NBA Punishment on Sterling

[ukpumacat]

I don't what the California laws are regarding taping a person without consent. Sterling is free to sue the woman, if it is illegal in California, for all she has--or for what he has already given her.

It is illegal in California.

[CitizenBBN]

It is illegal in California.

So the remedy here is for her to be prosecuted criminally as well as sued civilly for her actions.

[UKHistory]

Criminal prosecution could get more satifaction than any civil suit for Sterling. A jury should convict--but it is California. The woman has nothing and is suing him for close to 2 million.

So the remedy here is for her to be prosecuted criminally as well as sued civilly for her actions.

[Doc]

My opinion is and always has been that there are racist folk. There always will be racist folk. I rather know who the racist folk were so I'm glad that this comes out. I'd prefer that if a business didn't want to serve blacks or gays or women etc.. that they put out a sign saying they did so I could take my business elsewhere. I believe in the world today that if that happened those businesses would soon feel the economic pinch. IMO I would have loved to see Silver declare every single player and employee of the Clipper a free agent at the end of the year if they wanted to be. A free agent w/o compensation to the club, if the player or employee wants to stay they can but if not they are free to go. IMO that hurt where it should. Chris Paul or Blake Griffin don't want to play for the racist pig, great. Go play for somebody else and Sterling gets nothing in return. Kills the value of the team so HE losses. Instead Sterling pays fine of 2.5 million (which is chicken feed for a billionaire), forced to sell the team for a huge profit for what he paid (so he makes millions) OR sells/gives to his wife/daughter (and still runs it --wink wink) OR spends years in litigation because he is an old crotchy SOB lawyer and thats what he likes doing.

[MTcatfan]

Absolutely not, and if they were violated he may have recourse.

I'll put my views in law enforcement terms, in large part bc it is the best example of this issue IMO. It's the Exclusionary Rule. Officer finds evidence of a crime but is ruled to have done so illegally, in the courts that evidence is then excluded, potentially letting the crime go unpunished.

In my ideal world the evidence is in, b/c the two issues are separable. The fact that the warrant wasnt' spelled right doesn't let someone get away with a crime. the evidence is used, the crime is prosecuted. the second act, the violation of his rights, is separately actionable against the city/state/whoever and he is due some kind of damages for it, but the "damages" he gets is monetary and not that he gets to avoid prosecution for the robbery or murder or whatever.

Same here. He may have some kind of action against the person for the damage done, but you can't put the genie back in the bottle so it's impractical to say he gets a pass for being a flaming racist b/c we found out he was due to this covert and maybe illegal act.

It's not ideal, nothing is in this area of law, but the real economic damages done to the NBA and the owners and all those who earn a living off the Clippers cannot be washed away by saying he was recorded illegally, thus the fact that it was done can't have bearing on their actions to protect their interests.

I will also add that I don't know if he was wronged or not in that I don't know Cali law on private taping of conversations. If it was a government entity he has a whale of a case, but it's a matter of state law what crime was committed if any in this case.

I don't like that his privacy was violated, but the fact that it was doesn't IMO restrain his partners in any way, it should come back on the person who violated his rights and she ay owe more money than she'll ever be able to pay.

Perfect take on the whole record conversation thing...that is my opinion stated better than I stated.


Also I give Doc a +1 on his comment!

[blueboss]

Criminal prosecution could get more satifaction than any civil suit for Sterling. A jury should convict--but it is California. The woman has nothing and is suing him for close to 2 million.

The wife is sueing the girlfriend for a couple million, Ole Don gave her three or four cars, a boat, and at least one dwelling. The wife says Ole don used their money for the purchases and she wants her half back.

[blueboss]

My opinion is and always has been that there are racist folk. There always will be racist folk. I rather know who the racist folk were so I'm glad that this comes out. I'd prefer that if a business didn't want to serve blacks or gays or women etc.. that they put out a sign saying they did so I could take my business elsewhere. I believe in the world today that if that happened those businesses would soon feel the economic pinch. IMO I would have loved to see Silver declare every single player and employee of the Clipper a free agent at the end of the year if they wanted to be. A free agent w/o compensation to the club, if the player or employee wants to stay they can but if not they are free to go. IMO that hurt where it should. Chris Paul or Blake Griffin don't want to play for the racist pig, great. Go play for somebody else and Sterling gets nothing in return. Kills the value of the team so HE losses. Instead Sterling pays fine of 2.5 million (which is chicken feed for a billionaire), forced to sell the team for a huge profit for what he paid (so he makes millions) OR sells/gives to his wife/daughter (and still runs it --wink wink) OR spends years in litigation because he is an old crotchy SOB lawyer and thats what he likes doing.

