Obama said today at his news conference there will be no change in his strategy to fight Isis because it's working. No reason to not allow refugees in from Syria. Was very defensive to reporters on what he is doing
I think he is still on wacky weed
Obama said today at his news conference there will be no change in his strategy to fight Isis because it's working. No reason to not allow refugees in from Syria. Was very defensive to reporters on what he is doing
I think he is still on wacky weed
He might be the President of the United States of America, but there is zero doubt in my mind that he hates America & Americans, and that in reality he & everyone in his administration are true enemies of our country.
MOLON LABE!
Agaiin, committed to political ideology rather than doing the right thing..
"It is not just my view but the view of my closest military and civilian advisers that that would be a mistake," Obama said, adding that's "because we would see a repetition of what we've seen before, which is if you do not have local populations that are committed to inclusive governance and who are pushing back against ideological extremes, that they resurface, unless we're prepared to have a permanent occupation of these countries."
I do think this is a very valid point.
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
Arm the Kurds, train them up, give them logistical and air support, and they can defeat ISIS. Zero doubt in my mind about that. And somewhere along the way some of the Christians in the middle east will join the fight too, and ISIS will be decimated to the point where they will be impotent and irrelevant.
It can be done. The political will and intestinal fortitude to do so must exist and be exercised. But none of that will happen under this current Communist & Muslim sympathizer administration.
MOLON LABE!
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
Dan, I understand, however. If those locals see NO help from the US and with their pitiful weapons, it would suicide for them to even try to fight back. Look how many of their families have been slaughtered, beheaded, rape their women and children. And they knew we were not going to do anything other than an occasional drone strike or a few bombs. They did what they had to do to survive and yes so e of the young boys joinedOriginally Posted by dan_bgblue
Had we unleashed what we are capable of, armed the Kurds with that $500,000 million we spent on 50 Syrian rebels I believe things would be different
Nor do I believe Obamas military gave him that advice except for the ones who are yes sir men wanting a promotion or to keep from being demoted and kicked out.
This is about as big as in idiotic statement as it can get and insulting too. There is no one that seeks the office of President that doesn't have a deep love of their country and an immense desire to make it a more perfect union. NOBODY. It doesn't matter what side of the political spectrum for which you sit. You basically sacrifice the privacy of your and your families life for the rest of your and their lives.
Disagree or dislike all you want, but when anybody makes statements like this, there's just too many words to describe how crazy, or just sad, that is.
ISIS, Al Qaeda, what ever you want to call them, can't be defeated. It's the same as saying that you can defeat crime. There will always be people that will want to kill in the name of religion, or any other reason, that has means to assemble, fund themselves exert influence and recruit that will need to be dealt with, for the rest of humanity.
It's crazy to think that any one country, one president, one policy can eliminate evil. It's all about how you contain evil. Every President will have to deal with it. As long as Democracy thrives, there will be people that want to take it down. There is ZERO doubt in my mind about that.
You don't have the answers, I don't have the answers and many people above our pay grades with actual inside information don't have the answers either. They never will. There will never be consensus, unless we're attacked, which is almost a certainty that will happen again one day.
I hate how divisive this country has become. More people would rather blame those that don't see things their way instead of accepting that the world is a dangerous place with risk of anything happening at a given time and work together to actually solve problems that have solutions, even if they don't work, for which we need to be ready for those outcomes to.
He deeply believes his strategy is working and is willing to accept this type of causality. Such acts are just demonstrations like Ferguson, Baltimore, UMizzou, "occupy wall street" etc. taken to the next level. I have little doubt he sees them as acceptable losses so that the oppressed can express their displeasure. His core beliefs is that violence is an acceptable way to right what you feel is wrong. His circle of friends includes people who have carried out terrorism in this country and he sees that as an acceptable method of change. He has endorsed it in the past and in the present, so why would why he find such act as horrific as most people?
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
Dan, nothing wrong with permanent occupation, the trick is who is doing the actual occupying.
The way it has worked best in the past is to set up a local regime that can keep things in check, they become the occupying force and we support them with arms and money.
