Protest and two snipers apparently involved. One suspect killed.
What a country we live in. Where does this end?
Protest and two snipers apparently involved. One suspect killed.
What a country we live in. Where does this end?
@CBSNews: UPDATE: 12 officers shot, 5 killed, by snipers in #Dallas; continuing coverage on CBSN http://cbsn.ws/29rpXY3 http://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/75...686400/photo/1
Very sad news to wake up to this morning.
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
This all tracks directly to Obama and Holder's feet, when they pronounced racism in a rush to judgement in Ferguson over Michael Brown's assault on Darren Wilson, which led to Brown's death when Wilson defended himself.
Originally Posted by KeithKSR
I agree. He panders to the African American race baiters yet scolds anybody who judges any other race, be it Arabs or Mexicans (Latinos-yes, I know "Mexican" isn't a race).
I'm not convinced the police shootings in either MN or LA were justified and if not I hope the offics are appropriately punished. However the encouragement of civil disobedience and VIOLENCE (which is what They did in both Baltimore and Freguson) actively encourages this type of reaction
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
Pretty much right on point in my view.
MOLON LABE!
Whenever there is a Muslim terrorist attack they are quick to urge people not to rush to judgment. And yet, when there is a police-involved shooting, it’s “Guilty, Guilty, Guilty
Sums it up pretty well imo.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
There are some less divisive, more productive discussions out there. Like the lady says, we can either be part of the solution or the problem.
That goes for all of us imo.
When discussing racial issues, if it ends in hate, then it likely began with hate.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breaki...cid=spartandhp
Last edited by kingcat; 07-08-2016 at 06:30 PM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
kingcat, if it were left up to a huge majority of the country's citizens there would be plenty of peace and getting along. Sadly there is a very small minority of the citizens that are shouting the loudest on all sides of every issue, and that small minority winds up on the national news nightly. They have a vested interest in causing discord and inciting people to mistrust their neighbor and the law enforcement community. Some of their activity is overt like black lives matter organizers shouting things like the only good cop is a dead cop and some of it is much more subtle, but it is available for public consumption. This can cause people that feel disenfranchised or disaffected to do things like shoot up a portion of the Dallas law enforcement community. jmho
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
The militarization of law enforcement via the war on drugs has done a lot too. In many jurisdictions, a large percentage of the police force view themselves as indescriminate enforcers of law, instead of protecting and serving. This goes for how they treat ANYONE who is not rich and white.
Also, like it or not, but blacks are OFTEN treated differently by the police than white people like you or me. I have seen it first hand too many times to count (often as the passenger in a car of an african american friend). heck, back in college I had a friend who drove a very stereotypical african-american car and he was pulled over easily 5-10x more often than the rest of us (even though he is white and honestly a meticulous driver). I have also heard how a few police talk outside of work. Two of the ONLY times in my life where I have been in the company of someone who used the n-word actively and regularly like it was still the 1950s were with off-duty police officers. One from Lexington, KY and one from NYC. This is NOT to paint all police in a bad brush, there are a majority which are good. The fact is though, just as you mentioned about the small minority in the BLM movement causing issues, there are a small minority in the police force which are causing these issues.
This is the latest symptom in a problem which has been ongoing for a long long time. There is NO easy answer to the problem because there african american community issues, police issues, white racism issues, legacy of slavery and prejudcie issues, economic issues, education issues and on and on and on. Any attempt to point the finger in one direction is ONLY seeing the smaller picture. There is no easy answer and it might take a LOT of chaos before our society can come out the other side as a better society. Even then, it isn't guaranteed because there are politicians on BOTH sides that want this to continue. it keeps them in power.
I need to reiterate, this is NOT to paint all police in a bad light. I know quite a few that are good and honest ppl, suncat included (I respect the hell out of him). This also doesn't mean there are not huge cultural issues in many police forces in many cities in how they view their position with respect to dealing with community.