I think I read where he paid 12.5 million for the team back in the 80's and it's worth close to a billion. If he sold it for a billion and then paid the roughly 390 million in capital gains taxes he still clears over 550 million... not a bad day, but of course that has to suck knowing you just had to pay close to 400 million in taxes.

the 2.5 million fine is a joke, however they said the fine money would be donated to some civil rights groups to help the fight against racism

[Doc]

the 2.5 million fine is a joke, however they said the fine money would be donated to some civil rights groups to help the fight against racism

yep but its the maximum fine they can levy. That's why IMO its better to gut the value of the team by liquidating its assets (the players) thru free agency. Where is the value of any team? Its the players and the brand. Well if the league voids the contracts it gives the players what they want (I can't see any player wanting to play for Sterling) and devalues the team far greater than $2.5 million.

[TonyRay]

Does this NBA owner get in trouble over this?

Attachment 3447

[BudCat_upthecreek]

Mercy.

- Are we sure Donald Sterling has dementia? Link? I know people in the Clippers organization and have never heard this before. What I have heard for over a decade is that Sterling is a racist pig. No dementia needed. Pretty sure Rush Limbaugh started this rumor but I have not seen or heard this confirmed anywhere. Just people finding a reason to defend him. No idea why someone would want to. The guy is a pig. Everyone knows it. People have wanted him out for years, and this just finally gave them proof and public backlash enough to do it.

- Someone asked how could Sterling date a minority and be a racist. The same way slave owners screwed african-american women all the time. Incredibly racist slave owners. Openly racist ones. Simple answer: their lust overpowers their hatred.

- Chris Paul never said he wanted a black coach. Even if he did, its not the same. Not even close. But he never did. That was a bogus rumor started by the NY Daily News. No quotes. No links. Just "sources told us". Whatever. I know for a fact Chris Paul wanted Mike Malone as the Clippers coach. And he's white.

Again couldn't agree more.Great Summation!!!! Woman SCORNED, she knew he was cutting her off, also knew exactly what button to push & pushed it while taping conversation. Got what she wanted & he got what he deserved, no place in NBA for Sterling....dementia, LOL.

IMO Chris Paul has been a Gentlemen & Team Leader during this B/S.

Bad deal the way it went down(due to Privacy thing) but end result getting him out of NBA right thing. Best thing for game.

[jazyd]

Bud, he should have been gone before but the league turned their greedy heads. Now the have to take action, must protect the imagine

Now, here is a problem. Certain media are already targeting the owner of the Magic. Why? Nbecause he doesn't believe in gay marriage which is his right and based on his are private beliefs beliefs. Now any conservative who has dared express their belief as an owner will be targeted by the liberal media. Will the league stand up to the media? As suncat said, are private conversations or beliefs no longer sacred? Will someone try to catch black players saying something in private thst will get them banned or suspended?

The league has shown what they are as has a Rivers and many others, money is what really matters until something like this blows up in their holier than thou face

QUOTE=BudCat_upthecreek;187896]Again couldn't agree more.Great Summation!!!! Woman SCORNED, she knew he was cutting her off, also knew exactly what button to push & pushed it while taping conversation. Got what she wanted & he got what he deserved, no place in NBA for Sterling....dementia, LOL.

IMO Chris Paul has been a Gentlemen & Team Leader during this B/S.

Bad deal the way it went down(due to Privacy thing) but end result getting him out of NBA right thing. Best thing for game.[/QUOTE]

[MTcatfan]

Who is targeting the Magic owner? I see a couple of articles from people speculating, and wondering about "pandoras box" but in a gay marriage magic owner google search, I did not see one article actually calling for the NBA to do anything about him.

That said I would think that no one would be kicked out for their religious/political views as long as they stay respecful. I mean really I am sure that the Magic owner isn't the only owner opposed to gay marriage and that is their right. The only time there would probably be an issue would be if say he is taped calling gays the "f" word or the "q" word, and saying "hateful" things about gays. Being opposed to gay marriage is not in of itself "hateful", but it can go over the top if not careful.

Will some people protest him, will some people scream and yell, like some do for Michael Jordan, but Michael Jordan is not being run out of the league due to all of Nike's sweat shops, so I don't think opposing gay marriage is going to get you run out of the NBA.

Now that doesn't mean that the NBA itself may tell him to shut up if he gets to vocal since the NBA has gay fans, but unless he got really stupid I can't imagine there would ever be the 3/4ths of the owner vote to kick an owner out over opposition to gay marriage, whereas in the Sterling thing the vote is going to be 100% imho.

[TonyRay]

Who is targeting the Magic owner? I see a couple of articles from people speculating, and wondering about "pandoras box" but in a gay marriage magic owner google search, I did not see one article actually calling for the NBA to do anything about him.