So in Egypt we need to back the military, who have maintained order there for decades. In Syria we needed to cut a deal with Assad long ago. In Iraq we could have put the Baathists back in charge, just not Saddam.
It's cold blooded, but the truth is that not everyone is ready for the rule of law and individual equality and the democratic systems that come with that belief system. ideally we find regimes that aren't more repressive than is necessary, like in Egypt.
That's been the mistake all along. We're trying to install the rule of law and basic equality at the point of a gun on societies that don't believe in the rule of law or that people are basically equal.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
I could agree with you to a point Stu, but ISIS isn't just a bunch of individuals in a cave in Pakistan as Al Qaeda was. They control a large portion of land with income from oil fields they control. It's a de facto State. They also can buy, steal and apportion arms where and to whom they choose. To me, you need to stop their funding via oil sales and stop their communication via Internet and they will die as an entity.
CBBN, I completely agree with you. The US has done a lot of just that in the past and in some cases it worked fine and in others, well in others the warlord sheep herders reared their ugly heads and we cut bait instead of fixing the problem.
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
It has its failures as well as successes, but you're living on borrowed time. The sands shift a lot, but the alternative of hoping these areas suddenly embrace a western ideal that they simply don't accept, is an even worse course of action.
The problem is that most of these leaders become megalomaniacal loonies themselves. If we can keep regimes from becoming like that, like Egypt, then things work pretty well. But Egypt has long been more stable than much of the region.
So when you get a Shah of Iran or a Saddam you have to replace them if at all possible before it blows up. it's a cold, calculated, and honestly very un-American approach, but Real Politik has shown to be the most effective approach overall even with it not being anything how we'd LIKE to behave, b/c the world isn't the way we'd like it to be.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
You know you are correct but there are those who think you are crazy and they ard the ones who vote for nuts like Obama, believe his sch tick, and will accept what Isis is going to do to us rather than fight back and decimate their asses. Isis loves those people and so does the Obamas of the world
Anyone, president or not, who refuses to acknowledge dead soldiers or call a murdering Muslim a terrorist does not love this country. Who packs his clothes for a Vegas trip while our consulate is burned and 4 of our men are murdered and Obama never so es to the situation room or confers eith his SEC of defense does not love this country
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34836030
This is the type of ongoing operation that goes unnoticed here. It's
much easier to declare we dropped m-80's on a Tonka truck factory. and continue to bash our country.
Sorry, it doesn't make for good ole' War TV
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34836030
This is the type of ongoing operation that goes unnoticed here. It's
much easier to declare we dropped m-80's on a Tonka truck factory. and continue to bash our country.
Sorry, it doesn't make for good ole' War TV
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
The first rule of U.S. military doctrine is to destroy enemy communications, supply & logistics, equipment & materials, and their personnel.
We are not doing this in a precise, well thought out, and evenly calculated manner. And what we are doing isn't getting the job done.
MOLON LABE!
Stu, we are just going to have to agree that we disagree on this.
I know what I see when I see it. And this president's actions speak volumes of his disdain and disrespect towards America & Americans. And you can say I'm wrong until hell freezes over, but again, I know what I see when I see it.
Maybe someday you will see it. I just hope that by then it is not too late.
MOLON LABE!
I agree with this. There will always be a threat and always be evil that wants to destroy this country. Part of keeping us safe means acknowledging and recognizing who they are and defining them. Unfortunately I don't believe we have a President and advisers who are willing or able to do that. However for me, I can live with that. He (and she-as in Hilary) doesn't want to recognize that its radical Muslims that want to destroy us, fine. They can't say those words, so be it. However they do need to realize the threat is real, that it actually exists and why it exist. Its not because of some stupid video, or a handful of people, or because of some other fabricated crap. These murdering SOB's are also a very real threat, a bigger threat than CO2 emission or some other half baked eco bullcrap. As for hating how divided the country is, I agree. But what I hate is that all the blame for that goes to the GOP, the party of NO. Seems that unless you agree and do whatever King Obama wants then you are divisive and an obstructionist. He has made it clear from day one that he isn't the president of the people, he is the president of the democratic party and that the republicans need to shut up and do what he wants. So put part of the blame where it belongs, 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. I don't believe he hates America. I just believe he doesn't see America as I do. His idea of what it is and what it should be are totally different than mine. He believes that America should be a nanny state where if you can't make it then the government makes your decisions and takes care of you. I believe that it should be a place where you make your own choices and decisions that determine the outcome, and live with that outcome. You have the ability succeed or the ability to fail, and you live with the consequences of those decisions and choices.
