Worse President

[jazyd]

You said it perfectly and one fo the problems is those grass roots people can't see the forest for the trees the way the its been hijacked from them, its almost like a cult where what the leader says goes. Its really amazing to talk to them, many are friends and they just can't see what they have been lead to. The movement was good, many that were sent to congress were good, but as so often happens, the greed by those at the top takes over. And yes Hannity and Reid both have used it to their advantage, Hannity is raking in huge dollars because of it. I read his contract with Fox is $20 million a year.

As for the tea party, I'm so mad I could spit. It started out as a grass roots movement by real people who were sick and tired of the bullshit politics where every problem was simply "solved" by throwing more money at it. Where problems were "solved" by making back room deals to get people re-elected and bring money to their district at the expense of the nation. The original Tea Partier's were just sick and tired of that and wanted something different. Then in stepped the politicians like Sarah Palin. Sean Hannity and others on the right who felt they could infiltrate it to THEIR advantage and politicians like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid on the left who felt they could discredit it to THEIR advantage. The entire purpose of it was that it wasn't an organization but rather an unorganized movement of people who were just sick of the same ol same ol. It was people who wanted real change and then the folks who the old establishment got the dirty grubby hands on it because it suited their purpose. So while folks like MT and Jazy might by disgusted by the Tea Party it isn't the Tea Party that they should be angry with. Its the posers who ripped it off.

[MTcatfan]

mtcatfan -

I'm curious what Paul and Rubio have done to be given the "loonies" label.

FWIW I agree there are some definite loonies in the broad "tea party" umbrella, but as Keith said the "Tea Party" is really a populist political movement and as such beyond a general level of fiscal conservatism their philosophies are all over the map. Some are socially conservative, but most are pretty Libertarian, including Rand Paul.

It's true that as a bit of an isolationist and Libertarian he has some less mainstream views on those issues, but not sure that's nearly enough to raise him to "looney". Rubio I really don't get at all, he's not even out of step on those issues.

I consider myself a libertarian and while no candidate is ideal, I could live with Paul b/c of his basic philosophy and desire to dismantle the post Great Society victim society as much as possible, knowing we'd also scale back on the use of force abroad and that would be a mixed bag for us.

Is it Libertarianism itself that is looney or just something Paul et al specifically embraces within it that is the issue? I agree completely there are elements within the Tea Party and Libertarians who are everywhere from on the fringe to card carrying nut jobs, but I don't see that in some of the major national guys you listed.

What you want to discuss without accusations of bias and prejudice...unheard of...though I will say that I don't care if I am told I am being biased, because you are damn right I am being biased, just as EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS BOARD IS BIASED. Bias is exactly how we form our political views, we have biases and we used those biases to form our political views. To me bias is way, way, way, different than prejudice. I am not prejudiced, I like all people, even far right conservatives...


Libertarianism isn't loony at all, I just am not sure that there is a true libertarian out there, it seems to me that a lot of the Tea Party/Libertarians, profess to be for small government, but really just want to "shift" government to fit their needs. They want to remove the government from say the doctors office, but then want to insert it into everyone's bedrooms. So I guess I don't particularly agree with such tactics. Plus Libertarianism isn't any loonier than I am because I am fairly Libertarian myself, but I am also fairly liberal also, but have some conservative views to, so to me the Tea Party just seems to extreme on a national scale, and is way, way scary for me personally on a local scale.

Now that said I will need a little more time to get to know certain candidates, with say Rand Paul I don't like his views on some social issues, and I think he is to much of an isolationist, while I am not a fan of the bury the head in the sand and pretend things don't exist way of foreign policy that Obama has adopted, I also don't agree with ignore the fact that the US exists in a global society and sometimes that means the US, as a superpower is going to have to get their hands dirty. As far as Rubio goes, he is probably the one I am least familiar with, but I will say that on a quick view I am probably against some of his social views, but can't comment much past that.

[KeithKSR]

Rand Paul drives the traditional GOP people nuts with his stance on some issues, like U.S. military involvement in places where we aren't wanted.

[Doc]

Wonder how this guy would vote



Picture taken today


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[suncat05]

Gotta like them 'good 'ol boys' in Martin County, FL. Of course, that could be anywhere in most of Florida's 67 counties. And you'd still see that in parts of those left-wing, limp wristed liberal bastions like Miami-Dade, Broward, & Palm Beach counties too.

[Doc]

Can I change my vote?

[MickintheHam]

Can I change my vote?

Absolutely! Join the tens of millions of Americans who are now recognizing an empty suit.

[jazyd]

But will they remember or forget and vote for the 'pantsuit' which is just as empty

Absolutely! Join the tens of millions of Americans who are now recognizing an empty suit.

[Doc]

But will they remember or forget and vote for the 'pantsuit' which is just as empty

Crankles?