EDIT: One more thing, the BIGGEST and most DANGEROUS thing I see going on right now is an increase in tribalism between factions. You are either an ally of BLM or you are racist. You hate BLM or you are a liberal scum. You are either a supporter of the police or you hate cops. This is completely unnacceptable to me, because the answers are NEVER black and white and are often answers we don't initially see. Untangling something this complex will NEVER. This extends well beyond just this issue, the polarization keeps getting stronger and stronger and is one of the more dangerous things to the state of our union and BOTH sides are responsible for it.
Last edited by PedroDaGr8; 07-08-2016 at 11:00 PM.
Some good points all around. We must step back and get a proper perspective on things as a whole.
I know it's not the 'wise thing to believe, but I think there is a greater deceit going on than we want to think. And neither political party, nor any president, congressman or public servant is behind it.
It is in what we are being fed mentally every day by the news media. We are just like players in a reality show, having our opinions formed for us slowly and subtly. To force us to look one direction while being divided and conquered from within.
We're also fighting an enemy which conveniently has no nation to attack nor definition for victory. It will never end folks...at least not until God ends it.
The political divide is being manipulated by people with billions of dollars at their disposal, some even well known citizens of other countries with backgrounds in such deceit. Rush Linbaugh, MSNBC, Fox "News", right and left wing political blogs, and many others from all sides have nearly destroyed our nation and way of life. Left wing and right wing, conservative and liberal, black versus white,and on and on.
News isn't reported, it's commented on. And in many cases, carefully fabricated. Not since Nazi Germany has propaganda been so rampant. The end game is even more terrifying however. Not to take over the world by force, but have it handed over willingly.
Everything is being staged as a sport with two distinct sides. Bitter rivals who are conditioned to hate and consider it a good thing to do so.
Our perception being trained to blame each other for every little or major attack on our way of life.
Good is now evil and evil is good, and such deceit will only grow stronger until Christ finally intervenes. But first, the whole world will be fooled into believing a lie...that time is quickly approaching my friends. And many a very wise man and woman will believe it.
Last edited by kingcat; 07-09-2016 at 12:54 AM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
The guy did time on a weapons charge but they report it unrelated. sad stuff.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
The conflict is straight out of Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals."
Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.
War on Drugs
Police forces hiring almost all MP type vets
Both of these I see up close.
Gangs and the destruction of the black family by the system
The President drumming the race war drumbeat.
Most of all, cops dont meet the people we do, dont see the same society we see. Not in St Paul, not in Bozeman, not in Dallas.
That is a point that I have not seen discussed and it is a very important oneMost of all, cops dont meet the people we do, dont see the same society we see. Not in St Paul, not in Bozeman, not in Dallas.
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
See what I am talking about when mentioning those that shout the loudest?
It happens on both sides of any controversial issue in this country
Soon after Thursday night’s attack in downtown Dallas that killed five police officers and wounded nine others, the co-founder of the Huey P. Newton Gun Club, Yafeuh Balogun, tweeted: “I have no remorse for the Dallas Police Officers shot downtown, it’s about time.. at the protest etc.”
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
That is a Black Panther group in case anyone is interested.
I was an MP in the Army. Good training, good experience, and most importantly, good discipline. That experience has been invaluable to both my career AND my life. I do not regret one second of that experience.
Another item mentioned by bigsky is also true, and few people even think of this in that perspective: many of the people that I and most other LEO'S deal with are NOT nice or good people. Not all, but most. There's that word again: perspective.
MOLON LABE!
My wife and I were discussing this exact point during a 9.5 hour car ride yesterday. I've had some small dealings with being in that environment due to some things I've worked with over the years (is that vague enough?), and it's just a different world. It's hard to project what "we" see each day with what "they" experience in real life on a daily basis.
Great points by both of you.
To drive home the point we only need to look at the lengthy criminal records most of these "innocent victims" of police involved incidents.
The great guilt ridden middle American mass just has no clue what it's like to be a cop or deal with that world. None.