Last edited by Doc; 11-17-2015 at 11:48 AM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
Did you catch where the writer said 'so called' Isis State.
doc, I agree with most everything you say. Totally defeat evil, no can't be done but I bet we can just about totally destroy this current group with saturation bombing, arming the Kurds with everything they want and need and putting in special ops on the ground. And then any time in the future any of these rats show up to start a new group, eliminate them also. Wherever they are, Iraq, Syria, North Africa, I dont' care, just bomb the heck out of them and make them wish they never had lived.
And yes you are correct on the way the republicans are treated, usually what comes out of Hillary or Obama's mouth about this is a lie. Such as not wanting syrian refugees because of their religion which is what Hillary said today, not true, it is because a certain % are isis terrorists that have been planted and will infiltrate this country with the intention of killing citizens and bringing more into the fold. And of course there are those that can't think on their own and will buy it hook line and sinker.
Now why is Obama not doing more, why did he release the sanctions against Iran that is allowing them to put their hands on what $1.5 billiion in assets, build a nuke, and have more money to sponsor more terrorists? Is he in bed with Iran, being influenced by Iran? Why hasn't he taken out Assad? Why hasn't he given the Kurds more in weapons and money to let them do the fighting? Why didn't he give the earlier rebels in Syria help? Why did we spend $500 million to 'teach' 50 rebels we have no idea if they are still alive? $10 million to train each one? The Kurds would have loved $10 million let alone $500 million.
They can't vet those Syrian 'refugees' and Obama knows it and wants them anyone. FIne, put them on the White House lawn with he and whats her name. They can eat Kobe beef from Japan together, big cookout, eat her organic veggies, boogie together.
With our firepower in the air there is no reason we cannot eliminate 99% of them. You put the pressure on them like we did Khadify in Libya and they become much different when the leaders think they are going to die and not some peon who buys into the crap they are taught.
For the life of me, I can't figure out why people get up in arms about why Democrats won't say Radical Islam. Why does it matter? We're talking about savages that recruit and kill based on cartoons of Allah, among other things. There's nothing wrong with parsing words, but there's also nothing wrong with using the term radical Islam. It's really a useless talking point that just adds to divisiveness. One thing that I always say, though, should we also use the term radical Christianity when we're referring to people that kill in the name of Christianity? How would that fly?
A lot of what you're saying about Obama was the same thing with Bush. It's just so much of how we are divided as a country. All the blame doesn't go to the GOP. Do you watch FoxNews? It's just a parade of blame Obama and Democrats. One thing that I'll say about Obama, something like 90% of Republicans don't like him(might be a little high), but the left doesn't like him either. I have a lot of friends that are very liberal and I have trouble finding anyone that approves much of what he's done. I'm a centrist, but left of center(although many of beliefs have no left/right alignment) and I think he's had a good Presidency, not great, but good. I'll add to, that it's very rare that when someone is elected to the Presidency, that the majority leader of the other party vows that week to obstruct and make him a one term President, like McConnell did.
Of course Obama doesn't see America like you do, and that's OK. It's two completely different lenses. I don't see America like he does, like you do, only as I do. Just because people don't see America the same way, doesn't mean we can't work together to solve problems. Perceptions also aren't realities, but a lot of people allow their perceptions to isolate them from reality and that really helps with the divisiveness. It's not an epidemic of one party.
Your last statement, I agree with, but with this topic, I feel like that's what's going on here.
Differences is what makes our country great, but we've moved way beyond that. Now, it's just vitriolic all around, and I fear that we're going to destroy ourselves before the enemies do.
