Terrorist attacks in Paris

[Catonahottinroof]

The question is "will they continue till completion?" I doubt it.....

I stand corrected this morning. Even though their response was limited, the French did respond, as they should have and as is their right to protect themselves.

[suncat05]

Well, I think we all hope that the French do continue their military operations against ISIS. But I agree, their armed response may end up being limited.
There will be other attacks against Western countries. The response to those will be interesting to see and evaluate.

[Catonahottinroof]

It's going t o happen here. It's only a matter of time and stupid politicians will still try to convince us that climate change is the real threat....

[suncat05]

It's going t o happen here. It's only a matter of time and stupid politicians will still try to convince us that climate change is the real threat....

That is why we vote. I dunno, I just get a sense that a good majority of the American people are tired of the political climate and want it to stop. The next general election may not be kind to long term career politicians.

[CitizenBBN]

But that is 20 bombs on obe camp.. Hopefully they will continue as they go after other camps

It sounds like they sustained multiple sorties, so I think they have dropped quite a bit of ordnance beyond what I saw reported. That's good.

[dan_bgblue]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/16/world/...cks/index.html

Other world powers also responded. Britain stepped up security for Tuesday's soccer match between England and France, while the United States reacted to a newly released ISIS video threatening to "strike America in its stronghold, Washington."

CIA Director John Brennan said he would be surprised if the group doesn't have additional attacks in preparation.

"I would anticipate this is not the only operation they have in the pipeline," he said. "I do believe this is something we will have to deal with for quite some time."

[PedroDaGr8]

And you know what, frankly I don't give a damn. They gave it their BEST and killed a maximum 150 people. Is it sad those people died? yes, but this is in a city of millions. Their entire war is psychological because they entirely lack the ability to enact any REAL damage. One day of merciless bombing and we could kill more of them and inflict more damage than they can do in their entire existence, both from a population percentage AND a sheer numbers perspective. My bet is if you ran the numbers, you would be MORE likely to die from being stabbed in a bar fight than from a terrorist attack. I'm not afraid of bar fights and I'm not afraid of terrorists. Let them try their best as we repeatedly bomb them. The worst they will do is kill a few people here and there. If the media would treat it like something to just downplay then we would see their abilities drop even worse. They will try many heinous things but the fact is, THEY ARE WEAK. They have no true power, they have little legitimacy. They control a section of some of the most barren desert wasteland in a country comprised of barren desert wasteland. They are a big fish in a small pond and in time they will find out how truly big the real big fish are.

[suncat05]

Pedro, in a small sense you are right. They are small fish in a big pond. But they're more like pirahnas and not guppies. And yes, there certainly are much bigger fish in that same pond, but when the big fish don't keep the little agitating fish in line, the atmosphere in that pond becomes toxic to all.
And I agree with you also about them owning a small chunk of a very big desert. However, there is another analogy to be cited here: this very same scenario is what played out in the Pacific with the Japanese expansion in Manchuria in 1933, AND how Hitler started his European war in 1939.
No one paid.much attention to the Japanese, and the European powers and the U.S. tried to appease Hitler.
Appeasement does not work with bullies. If you give in to them they bully their victims more & more. How do you deal with a bully? You punch him square in the mouth as hard as you can, and when you get him on the ground you keep punching him until he surrenders. And in this case with this bully called ISIS, if he doesn't surrender or give up you kill him. Dead. And his women, children, cats, dogs, camels, goats, destroy his homes and any other property that he has.
Why? Because that is exactly what they intend to do to us, as they repeatedly tell us over and over again. So.........we kill them before they kill us. It's that simple.

[suncat05]

And I fully understand that you may not totally agree with my assessment of this situation, and Pedro, I respect that and your opinion.
But at the same time this is an enemy whose goal is world domination. He is teaching his women & his children that we are evil and that they should kill us or make us their slaves. He is teaching his children how to kill our children. THAT IS PURE EVIL! The same kind of evil that the world witnessed in 1933 & 1939. And we all know how that horror story worked out.
I cannot, nor will I, in good conscience allow that to happen to my children, or yours, or any other good American people. This kind of evil has to be met with a special kind of relentless and unforgiving force that it will understand and know that it cannot defeat. It's either that, or we all live under their terms or die.
Sorry, but that isn't happening to me & my children. Or you or yours. Or any other Americans.

[PedroDaGr8]

Pedro, in a small sense you are right. They are small fish in a big pond. But they're more like pirahnas and not guppies. And yes, there certainly are much bigger fish in that same pond, but when the big fish don't keep the little agitating fish in line, the atmosphere in that pond becomes toxic to all.
And I agree with you also about them owning a small chunk of a very big desert. However, there is another analogy to be cited here: this very same scenario is what played out in the Pacific with the Japanese expansion in Manchuria in 1933, AND how Hitler started his European war in 1939.
No one paid.much attention to the Japanese, and the European powers and the U.S. tried to appease Hitler.
Appeasement does not work with bullies. If you give in to them they bully their victims more & more. How do you deal with a bully? You punch him square in the mouth as hard as you can, and when you get him on the ground you keep punching him until he surrenders. And in this case with this bully called ISIS, if he doesn't surrender or give up you kill him. Dead. And his women, children, cats, dogs, camels, goats, destroy his homes and any other property that he has.
Why? Because that is exactly what they intend to do to us, as they repeatedly tell us over and over again. So.........we kill them before they kill us. It's that simple.

