OK everyone...take a deep breath. Now let it out s l o w l y.
This is all for fun and reading differing opinions. Let's not take offense at finding diversity of thought on such subjects. I swear...I usually type with a wry smile on my face...I often forget that only comes across to those who know me well.
Point is, let's not let it get too intense around here.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
Intense? Me?
Originally Posted by kingcat
I know, eli, I am REALLY stupid, thus you asserting that "it's not that hard".
I don't have some vast understanding of linguistics, where words begin with their definitions, and how they have changed, but I know few people, and frankly you are the first that I have encountered, who would take the literal "phobia" part of "homophobia" and make it analogous to claustrophobia and the like. I realize, now that you have reminded me of it, that the literal definition of the word, "homophobia" is the "irrational fear" you refer to, yet the definition of words change or can be poorly constructed in their origins to define what it is meant to. I "understand" what you mean by a literal definition, but whatever THAT is, the larger society uses it to mean "prejudice agains GLBT folks", which is exactly what I mean, no more, no less, and having no association with a diagnosable condition that doctors treat.
I don't conceptualize "political opponents". Again, that's your thing. Clearly, I am yours and clearly you believe that having an opinion that homophobia, in the definition that I use and understand in modern life, is real and should be fought makes me the most anti-American "political opponent" you can likely conceive of. I find that very strange.
Do you believe that gay people are psychotic and that they don't know their own sexuality?
"Shut your eyes and you'll burst into flame"
Clearly it could have been an accidental omission but my personal belief is that it wasn't. That might be a 50.1% it was intentional and 49.9% it was accidental. It may be a "gut feeling" or it may be that since there was attention brought to the situation prior to editing of the yearbook that I find it slightly more beiievable that it was intentional than accidental. It may be that since the section was basketball team, a feature sport in the state and he was a starter, the yearbook staff tends to pay more attention to that than say the symphony band. If they forget to include Clyde Smith off the band roster, I'm probably going to lean towards accidental because that stuff happens. It happens in every yearbook. But most don't screw up the basketball team. Its not the band with 100 people who nobody knows. Its the basketball team in Kentucky. Its the starting PG, not the 4th chair tuba player. Again, that me. Doesn't make me homophilic or heterophobic, because like his sexuality, I really don't care either way.
Last edited by Doc; 08-13-2015 at 10:50 PM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
What? I know reading is hard and you've already effectively told us you don't do it by choice, but good grief. Where did you come up with that?
Generally speaking, there do seem to be an awful lot of words you don't know, and your real or (what is far more likely) feigned ignorance makes this a lot of work, Krank. I'm finished. Have a nice evening.
Last edited by elicat; 08-13-2015 at 10:54 PM.
So did you read any of the articles? The reporter has the accuser and 3 other sources telling the SAME story. Then you have the schools involved, including the accusers, say the story is a FABRICATION, and then "coincidentally" his picture gets left out of the senior basketball player tribute and you find it incredulous that some of us see a conspiracy?
Look will anyone ever be able to prove the omission was deliberate? Nope...but on the flip side no one will ever be able to prove is was an innocent mistake either. This is definitely a he said/she said situation, but I can't blame anyone, who like myself, saw smoke and assumed there was a fire.
I could give the school district a little more benefit of the doubt if not for their response to the original accusations, which was to call the accuser and the reporter liars.
Its no sweat off my ass. As I've stated, it could be an omission. Apparently Darrel will ignore that portion. I've not "rushed to condemn then". After reading the article, and all the associated links, I simply don't believe the innocent omission are reporting. The administration may believe it but I don't. They may believe the editor mistakenly omitted. As I stated, my gut feeling is what it is. Since there is no standard of proof, I'm free to believe what I wish and have that standard be what I feel is adequate. However, apparently when one does not agree, then my conclusion was obviously "rushed" because had I prematurely and not fully considered everything, and therefore have come to the incorrect decisions which wasn't that it was obviously an omission by the editors. Anecdotal stories prove omission, plus 16 and 17 year old kids never do anything malicious. I know this because my son said so
Last edited by Doc; 08-13-2015 at 11:43 PM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
elicat: "You use a word that diagnoses people who disagree with you with a fake psychosis that serves your political agenda."
I know you think the sunshine of literacy and extraordinary uber-intelligence shines straight out of your poo-hole, eli, but that sentence above is ridiculous as a definition of "homophobia". It is very poorly constructed in contrast to your simpler (hey, you know us knuckle-draggers need all the help we can get, so thanks for your charity) definition answered later. You know damned well I was defining "homophobia" as simple prejudice against LGBT folks, but you had to quickly construct that weirdness above, that really is saying a lot more than defining "irrational fears" and it is doing so in a confusing way.