I typically show great respect for the office of the President. Its an incredibly difficult and important job. It has unique stresses and responsibilities. Yet when one actively spends 8 years insulting and belittling roughly 50% of the nation, I have a very hard time maintaining that level of respect. I will always respect the office. As for the man, I might like him as a person but as for doing his job, I despise him because he has done everything in his power to divide this country on every level possible.
Last edited by Doc; 11-18-2015 at 07:54 AM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
Doc, as usual, right on point with laser-like accuracy. Well stated!
MOLON LABE!
He doesn't see it like I do, but in fact it's not OK.
Why not? B/c America is unique in that it wasn't founded by simply being a single ethnicity or region that eventually formed a government, it was founded to pursue a specific set of ideological goals. Specifically it was founded to pursue individual liberty, the "great experiment" of a nation founded in the principles of Rousseau and Locke and Smith with a mission to insure the Rights of Man through pursuit of life, liberty and happiness (property).
obama believes in social justice, and social justice is antithetical to the principles of individual liberty. It is the opposite of individual liberty, based in the principle that we need to intervene in the property and liberty of others to insure an equality of outcome versus an equality of opportunity. The two cannot co-exist.
And it's fine he believes in that personally. What is not fine is that he wants to establish that in America and supplant the "great experiment" with yet another socialist pseudo-utopia. He wants to put social justice outcomes ahead of individual liberty in the priority list, and that's unacceptable.
If I didn't believe in the goals for which this nation was founded, I'd move. He doesn't believe in them, fine, but go establish your anti-liberty world in some place that wants it and doesn't exist for the sake if individual liberty. There are lots more of those than there are of nations like America, go mess them up.
As president he's sworn to uphold the constitution, which is the paper embodiment of the principles of the Rights of Man, but he doesn't in his heart believe in those rights, or at least not in them being nearly as important as everyone having more equal material wealth. That's not OK, b/c this nation is about opportunity, not outcome.
I know that he's not alone here either, but that doesn't help me sleep any better.
That doesn't make him a "traitor" or something, but I don't have to accept that an ideology completely at odds with the founding principles of our nation is "OK" or something we should see as somehow acceptable or competing with one of individual liberty. We're the nation of individual liberty, anyone who doesn't like it is free to take advantage of our complete lack of restriction on leaving.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
Under the previous administration we were attacked on our own soil to as great an extent as our great history has never witnessed.
Then it proceeded to dissolve the freedoms on which this country stood and laid waste the trust of the American people by the most blatant use of disinformation and deceit this country has ever known. They catered to the military industrial complex by lying, manipulating, and bankrupting our nation in pursuit of the perfect enemy. one which cannot be defeated or confined or defined by any geographical region. An attempt to maintain justification for any aggression that suited the right wing agenda of a new world order.,
They wire tapped the American people and lied strait faced when questioned about it in the name of "Homeland Security. They sanctioned and promoted assassination and torture,as well as hired civilian black ops criminal organizations to do their dirty work. The list goes on and on.
Yet, this administration is the anti American one. If that weren't so sickening it would make for some great comedy imho.
I think the world of you folks, and as there is little room for dissent on your forum, I'll believe you are just blinded to the truth of the matter.
I disagree with much in any administration, but the previous one nearly destroyed us for their own gain. In that one there WERE traitors that remain powerful behind the scenes today. And the greatest propaganda machine in history which guided the thinking their constituency remains today, along with it's counterparts which provide fuel to the same extreme.
The goal of dividing this nation and using hate to further hidden agendas has worked like a charm. To a tipping point where sane individuals can blame our own country for things like the attacks on Paris.
What really is sad is that it is not what is feared or what is honestly believed..sadly, it is what is subconsciously desired and hoped for. Hopefully it does not become a death wish for our country and our way of life. I think it too late to turn back now however.
For all of us we must be careful what we wish for. The backlash will be even more extreme each time there is a political change. One can sense the war drums in the background and they are beating indiscriminately and blind to any collateral damage or probable escalation. And the loss of freedom is going to be a perpetual casualty of "war"
"A house divided cannot stand" So much for our future huh?..
And it is not black or white, Muslim or Christian, rich or poor..it is simply Republican and Democrat. That division is irreparable.
