100+ Islamic Clerics sign letter condemning ISIS on fundamental Islamic grounds

[PedroDaGr8]

This is on the heels of a number of prominent imams in the UK issuing a fatwa against ISIS, serving ISIS or assisting ISIS in any way. Which if you read that article explains that any sort of support of the so called ISIS is haram, which is better translated as a severe and great sin and as such much not only be not done but must be actively fought against.

On to the document that I mention in the title: Here This document is a very interesting read, it takes some time but is well worth it. It basically lays out how the so called ISIS is using a corrupted version of Islam and refutes their ideology point by point. It explains that their entire basis for existence is fundamentally wrong and un-islamic, let alone their policies and behaviors. It uses theological arguments to refute everything in a logical manner.

They also ask that people not call them the Islamic Caliphate or the Islamic State because they are neither instead referring to them as the so-called or self-styled ISIS. They address this in the letter:

In your speech you quoted the Companion Abu Bakr Al-Siddiq : ‘I have been given authority over you, and I am not the best of you.’ This begs the question: who gave you authority over the ummah? Was it your group? If this is the case, then a group of no more than several thousand has appointed itself the ruler of over a billion and a half Muslims. This attitude is based upon a corrupt circular logic that says: ‘Only we are Muslims, and we decide who the caliph is, we have chosen one and so whoever does not accept our caliph is not a Muslim.’ In this case, a caliph is nothing more than the leader of a certain group that declares more than 99% of Muslims non-Muslim. On the other hand, if you recognize the billion and a half people who consider themselves Muslims, how can you not consult (shura) them regarding your so-called caliphate? Thus, you face one of two conclusions: either you concur that they are Muslims and they did not appoint you caliph over them—in which case you are not the caliph—or, the other conclusion is that you do not accept them as Muslims, in which case Muslims are a small group not in need of a caliph, so why use the word ‘caliph’ at all?

[dan_bgblue]

I have not read more than the first page, but will when I have time. The list of 24 mentions many things that are forbidden and those precepts are being violated every day by people that proclaim Islam as their religion, and are not considered to be radical. Islamic leaders of countries, religious leaders, and tribal leaders all fall into the category of doing things that are forbidden on a daily basis.

[CitizenBBN]

I'm very pleased that Islamic leaders are taking a strong stand against this kind of radicalism, specifically fascism.

Islam is a very fractured religion in many ways. Much like Christianity before Constantine and the Catholic church. So while I'm thrilled with their stand we'll have to see if this chorus grows and we see hegemony against ISIS and radicalism in general. If we do we may some day thank the insane extremism of ISIS for helping limit the radical islamist movement. That would be one irony I'd love to see.

[PedroDaGr8]

I'm very pleased that Islamic leaders are taking a strong stand against this kind of radicalism, specifically fascism.

Islam is a very fractured religion in many ways. Much like Christianity before Constantine and the Catholic church. So while I'm thrilled with their stand we'll have to see if this chorus grows and we see hegemony against ISIS and radicalism in general. If we do we may some day thank the insane extremism of ISIS for helping limit the radical islamist movement. That would be one irony I'd love to see.

I think you are entirely correct. While many moderates used to not agree with the radicalism, they used to turn a blind eye to it as an acceptable or exploitable evil. Much as how the USA has supported evil dictators in the battle against communism, Islamists were often a useful pawn for some governments. For example, the Pakistani intelligence service used to use islamists in its battle with India. They are now paying the price.

A quote from the UAE ambassador is very telling :

"It's important for us -- moderate Arabs, moderate Muslims -- to step up and say this is a threat against us. This is more of a threat against us than it is against you. This is not just a threat to our countries. This is a threat to our way of life,"


I think a realization is occurring by the governments and scholars that this is a cancer that might end up consuming them as well. I think you might be right, it takes this barbarism to clearly illustrate the flaws in Wahaabism. Hopefully, in time, it will become another awful footnote in human history.


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[CitizenBBN]

Great post Pedro.

Like so many things in this Islamist movement, it mirrors what we saw with the last major fascist movement, in Europe in the 1930s. More than one group in Germany and Italy and Spain found the fascists to be useful in the short run and turned a blind eye to their excesses, only to in the end be consumed by the fascists. German and Italian industrialists in particular.

i agree with the UAE ambassador, this movement is far more dangerous to them than us. We may be attacked, maybe even thousands killed, but no Islamist flag will fly over our capital. Such a war is utterly unwinnable against us in the most extreme future world, but it is very possible for them to overthrow UAE nations, Pakistan, etc.

The Pakistani situation is a mistake on them and us. with the soviet withdrawal we got skittish about supporting the Paki military and esp. their efforts at nuclear proliferation. As we pulled back they were forced to turn to others for support, including radical elements even within the nuclear program. I don't know that they wouldn't have anyway, and they signed the deal with the devil, but it would have been nice to have given them other options, even partial options. But our stance on proliferation blocked our ability to look the other way too much, and India's ties to us also made it tough.

But in the end Pakistan was getting the bomb no matter what we did, all we did was cost ourselves influence over them.

But now as you say they have a real problem, as does the House of Saud. It's showing up in Oman and the UAE as well, and Iran is staring straight down the barrel of another war with Iraq if they take control there. Obviously Africa is deeply at risk in multiple nations.

That dance on the edge of the razor the House of Saud has done for decades is becoming less tenable.

[Doc]

I think you are entirely correct. While many moderates used to not agree with the radicalism, they used to turn a blind eye to it as an acceptable or exploitable evil. Much as how the USA has supported evil dictators in the battle against communism, Islamists were often a useful pawn for some governments. For example, the Pakistani intelligence service used to use islamists in its battle with India. They are now paying the price.

A quote from the UAE ambassador is very telling :

"It's important for us -- moderate Arabs, moderate Muslims -- to step up and say this is a threat against us. This is more of a threat against us than it is against you. This is not just a threat to our countries. This is a threat to our way of life,"


I think a realization is occurring by the governments and scholars that this is a cancer that might end up consuming them as well. I think you might be right, it takes this barbarism to clearly illustrate the flaws in Wahaabism. Hopefully, in time, it will become another awful footnote in human history.


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Yeah, they weren't overly concerned when those rag wearing lunitics were stealing 747s and screaming "Allah Akbar" as they flew them into the sides of sky scrapers in NYC killing thousands of Christians but when its a threat to them then they will step up to the plate. (I'm referring to radicals who do this type of stuff, not necessarily ISIS or ISIL)

Glad they did it but a dollar short and a day late IMO.

[jazyd]

Doc has a way of expressing my views. And with what happened in Ok today, they better be more worried

[suncat05]

I agree with Doc as well. It is now a problem for them because they see THEIR WAY OF LIFE becoming endangered. They could give two squats about us or our way of life here. Unfortunately, the problem is here, now, and it's all too real. Stand by, because those events that we've witnessed in Ft. Hood, Boston, and Oklahoma City(Moore) are going to become the norm.
So prepare yourselves. Arm yourselves and be prepared to defend yourselves and your families because the police can't be and aren't everywhere. It is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to protect yourself and your family.

[kingcat]

If it suits their interests we'll get no such cooperation, that's for certain. There is an inherent jealosy between Abrahams sons (Isaac of the House of Israel & half brother Ishmael, an Arab) which will never be settled until God does so Himself imo.

Until we side with the Muslim over the Jew, they with a deeper understanding (or misunderstanding rather) of Gods promise will hate us