Part of that confusion, and I asked you about it in the original reply to that post, made me wonder if you were referring to "fake psychosis" as a definition of gay delusionality. You didn't answer that. So I asked again.
Maybe because I have been very busy outside of this thread and I am tired, I got a little more confused than I should have, but the quote above is still a mixed up mess that includes a reference to me, personally, and how I respond to others, and you include a personal opinion that I am all about an agenda. You don't explain that you are defining the word by it's root literal meaning and you expect me to agree that such defines homophobia. You don't agree that it's confusing. You have made all of that abundantly clear at this point. Unfortunately, all of your condescending extremist political name calling and shotgun posting, including rote ignoring of PLENTY of explaining that I have done about HOW, WHAT, and WHY I read what I read, NEVER remotely inferring that I "never read", yet you bang the drum because it makes you feel superior, I suppose, is freaking WEAK.
But the worst of all is that you, essentially, have called me a liar with that "feigned ignorance" bit. I contend that you were baiting from the moment you slobbered all over Doc's post that the "silence was deafening" or whatever you posted, due to a gap in your post and my reply (again, I have been very busy tonight), assuming, incorrectly, that my delay in response was due to being "gotcha'd" or whatever. That does not leave you with any sort of moral or intellectual high ground IMO. I am sure you disagree.
I, too, have had enough. Maybe someday I will read some Dr. Seuss, but those big words give me a headache. Cool pitchers dough!
"Shut your eyes and you'll burst into flame"
Such stories are great. I recall my HS days as well. I attended a much larger HS, approx 1200 student that was 30 miles from my home due to "busing" so the likelihood of me knowing any random student in my school would be far less than Betsy Lynn HS in rural KY or your daughter's scenario. Agree? In fact back in 1981 I couldn't name one person on the girls swim team except one. Odds are every student at Central High School could ID her because she was the center of a scandal and had recently been the topic of numerous newspaper articles, just like Dalton Maldonado. See when a teacher rapes you, or you announce you're gay, odds are you don't go unnoticed by your classmates.
Looking back through my yearbook I noted places I was omitted or was failed to be recognized as well. I chalked those up to oversights, etc despite being called "gay" a time or two in HS (who wasn't called that in the late 70s and early 80s). However they didn't miss on the important stuff. I'd consider a 2 page spread on the basketball team in the Betsy lynn HS yearbook as important as the Central HS soccer team. I would have been highly suspicious if my HS omitted the team captain, MVP and all state nomination from the page if I were gay and decided to become public.
But you're correct. All that is not relevant to the situation. The question is as simple as who do I believe. I'm less convinced it was an accidental omission. I could be wrong but I don't think so. Crime of the century? No. A huge in justice? Not really. But its a shame because it hurts a young man who represented his school and deserved the recognition. It also makes the school look bad so I hope it was an intentional omission and the negative light that they receive is deserved!
Last edited by Doc; 08-14-2015 at 08:58 AM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
That is why I keep asking Darrell if he has read all of the articles(that have the accuser and 3 other sources all telling the same story, and a 911 dispatcher classifying the 911 call as a report of "terroristic threats", and the school calling Dalton and the reporter liars)...I am actually a little shocked with Darrell's hard line with this issue because I would think that if he had read all of the articles about the issue he would come to understand why some people just can't believe in this "coincidence". This isn't simply a situation where a random student gets randomly left out of the yearbook, that probably happens thousands of times every single year at thousands of high schools around this country. This time though this is a student that has had quite a bit of friction with the administration, and has been called a liar by the administration, that just makes the "coincidence" very "interesting". The fact that Darrell can't seem to understand the other side of this issue just seems out of character with his normal thoughtful discourse.
Also btw, the superintendents "you were in the yearbook 15 times" part of the explanation just goes to show the callous nature in which the administration of Floyd County schools is treating Dalton. The superintendent also states that there were "several different individuals" involved with reviewing the yearbook, but incredibly none of the "several" people happened to notice that the STARTING POINT GUARD, and most controversial member of the team(in their minds) was missing from the senior tribute to the basketball team. Come on now, does that pass the "smell test"? But alas, I have "rushed to condemn them"...
Also as an aside, I have actually followed this situation since it began back in April, so I have not rushed to do anything in regards to what has happened...
Last edited by MTcatfan; 08-14-2015 at 09:40 AM.
Its FOOTBALL time in the Bluegrass...and some basketball talk!!!!