I am not advocating for appeasement and I apologize if it sounded that way. Your comparison with Japan fails due to scale, at least at this time, Japan had an army of over 6 million at its height, these guys are nowhere CLOSE to that. They have an army of tens to one hundred thousand fighters. That being said, I don't disagree with bombing the heck out of them as the enemy they are. My point was on managing our OWN responses to their actions. Do not react out of fear, do not react out of anger, react out of cold calculated and well thought out ruthlessness. My response was more on how WE as individuals should react and treat their actions every day. I see so many people reacting in fear. Afraid that it will hit where they live, begging for gov We should not clammer in fear for the government to save us. We should not give up essential civil liberties (like our right to privacy) to save us from ISIS. We should say **** you to ISISs scare tactics and treat them like the dogs they are. Deny them their most fundamental tool.

At the same time, to be honest France needs to implement plans to start integrating their huge slums of immigrants into French society. Part of the reason France has had it much worse than anyone else is that they basically bus their immigrants into slums outside the city and make them feel like they will never integrate into society. A good friend of mine is Austrian-Hatian, so she has dark skin and she said she never could live in France (despite speaking fluent Parisian french) because of how blatantly racist they are. She went to school there for two years and suffered racism daily from both classmates and teachers. Similarly, she worked there for about a year and left to work in Austria due to the blatant racism she faced. This type of environment creates a fertile breeding ground for ISIS to recruit and it has to stop.

This situation requires a multi-pronged approach and taking ANY single approach by itself will fail. We can't show weakness otherwise ISIS will exploit it and we will fail. At the same time, we need to implement policies to combat the things that lead to radicalism. Nothing is perfect and there will always be people who follow into the radicalist trap (whether it is white supremacist, islamofacist, IRA, nationalistic extremeist, etc.) but at the same time you can limit it to only the most crazy few and deal with them on your own. Sorry if this comes across as a bit meandering, sometimes it is hard for me to put down "on paper" my thoughts on this situation because it is such a complex and dynamic situation.

[dan_bgblue]

And you know what, frankly I don't give a damn. They gave it their BEST and killed a maximum 150 people.

Pedro, there is much truth in your thoughts but they have done much worse than their best being 150. They killed just shy of 3,000 innocent folks in just one event. That is still a very small percent of the population of this country, but I would feel very angry if a family member had lost their life in that event, or had I been a first responder and am fighting the lasting effects of the dust storm that followed.

Is it sad those people died? yes, but this is in a city of millions. Their entire war is psychological because they entirely lack the ability to enact any REAL damage.

That is true today, but I have no doubt whatsoever that if they could lay their hands on a nuclear warhead and the technical expertise to detonate it, that they would do it in the largest city in the US. They have the money to buy one, buy the expertise and method of delivery, and imo it is only a matter of time before they find someone that will sell both to them. It is as simple as sailing a container ship into New York harbor and giving the command to go boom. How about forgetting nuclear, and thinking about sabotaging an LNG tanker in the same harbor. I really do not think that would be sufficiently more difficult than dropping a Russian passenger plane out of the sky.

One day of merciless bombing and we could kill more of them and inflict more damage than they can do in their entire existence, both from a population percentage AND a sheer numbers perspective. My bet is if you ran the numbers, you would be MORE likely to die from being stabbed in a bar fight than from a terrorist attack. I'm not afraid of bar fights and I'm not afraid of terrorists. Let them try their best as we repeatedly bomb them. The worst they will do is kill a few people here and there. If the media would treat it like something to just downplay then we would see their abilities drop even worse. They will try many heinous things but the fact is, THEY ARE WEAK. They have no true power, they have little legitimacy.

They control a section of some of the most barren desert wasteland in a country comprised of barren desert wasteland.

Unfortunately that wasteland is sitting on enough oil to keep them going and buying all the weapons and supplies they need for way too long.


They are a big fish in a small pond and in time they will find out how truly big the real big fish are.

I agree with that statement, but I do not want it to take as long as the War to end all wars for them to find out. I want hem to find out today.

More people do not deserve to die at their hands

[CitizenBBN]

Pedro is right that this is about terror and not their ability to really inflict crippling casualties or take out a military or industrial complex.

But terror does in fact work, and we are as Dan said at risk of them getting their hands on a real weapon. As Dan said they have the money and infrastructure to make it happen with enough effort.

The real question is if they are truly fascists trying to build their empire or if they are just insane. If they are ruthless but sane then they will stick to these kinds of attacks. They build recruiting and make a huge splash but they will only get a certain level of response from the nation in question.

If they were to be insane and for example ship a nuclear bomb in a cargo container and set it off in the LA port or New York or wherever, then all bets would be off. Politically even Obama would be forced to lead the charge to annihilate them completely. Are they just using Islam as an excuse to drive their power or do they really believe they'll get 72 virgins?

[Doc]

Pedro is right that this is about terror and not their ability to really inflict crippling casualties or take out a military or industrial complex.

But terror does in fact work, and we are as Dan said at risk of them getting their hands on a real weapon. As Dan said they have the money and infrastructure to make it happen with enough effort.

The real question is if they are truly fascists trying to build their empire or if they are just insane. If they are ruthless but sane then they will stick to these kinds of attacks. They build recruiting and make a huge splash but they will only get a certain level of response from the nation in question.

If they were to be insane and for example ship a nuclear bomb in a cargo container and set it off in the LA port or New York or wherever, then all bets would be off. Politically even Obama would be forced to lead the charge to annihilate them completely. Are they just using Islam as an excuse to drive their power or do they really believe they'll get 72 virgins?

It didn't work on Madonna. She didn't let it force her to cancel her concert. No, she stood up and didn't let those terrorist force her to cancel her show this weekend. Kudo's to Madonna. I salute you

[CitizenBBN]

lol Doc, she's certainly an inspiration.

[dan_bgblue]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/17/world/...ort/index.html