I barely touched on it, but I did some growing up, and I imagine that's part of what has made me a bit more cautious and aware than many around me, and less naive. There's a whole subculture in this country of people who don't give a crap about the values of respecting others and oneself, and the police deal with it every day and protect the rest of us from that group.
It doesn't justify being racist, but it does justify being suspicious and even overtly authoritative when engaging in a situation until they know what is going on.
We should always guard against abuse by law enforcement, but I invite any hang wringing middle class person upset with it to go do their job for a week, and for those who live in those depressed communities where so much police attention is needed I think the Dallas chief said it best: get on the same side as the police and start working together to be part of the solution.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
Yep.
So far the only one of late that is dissimilar is the shooting in Wisconsin. In that case I won't defend the officer b/c you absolutely cannot pull the trigger till you see a threat, and I think he pulled when the guy just didn't heed the order to not move his hands, but it's also the case that the guy needed to not move his hands.
Doesn't excuse the officer, I imagine you can't find a cop who doesn't know that it comes with the job that you are taking that risk and must wait till there is clear danger, but I do wonder why the guy didn't just hold his hands up and not move.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
Citizen what you said is so clearly accurate for so many of us. We don't know what police go through daily. Many of don't understand what soldiers do either. That has to be considered before spouting off. I agree with you.
It doesn't justify abusing the badge or becoming so callous as to forget to protect the people. But we have to have a better understanding of what law enforcement faces everyday and support them. By all accounts the police department in Dallas has really done a good job of working with folks.
With this understanding I think we will have a better understanding also how to improve their training and what we as citizens can do to be better citizens too.
The bad apples in every profession and the bad decisions made by good people unfortunately stand out. Bad police work makes the news because by definition it is out of the norm. Just like not every hot, young good looking female teacher is having sex with their students.
It is newsworthy. But the good ones in a profession that are in a position to abuse power whether it is police or teachers or the clergy should be quick condemn wrong behavior and work to ensure it doesn't happen again. Dick Vitale never met a coach who was not great and the Vatican seemed to ignore predator priests. How often do police stand up against police who do wrong?
On matters of race, we as a nation have not always treated folks right. We all have to deal with that legacy. It starts with each of us trying to be good neighbors to all.
One other point that needs to be made, even criminals and the worst of us have rights. Rodney King was not a role model or a good guy but he didn't deserve to be beaten like he was. I don't care what he did. He did not deserve to be beaten. He was not innocent and in God's eyes none of us are. But Rodney King was a victim at the hands of law enforcement.
Now those police officers were acquitted of beating a man and it is quite possible that the laws are written in such a way that police can do that and it be legal.
The rules of engagement and the training police get could be such that police can act that way.
At one time British soldiers could come in our homes whenever they wanted. Being legal doesn't make something right.
Emmett Till was most likely an obnoxious smart ass who very well could have made unwanted and inappropriate comments to a woman(en) who happened to be white. He did not deserve to be beaten to death for acting like a jerk.
Those college kids who tried to sign up blacks in Mississippi to vote did not deserve to die. They made a lot of people angry and law enforcement down there helped kill them.
And those police officers in Dallas doing their job did not deserve to die either.
Who is my neighbor? We all have to ask that question. And when we ive the right answer things are easier.
Respect is a two way street. We must respect representatives of the law. Representatives of the law must respect the citizenry otherwise they are tyrants.
But still.........I do not know a thing about Indiana law, but besides being a convicted felon in possession of a handgun and ammunition, and unlawfully discharging a firearm multiple times, it probably is also illegal to discharge a firearm into a vehicle and a occupied domicile too.
Or maybe the guy just wants to go back to his prison cell. For some people, prison is home.
MOLON LABE!
BTW Im glad they blew the (expletives deleted) up. Despite the handwringing by liberals and even my libertarian colleagues, he was sniping cops; cops get to snipe back. I only wish they'd used a flamethrower.
Not sure why anyone would be upset they blew him up. to me it's ingenious. Talks broke down, he was holed up, no reason to let any threat continue.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
I'd have hit the button myself.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
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