Dallas shooter did not use an AR-15...

[KeithKSR]

Johnson used an SKS, which is a WW2 vintage semiautomatic rifle. It has a fixed magazine and uses an intermediate cartridge; it was not included on the '94 assault weapons ban list.

[CitizenBBN]

I hope this doesn't come off as insensitive, but that's an interesting choice for many reasons.

He could have modified it to take detachable duckbill magazines, did they say if it was modified? I heard reports he had mags full of ammo on him, I wonder if it was 10 round stripper clips and the media once again got it wrong. Stripper clips are definitely WWII vintage. I guess an image of the gun being released would be too much to ask, that would tell us immediately. The detachable duckbills can be bought in 30 round capacity but they arent' reliable, the limit is really about 20 rounds, that's the standard size for the high cap SKS mags.

Either way, as I said in the other thread if he was intending to be a sniper any number of rifles would do the job. It's sounding like he may have intended a much larger attack including pipe bombs, he just decided to use the protest as his rallying cry instead of waiting for his original timetable.

[dan_bgblue]

CBBN, if you take the time to look at the somewhat out of focus, long range, and pixilated image that were taken of the shooter holding the weapon that night, there is a magazine protruding from the bottom of the weapon that I suspect is a 20 round detachable mag. Just my best guess

[CitizenBBN]

I'm betting that's the case Dan. But that's a terrible choice compared to other options, from any angle. It's not the best weapon for accuracy and handling, and if he was going to make quick mag changes the SKS is the worst choice even with the duckbills.

Sorry, I feel like I'm being horribly insensitive to discuss this in light of the situation, but it is the case.

It does though go to the point that this task could have been accomplished with equal deadliness with any number of basic hunting rifles. Heck, many swear that the stripper clips are faster than changing the duckbill mags. He could have used a M1 Garand or an old Springfield and done as much damage.

[suncat05]

In listening to the sound of the shooting in progress, to me it did not sound like an AR-15. But I was just going by what my ears perceived. And as mentioned before, the images broadcast and the angles from which they were taken did not give impression that it "wasn't" an AR-15. But each weapon makes its own distinctive sound when fired, and to me it didn't sound like the rifle I know very well.

[KeithKSR]

I hope this doesn't come off as insensitive, but that's an interesting choice for many reasons.

He could have modified it to take detachable duckbill magazines, did they say if it was modified? I heard reports he had mags full of ammo on him, I wonder if it was 10 round stripper clips and the media once again got it wrong. Stripper clips are definitely WWII vintage. I guess an image of the gun being released would be too much to ask, that would tell us immediately. The detachable duckbills can be bought in 30 round capacity but they arent' reliable, the limit is really about 20 rounds, that's the standard size for the high cap SKS mags.

Either way, as I said in the other thread if he was intending to be a sniper any number of rifles would do the job. It's sounding like he may have intended a much larger attack including pipe bombs, he just decided to use the protest as his rallying cry instead of waiting for his original timetable.

I doubt the media would know the difference in a magazine and a stripper clip. I still have the original fixed 10 round magazine on my SKS; the duckbill magazines aren't easy to use, or reliable. This is not a weapon I would choose as my first option for defending myself.

New reports indicate that the shooter used a Saiga AK74.

[suncat05]

I saw a post on FB yesterday about the SKS rifle he used. Do not have any idea how authentic the post is, but the SKS shown has some pretty nice work done on it, IF that is the actual rifle that was used. The stock was not the standard wooden stock, it appeared to be fiberglass. It had an adjustable stock, a pistol grip, an aftermarket flashhider, although I couldn't tell exactly what kind, what appeared to be an ACOG sight, and what looked like to me to possibly be a PMAG magazine.
While the rifle itself is some cheap stuff, the other items are some decent upgrades, especially the stock, sights and magazines.
Again, I do not know if the post and the picture are authentic, just relaying what I saw.

[suncat05]

A Saiga AK-74? IIRC, I heard reports that the caliber was a 7.62 x 39 round, which IIRC the AK-74 is a smaller round than that, although off the top of my head I don't remember at this moment. Unless Saiga cross mixes the different calibers?
Was it the 5.45 x 39 caliber?

[CitizenBBN]

I saw a post on FB yesterday about the SKS rifle he used. Do not have any idea how authentic the post is, but the SKS shown has some pretty nice work done on it, IF that is the actual rifle that was used. The stock was not the standard wooden stock, it appeared to be fiberglass. It had an adjustable stock, a pistol grip, an aftermarket flashhider, although I couldn't tell exactly what kind, what appeared to be an ACOG sight, and what looked like to me to possibly be a PMAG magazine.
While the rifle itself is some cheap stuff, the other items are some decent upgrades, especially the stock, sights and magazines.
Again, I do not know if the post and the picture are authentic, just relaying what I saw.

I can't speak to whether it's his or not either, but sounds like a Tapco upgrade.