Last edited by kingcat; 11-18-2015 at 09:48 PM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
Bush isn't the President. While a good argument, its an old one. In fact its 7 years old now. And many republicans disagreed with much of what Bush did. Many democrats supported what he did. Still, in the Obama administration, the democrats have used their influence, lying and manipulating ways to line their pockets. They have hired their friends and cronies too. No, that type of behavior isn't beneath them. However, unlike under the GOP, they also use government agencies like the IRS to squelch the opposition. You would have to go back to Nixon to find such behavior (of course we know what happened to Tricky Dick for that). Or feed us a line of garbage about how a on line video sparked an attack on an embassy (but "Bush Lied/People Died"..... Under Obama it "WHAT DOES IT MATTER NOW?"). Or they violate federal laws and destroy e-mails, or at the very least utilize unauthorized/nonsecure method to pass them (I am very familiar with this since my wife work for the feds). Do I need to continue on? I haven't even mentioned how many laws are selectively enforce concerning immigration, or how laws are created without congressional discussion or votes, or how votes for laws are bartered (aka bought) for because that is the only method Obamacare could have passed-something that is bound to bankrupt of this nation to a much greater extent than anything GWB ever did. See its great fun, and great deflection to Blame Bush and say he did this when in fact Obama is no better. There is no change. So don't fool yourself into believing there was, is or will be.
But if we want to play the honesty game we can. There was a President before Bush that looked the American people in the eye and lied to their face. So before we get sanctimonious about "Bush lied", lets examine the history of Presidential whoppers. There are quite a few "stains" that we could bring up. And deceit, well I guess it matter what the definition of deceit is? Any trust in the office of the president was being eroded long before Bush took office. That happen when Bill sat in front of America, lied his ass off and was caught red handed doing it. So attack Bush for lying all you want. Just don't do it with a straight face.
Last edited by Doc; 11-18-2015 at 10:47 PM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
Where did I defend the homeland security act?
You ridicule the political divide yet use it just as both parties do, to deflect criticism to the other party.
Bush and the post 9/11 response on both sides had lots of problems, but Bush fundamental ideology is still mostly consistent w individual liberty. The stress of conflict is in the freedom versus security trade-off, and I agree was wrong on that area more than once, but that trade-off has always been with us.
Social justice dismisses the whole idea of a trade-off with liberty and puts it second across the board. Both are dangerous concepts but social justice has proven to be far mote insidious bc if you accept the premise you've already lost. One does have to accept some curtailing of absolute liberty to have some security, you can have that debate without dismissing the importance of liberty.
Rep king a high ranking democrat, is the most pro security official in dc. He scares me like heck. I disagree w how far he would go, but the debate still includes liberty. Debate someone on social justice and they dismiss the whole concept. "You didn't build that" is the secret to why. You aren't fully responsible for your property so you don't really have full claim to it.
That attacks liberty at it's base, where security only pushes against it. Neither is good, one is far worse.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
First off, I'm responding to the general consensus on this political forum, and don't want anyone to think I'm attacking any individual's opinion. The one sided'ness of the situation here forces that. I appreciate all opinions even when I disagree strongly with them. But the fear remains that some here will consider me anti American if I disagree. That is a problem for all of us.
Are you spying on the citizens of the United States versus Did you have sex in the White House is apples and oranges to me. Most of the the American people knew the difference too. One was a witch hunt of historical proportions, the other a near act of treason.
I'm obviously in a huge minority here and like many others won't defend my opinions to such one sided scrutiny. There are two political philosophies at work and neither are perfect. Yet only one is represented on this forum daily.
People seem to ignore that fact and assume they are correct in every circumstance without dissent.
I( cannot recall in the thousands of discussions here one ounce of credit afforded this president. Not one.
Nor is there any respect for the office itself or benefit of doubt given. As if we know every detail oif every situation at the highest level of government...and because we are convinced our media favorites are the only truth. This is a nation of propaganda and that feeds these discussions. The only way to join the discussion here is to spread the left version of the same and put the other side into a defensive position. I refuse.
Last edited by kingcat; 11-19-2015 at 11:07 AM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
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