can't beat on someone bc they make you mad. A lot of the current protestors could learn that lesson too.
The law to use against the reporter was probably trespass. He was in the office without permission and it wasn't a press conference. He needed to walk out, get some security to walk him out.
But he wasn't going to lose over this. In part bc people will vote the party line no matter what but in part bc conservatives know the media as a whole is only a propaganda arm for the left and were so sick of it it's hard to work up much empathy for them. No we can't go around beating them up, but the level of frustration with the bias out there is so very high.
The media true to form blamed Trump bc he's been so anti media. What they don't get is he didn't give us the idea. Conservatives have long seen the bs treatment we and our views get, he just put voice to it.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
I did want to add though that outside that realm, and why a lot of people won't be too upset w him, extra legal handling of people who are jerks is well established in this country.
If some guy sits at a bar and starts insulting your girl no its not legal to beat him up, but it's not going to be seen as wrong by much of middle America either. Now this is not really the same, but it is in that vein esp for people who see the liberal media as not much better than a drunk insulting people at a bar.
As for the Trump angle one could argue as much blame goes on the media as him of not more for not being balanced and objective. Not that either is really at fault but cnn and the rest actively were arguing this was due to trumps rhetoric about them, only proving his and our point.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
If this had happened in a MT bar, I doubt charges would have been filed. I learned a long time ago bars are a good place to guard my mouth and behavior. The reporter came to provoke a fight and he got one. That's just a robust Friday night in many bars here.
The sale of Greg's company to Oracle has put my town on the high-tech map. Met a couple of his ex-employees and their Venture capitalist yesterday. The RightNow oak dropped a lot of acorns in the form of newly multimillionaire programmer employees who have started successful companies.
He deserved to get rich. He was on my first piece of literature in my first campaign. I was shocked that he didnt hold his temper but then, I've learned a lot of lessons the hard way too. He's my congressman now and won fairly. The Democrats wanted a full-on mail ballot election, made it a huge issue when R's didnt authorize one, and now they have no room to complain about mail-in timing.
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