Tapco makes polymer stocks for the SKS, and a lot of people deck them out with the tapco collapsible stock, picatinny rails, etc. Depending on what the flash suppressor looked like it might have been a yugoslavian rifle, they come with a pretty big suppressor.

[suncat05]

It was a decent picture, clear, but not enough for good detailed identification. I'm sure all of the pertinent small details will come out once the DPD decides to explain what they have found.

[KeithKSR]

It was a decent picture, clear, but not enough for good detailed identification. I'm sure all of the pertinent small details will come out once the DPD decides to explain what they have found.

The DPD chief says they will have a news release giving details on the weapons he used. If it is the Saiga AK74 it will be the 5.45x39 round.

[suncat05]

Thanks for the news, Keith. Yeah, that 5.45 x 39 round is some nasty business there, almost as good as our 5.56 mm round that our rifles use. Would not want to be on the wrong end of either.

[dethbylt]

I doubt the media would know the difference in a magazine and a stripper clip. I still have the original fixed 10 round magazine on my SKS; the duckbill magazines aren't easy to use, or reliable. This is not a weapon I would choose as my first option for defending myself.

New reports indicate that the shooter used a Saiga AK74.

Media->"Automaic Machine Gun of Death"

[CitizenBBN]

Media->"Automaic Machine Gun of Death"

Handgun of any type --> Glock --> Plastic Gun that goes through metal detectors


I thought I posted back on this. I saw it confirmed, it's a Saiga (Izhmash) 5.45 caliber.

Again, I don't want to sound callous by discussing the technical aspects of this, but this is an odd choice all the way around. There are certainly 5.45 cals out there there but not many, it's a long way down the list after the AR's 5.56 platform and the AK/SKS 7.62x39.

Saiga makes a good gun, but in general the AK 47/74 platform is even a little less accurate than a quality SKS and definitely less than a good AR. It's advantages are that it's rugged and reliable and the smaller caliber means you can carry more rounds per pound.

I bring it up b/c I think it ties to what the Dallas PD are saying that he was planning a much bigger and different attack, and changed plans to go with the protest. He wasn't planning on a short lived sniper attack but a longer bomb driven engagement of mayhem. That's why he was getting training in shooting on the move, he was going to be a roaming attacker flinging pipe bombs as he went.

As bad as this was, he was planning to make it much worse.

[KeithKSR]

Handgun of any type --> Glock --> Plastic Gun that goes through metal detectors


I thought I posted back on this. I saw it confirmed, it's a Saiga (Izhmash) 5.45 caliber.

Again, I don't want to sound callous by discussing the technical aspects of this, but this is an odd choice all the way around. There are certainly 5.45 cals out there there but not many, it's a long way down the list after the AR's 5.56 platform and the AK/SKS 7.62x39.

Saiga makes a good gun, but in general the AK 47/74 platform is even a little less accurate than a quality SKS and definitely less than a good AR. It's advantages are that it's rugged and reliable and the smaller caliber means you can carry more rounds per pound.

I bring it up b/c I think it ties to what the Dallas PD are saying that he was planning a much bigger and different attack, and changed plans to go with the protest. He wasn't planning on a short lived sniper attack but a longer bomb driven engagement of mayhem. That's why he was getting training in shooting on the move, he was going to be a roaming attacker flinging pipe bombs as he went.

As bad as this was, he was planning to make it much worse.

The findings of the search of his home seem to have been overblown. A report I read said the considerable bomb making materials amounted to some acetone and a pound of tannerite. His "arsenal" consisted of one additional .22 rifle.

I wonder if the reasoning for the 5.45 round was the old thinking that it inflicted more damage by the bullet tumbling. This was proven to not be true when ballistic tests were conducted, but if the shooter heard of the old tumbling rumors he could have believed he would do more damage than with the 5.56 or 7.62x39 rounds.

[suncat05]

Thinking about this more, and to me something is not adding up. The shooter was a US Army Reserve veteran. He had extensive training with an M16A2 -or- M4 variant. So he had to be well trained and knowledgeable in those weapon platforms. Why would a trained soldier not use a weapons platform that he has knowledge of? Except for the differences in cost, it doesn't make sense. But then shooting 12 cops doesn't make sense either.
There is more to this than we ate seeing. JMHO.

[KeithKSR]

Thinking about this more, and to me something is not adding up. The shooter was a US Army Reserve veteran. He had extensive training with an M16A2 -or- M4 variant. So he had to be well trained and knowledgeable in those weapon platforms. Why would a trained soldier not use a weapons platform that he has knowledge of? Except for the differences in cost, it doesn't make sense. But then shooting 12 cops doesn't make sense either.
There is more to this than we ate seeing. JMHO.

An AR15 variant can be had for $550 and up. The Saiga's I've looked up today are higher, probably because of the ban on Russian arms. It seems pretty unusual to me for a guy trained on an M16 since the late 60's to opt for a more expensive AK variant.