That said I would think that no one would be kicked out for their religious/political views as long as they stay respecful. I mean really I am sure that the Magic owner isn't the only owner opposed to gay marriage and that is their right. The only time there would probably be an issue would be if say he is taped calling gays the "f" word or the "q" word, and saying "hateful" things about gays. Being opposed to gay marriage is not in of itself "hateful", but it can go over the top if not careful.

Will some people protest him, will some people scream and yell, like some do for Michael Jordan, but Michael Jordan is not being run out of the league due to all of Nike's sweat shops, so I don't think opposing gay marriage is going to get you run out of the NBA.

Now that doesn't mean that the NBA itself may tell him to shut up if he gets to vocal since the NBA has gay fans, but unless he got really stupid I can't imagine there would ever be the 3/4ths of the owner vote to kick an owner out over opposition to gay marriage, whereas in the Sterling thing the vote is going to be 100% imho.

, Mozilla CEO Brendan Eich resigned under pressure after gay rights activists demanded that he step down or recant his support of traditional marriage laws. Eich donated $1,000 to support Proposition 8, the California ballot initiative that amended the state's constitution to define marriage as between one man and one woman. "I don't want to talk about my personal beliefs because I kept them out of Mozilla all these 15 years we've been going,” Eich told The Guardian. “I don't believe they're relevant.” That wasn't an option. "CEO Brendan Eich should make an unequivocal statement of support for marriage equality," a Credoaction petition signed by almost 75,000 people said, per The Inquirer. "If he cannot, he should resign. And if he will not, the board should fire him immediately." When asked if his beliefs about marriage should constitute a firing offense the way racism or sexism does, Eich argued that these religious beliefs — and beliefs popular as of 2008 — should not be used as a basis for dismissal. "I don't believe that's true, on the basis of what's permissible to support or vote on in 2008," he told CNET. "It's still permissible. Beliefs that are protected, that include political and religious speech, are generally not something that can be held against even a CEO..."

[MTcatfan]

, Mozilla CEO Brendan Eich resigned under pressure after gay rights activists demanded that he step down or recant his support of traditional marriage laws. Eich donated $1,000 to support Proposition 8, the California ballot initiative that amended the state's constitution to define marriage as between one man and one woman. "I don't want to talk about my personal beliefs because I kept them out of Mozilla all these 15 years we've been going,” Eich told The Guardian. “I don't believe they're relevant.” That wasn't an option. "CEO Brendan Eich should make an unequivocal statement of support for marriage equality," a Credoaction petition signed by almost 75,000 people said, per The Inquirer. "If he cannot, he should resign. And if he will not, the board should fire him immediately." When asked if his beliefs about marriage should constitute a firing offense the way racism or sexism does, Eich argued that these religious beliefs — and beliefs popular as of 2008 — should not be used as a basis for dismissal. "I don't believe that's true, on the basis of what's permissible to support or vote on in 2008," he told CNET. "It's still permissible. Beliefs that are protected, that include political and religious speech, are generally not something that can be held against even a CEO..."

That is a different situation, jazy brought up the Magic owner, not Eich. Eich is an appointed head of a for-profit corporation, not the owner of a closely held corporation that is part of an organized sports league, of which the corporation is a voting member. So to me that is a key difference, as I said there is not way there would ever be a 3/4ths majority to kick out an owner for supporting something he is allowed to support, gay marriage is not anything close to racism in terms of historical outrage. Plus to be blunt the owners had no choice on Sterling as what 95% of their players are black and were outraged over Sterling, and heck even if the Magic owner is taped calling gays the "f" word and the "q" word, there are only a handful of gay players so the owners would not be compelled to vote out an anti-gay owner.

While I don't agree Eich should have been targeted by activist groups, even though I agree with gay marriage, that is the peril of being the CEO of a for-profit, if the Board decides that you are going to hurt the bottomline more than help it you are out as the CEO, and while Eich intially had the support of the Board of Mozilla, something tells me there were enough CUSTOMERS(the only ones that mattered to Mozilla) wanting him gone, that when he "resigned" he had lost the Board and would have been fired if he didn't resign. I just don't believe there would ever be enough outrage with the NBA's customers to lead to a team owners ousters over gay marriage, which leads into what I say next.


This is the fallacy of the "slippery slope" argument in regards to Sterling, there is no issue in the country that would unite the players, fans and owners in a way like a racist owner would. So there is no slippery slope, as you would never see the 3 entities that came together in the Sterling case ever come together for any other issue. Heck there are probably tons of anti-gay marriage players(heck Blake Griffin is a young earther for petes sake), there are definitely tons of NBA fans that are anti-gay marriage, and I would bet at least 50% of NBA owners are anti-gay marriage. The right likes to be hysterical when stuff like Sterling or Cliven Bundy happen, but in reality the country is moderate overall and the slippery slope just never really happens.