It makes it "interesting" no doubt, but your position that this is some kind of retribution or grudge or other ax to grind requires that administrator(s) knowingly took a swipe at this kid out of spite with everything to lose and nothing to gain.
Like I said it's possible, people can be pretty dang dumb and even self-harming, but just as you see it as too much of a coincidence to not be likely, I see it as too much of an easily avoided crap storm for them to jump into it with their necks out.
Other than not supporting him in this insult thing I know of nothing else they've done against him, and they did that to avoid a controversy and issues. They didn't attack him, they just didn't support him b/c doing so only gives them more work and headaches.
It wouldn't shock me if someone somewhere along the chain did intentionally leave him out, but I doubt it was an "administrative" decision beyond that person, and yes it could just be coincidences.
Garak was right: I believe in coincidences, coincidences happen every day. But I dont' trust coincidences.
So I don't just assume this was an error, but at the same time there have been far more interesting coincidences than this one.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
No, it doesn't mean the administrators took a swipe. It means the student editors may have taken as swipe. Students can be as vindictive as anybody else, and in many cases even more so. Adult usuallyl have a conscience. The students had nothing to lose which is why they could have done it. The administrator have lots to lose which is exactly why they would put forth a "this was an accidental oversight" excuse.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
could definitely have been a student, no doubt.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
We have approximately 440 students in our school, the teacher in charge of the yearbook can't name more than a few starters on our girls or boys basketball teams. This is why I can believe it was an inadvertent omission.
Administrators are pretty much hands off when it comes to yearbooks.
Absolutely. Or a student, who is responsible in my kids' school (and maybe yours, too). And it's generally a nerdy, don't go to games, have their own thing kinda kid--nothing wrong with that, of course.
MT, I'm not trying to ignore you. I've read every word of all articles, and they're pretty lacking in direct correlation, and pretty high in forming an agenda. We've seen sports articles similarly done that have attacked UK or John Calipari, and generally see through them. I'd love to see the same here.
I generally make my point, and find that, in cases like this, there's little convincing of others who hold contrary points. I mean no ill will with it; I just find it pretty much a waste of time to continue down the same trek.
I've given numerous personal examples. I know this to be true, and not fantastical; that there are plenty of scenarios in which the race to condemnation is a lynch mob without evidence.
People can believe what they want to believe. And my belief may be that it was intentional, or it may be that it was negligent. The thing is, my posts do not depend on what a person believes, but what is a fair procedure and what is reasonable and logically consistent.
My post here is a little like George Burns talking to John Denver in, "Oh, God." Denver is frustrated because people don't believe that he's seen God, in the form of George Burns. Burns tells him that his job is done in just sewing the seeds. I don't get frustrated anymore since I adopted that position; and I find generally others don't get frustrated as much when I allow them to have their last say or two or three without my corresponding diametrically opposed viewpoint. I hope it didn't offend.
Last edited by Darrell KSR; 08-14-2015 at 10:02 PM.
Seldom have I seen a wrong opinion here on this site. Only opinions I sometimes disagree with.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
Have not read any of the articles nor will I, reading here is enough
Could it gave been a mistake, most definite. Try proof reading something with that many pictures, stories whatever and there will be mistakes. I have proof read many ads, many catalogs, papers, articles and mistakes happen all the time regardless of how many times you look at something. Mick has done the same thing.
My best mistake was a double truck AD...both pages of the paper....we did in Hopkinsville for JC Penney when I was a senior merchandise mgr for them. Paper came out once a week and each of us was responsible for proofing our part of the AD, I proofed mine and initialed it
Paper came out that Wed evening and I immediately called the asst mgr in fear.
The men's dept was one of my areas and we marked down some men's double knit leisure suits for $14.99.
Well first thing Thursday morning in comes two retired gentlemen that wanted to see our
DOUBLE KNIt SHITS for $14.99. Then they died laughing. Thankfully they were the only ones who mentioned my Knit SHITs that were on sale
When you look at things you are familiar with or totally unfamiliar with, you think you see what you are supposed to be seeing even though it's not there
**** happens, even double knit ones
UK basketball's history with the NCAA leads many to believe we were and are targeted by that entity. By using the logic heralded here I now find that quite a reach.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
So if I believe in one "conspiracy", one backed up by a mound of actual events spanning years, I have to believe in them all even before there is an investigation?
There is a pattern of different standards for different schools by the ncaa. Has this high school done anything to form a pattern of discrimination to this point? They dismissed this kids probably valid claims of having been insulted during a road game, that seems to be it to this point. That's not even close to the pattern of behavior of the ncaa, but I have to accept it bc I accept the other?