I mean come on, if the slippery slope actually existed we would not have an NFL team named for 1 of 2 phrases that would make me punch you in the face if you called me it, but you can't even get 10% of the outrage mustered that was mustered in the Sterling case, mustered to eliminate that blatently racist phrase from the team name. Look folks "redskin" is the "n" word for Native Americans, and if you want to be beaten nearly to death or to death, please walk into any type of Indian Reservation establishment and holler "redskin" and see what Natives feel about that name. Despite what some want you to believe "redskin" is, was and always will be a completely 100% racist word, and while I think there are way more important issues for Natives today, it will be a happy day for me when and if that name is removed from the NFL.

btw, the other racist name that will get you punched by me is the phrase "prairie n word"...

[jazyd]

MT, I thought you wre a strong Catholic as in the past we have had several discussions about the faith and I also thought, wrongly I guess, you were a firm believer in the Bible and teaches of the faith. Guessed wrong since you are a believer in gay marriage. Guess you only think the part you want to believe is relevant and everything else in that little book and the teachings of the Catholic faith is very flawed in your opinion.

[MTcatfan]

MT, I thought you wre a strong Catholic as in the past we have had several discussions about the faith and I also thought, wrongly I guess, you were a firm believer in the Bible and teaches of the faith. Guessed wrong since you are a believer in gay marriage. Guess you only think the part you want to believe is relevant and everything else in that little book and the teachings of the Catholic faith is very flawed in your opinion.

I am Catholic and I follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, and I am also a Catholic raised person who went to Catholic school 10 out of 12 years of school. That makes me a huge defender of the Catholic Church when I feel that it is being wronged, that does not make me a person who believes in everything that the Catholic Church believes in. While I believe in the Bible I put the Gospels in the top position since it is Christ that makes us CHRISTians, and Jesus never said anything about gay marriage, and I am of the belief a lot of what he said would at least tell the faithful it is not their place to judge.

I also think that gay marriage is a non-religious issue, as it is ONLY religion that needs to define marriage between a man and woman, and almost all defenses of not allowing it are religious. I have many reasons as to why I support gay marriage none of which I need to justify with you, and one of them is I am a believer in the separation of church and state, and since there is really no non-religious reason to not allow it, I support gay marriage. There is no need to not allow a portion of our country that has a right to exist, to not be able to file taxes together, inherit property from each other without penalty, make monetary and health decisions for their partner, and adopt children together. Do church's need to support it, nope, do they need to perform gay marriage services, nope, but the GOVERNMENT should allow it to happen in a civil manner.




Lastly, how DARE you question my faith, that is not your place, that is God's place, and I am comfortable with my faith and my belief. Also this is probably not the place to debate gay marriage, I was just addressing Tony's "slippery slope" analogy more than I was desiring to debate gay marriage as an issue. This was just meant to be a discussion of whether or not an owner would get a team taken away by opposing gay marriage. Also I ask again who is wanting the team to be removed from the Magic owner? My search of gay marriage Magic owner on Google was just basically "slippery slope" discussions or wondering if this could happen.

[TonyRay]

One, the mozilla CEO was targeted for giving a gift of $1000 to support the proposition at the same time Obama was against gay marriage. I don't like the fact that groups can put pressure on ones that someone targets that by all accounts had not discriminated against anyone in his business practices. They just went down a list of donors and then made him a target.
Second, I don't like how Sterlings personal conversation at his home was leaked out or the manner in which this woman trapped him into saying more and more. The guy has terrible views but at the same time he was wronged. The NBA made this decision and if I view his past business practices it is hard for me to feel sorry for him.
Third, as for my belief as a Catholic it is hard for me not to use my faith definition of marriage when the gay marriage subject comes up. I view my marriage as a holy ceremony that God gave us as the uniting of a man and a woman and that's why I married in the church and not in the courthouse. It's hard for me to separate that definition what some want to redefine it as. I am not judging gays and don't deny that there should be legal rights to them but I just don't see it as a marriage but rather a civil union.

[ukpumacat]

MT, I thought you wre a strong Catholic as in the past we have had several discussions about the faith and I also thought, wrongly I guess, you were a firm believer in the Bible and teaches of the faith. Guessed wrong since you are a believer in gay marriage. Guess you only think the part you want to believe is relevant and everything else in that little book and the teachings of the Catholic faith is very flawed in your opinion.

Oh. My. Word.

[MTcatfan]

Oh. My. Word.

Yeah...