The kid was most likely taunted, and felt the school should do something about it, the school chose to try to avoid the controversy and let it go. That's created an issue between the kid and the school, and maybe motivated someone to retaliate against him and maybe it was just a mistake, we don't know.
It's also as likely the retaliation wasn't bc he is gay as much as the rift created between the parties, but it's a very petty way to do it that creates more headaches for the administration with no real gain. That's why I'm betting if it was done it was by someone lower down who didn't think of how big the issue might become.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
The obvious contention is between the school system and the reporting agency pursuing the young man's case against them. There are accusations from both sides against each other. Such publicly and officialy shared contention has never been evident that I recall between the NCAA and UK. If it were I am sure there would have been official inquiries of the NCAA and it's practices.
Just to be sure, I am only playing devils advocate here. There is little difference in the logic being applied imho.
That is, if one does not start out with a preconceived opinion. Then logic doesn't apply at all.
It may be that the question should be, who in this situation assumes the role of the NCAA, and who of UK?
Last edited by kingcat; 08-16-2015 at 12:42 PM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
I think both sides are reasonable, I just am against suggesting that one side is not reasonable. I understand that some may see this as an innocent mistake, I just don't see it that way. If it happened to _____ ______, the senior starting center, I would see it as more of an innocent mistake, when it happens to a person who has had a problem with administration, I see it as less than an innocent mistake.
Darrell, as far as the articles go, is it the reporters lack of naming his 3 sources other than the accuser that makes you doubt his veracity? I am just wondering because having 3 sources and the 911 call being classified as a report of "terroristic threat", makes me lean towards believing the accuser over the school. Sure the article is slanted, but it seems that there was at least an effort to come up with sources and corroboration. The difference between this story and the John Calipari example you use, is that the Cal stuff never has any actual sources, 1 source, or something as concrete at a 911 call. Do you doubt the Parrish story about Cal from last week about him confronting the coach accusing him of cheating, because Parrish doesn't name the sources, but claims he had at least 5 sources back up this story, but he names none of them. So do you doubt the veracity of Parrish's story because it doesn't have named sources? I would have more doubt about the story if the reporter didn't claim to have sources and have the 911 call, but he does. Its no real skin off my back, and I just am wanting to better understand where you are coming from here as to the veracity of the story.
Its FOOTBALL time in the Bluegrass...and some basketball talk!!!!
I look at it from the perspective that only one side of the story is being reported.
The school's side of the story was report and linked in the original article LINK and (LINK). You just had to click on it to find it.
Here is their story for those who feel like you and do not believe that side is being reported.
I do not believe that either explanation is unreasonable. I do believe one is more likely. I typically am one to give an accused the benefit of the doubt, just my nature do to so. However in this case, based on the publicity that occurred prior to the publication of the yearbook, I find a simple omission difficult to believe. It's not unreasonable, just difficult given the circumstances"Today my office has been contacted by several media outlets asking for our response to an allegation made in an article on the Outsports.com website. According to the author, there was an organized and deliberate attempt by school staff to omit an individual student athlete's picture from the yearbook because the student athlete had publicly announced that he was gay.
"A district level administrator was assigned to conduct an inquiry into the allegation and report his findings directly to me. Yes, the individual picture for the student athlete was omitted from the school's basketball section through error. According to the photographer, the student athlete did have his picture taken along with other team members but he requested the digital file be sent to him for approval and editing and she did comply with his request. The file was returned by the student athlete to the photographer but the file that was sent by the photographer to the school did to not contain a photo for this specific student athlete. During the review process at the school which involved several different individuals the omission was not found.
"As to the assertion there was a deliberate attempt to harass the student athlete by omitting his photograph from the yearbook, that claim is totally false and without merit. The student appears in the yearbook in fifteen separate photos. The photos are both group and individual and one is a Senior Superlative for School Spirit. There are also several photos of the student athlete taken during basketball games. We do acknowledge that none of these images may be as meaningful to the student athlete as his individual basketball picture and we apologize to him and his family for the error.
"During this research we discovered that a very limited number of omissions occurred in other schools in our district with the 2014-2015 yearbook. To resolve these unintentional errors, I have directed that any pages where omissions occurred be reprinted as inserts. Any individual who purchased a yearbook and wishes a copy of the insert will be able to obtain one from our office. Expect additional information about that in the near future.
"We teach our students that when you make a mistake that you acknowledge your error, express regret and if possible, correct your actions. We can't expect our children to learn these lessons if we don't model them."
Last edited by Doc; 08-17-2015 at 01:25 PM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
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