So has this ever been close to happening?
So has this ever been close to happening?
Go Cats!
now that I have no idea. I don't follow the machinations of the leagues very closely.Originally Posted by Padukacat
I'm confident though that over the years individual owners on teams and maybe even a majority owner have been 'encouraged' to sell out and move on. Most of these things are never so public. People "resign" or sell out to "pursue other interests" and "spend time with family" and it slips their mind to mention how much they were encouraged to do so by others. lol.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
Will players that make offensive comments be treated similarly?
Sterling has been a racist for awhile..lot a of good points in this thread from both sides..it's 2014 so this type of racism should not be tolerated.. I see where BA and Darryl are coming from as well..slippery slope all the way around IMO
I'll just vehemently agree to disagree. I just can't express enough the difference between what Sterling said and stating you want your boss to be of your same race. I will also say that there is probably a ton of minorities that have experienced racism that have wished something similar with a boss, teacher, manager etc. I know I have been in similar situations with teachers before, especially when the couple of times I have been subjected to racism by someone that has had power over me.
Question...mick mentioned Sterling has dementia. If any have been around someone who has dementia or early Alzheimer's you know they say and do things that make no sense
Now I realize he has had problems with his rentals and Baylor accused him of things after being fire and suing based on being fired because of age.
Could he have been set up? If he truly felt that way about blacks why would he be dating one...while still married.....if he knew what he was doing. Could he have been, in his mind, back 20 or 30 years in his past? Because people do that with this disease as I watched and listened to my mom do that for several years.
Not sure thst was his problem but it seems odd to me he would date someone of a race he hates.
And Paul is just as bad. And as someone mentioned to me today did Sprewell get banned for life when he tried to choke his white coach?
jazy -- I think dementia here may be a very real possibility, and as you said if you've been around it you've seen the sweetest, nicest people cuss like sailors, become violent etc. My grand aunt had it and she was the most kind lady around, she never said a harsh word. She started cussing like you can't believe, became hateful and cruel, then would go to being that same lady. She also did the time thing where she thought it was the 50s or whatever. The whole brain starts short circuiting.
I have no idea if he's ill or just is who he is, but if he's ill his comments shouldn't be held against him, they can't control them and more important a lot of research shows this isn't them being 'true' in some way, it's the brain short circuiting in ways they can't control.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
Local psychologist here suggested he showed some signs of dementia. That doesn't forgive his years as a slum lord and other past racist behaviors.
Dealing with Full Blown Alzheimer's now, been thru a number of yrs of dementia before. It is horrible & unpredictable disease, but comment "that all he had ask was for her to not put the pictures up, did not care what she did, but have ask you to not put up pictures & advertise on social media" plus the fact she just happened to record that conversation leads me to believe she already knew what his reaction would be. Sorry but doesn't fit with dementia type conversation, seems to me she knew exactly what his reaction was going to be from previous request.
Plus past lawsuit dealing with tenants, past racists behavior. Sterling was probably set up, believe she knew exactly what button to push. But she got him so now he'll be forced to deal with it. Someone got exactly the result they wanted IMO.
Mercy.
- Are we sure Donald Sterling has dementia? Link? I know people in the Clippers organization and have never heard this before. What I have heard for over a decade is that Sterling is a racist pig. No dementia needed. Pretty sure Rush Limbaugh started this rumor but I have not seen or heard this confirmed anywhere. Just people finding a reason to defend him. No idea why someone would want to. The guy is a pig. Everyone knows it. People have wanted him out for years, and this just finally gave them proof and public backlash enough to do it.
- Someone asked how could Sterling date a minority and be a racist. The same way slave owners screwed african-american women all the time. Incredibly racist slave owners. Openly racist ones. Simple answer: their lust overpowers their hatred.
- Chris Paul never said he wanted a black coach. Even if he did, its not the same. Not even close. But he never did. That was a bogus rumor started by the NY Daily News. No quotes. No links. Just "sources told us". Whatever. I know for a fact Chris Paul wanted Mike Malone as the Clippers coach. And he's white.
~Puma~
Fair enough. Like I said, Sterling is an idiot.
Darryl
I was creeping on my 21-year old son's twitter account, and saw him tweeting to a friend.
"I'm glad we have idiots like Sterling because his actions further stigmatize racism. He's paving his own road out of relevancy."
via mobile app
Just talking out loud on my part, I have no idea what his deal is but would certainly not be surprised if he was just a racist pig.
I do find it a little odd to have those dating choices but he seems to see himself as some kind of benevolent guy who is helping out the "black folk", doing good works by employing them and such, very much the old school view that blacks are children and slavery is what's best for them b/c they can't get along on their own.
My guess is 90% racist pig, 10% mind snapped, maybe 95/5.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
In this case dementia might be showing the true person as opposed to the fake persona he might try to convey in public.
Honestly the things he said to his girlfriend are not nearly as bad as what he said during that court case. I kind of scratch my head why these comments are so much worse than what he said during that old lawsuit. And the are all bad--don't get me wrong.
As far as getting forced out by partners in a private venture. In the public you can get fired pretty quick. In the public sector your partners can push you out. Right or wrong if a person took a stand that negatively hurt the profits of a business, that person is going to get bought out. Compensated equitably put still pushed out.
FYI...After puma informed me that the Chris Paul wanting a black coach thing was BS, I did a little research. I put Chris Paul black coach in google, and in the first TEN pages of results there was not ONE article from a legitimate news source, that mentioned that Chris Paul ever said such a thing. Now the results are about half and half this current Sterling issue and the Chris Paul black coach things, but for the black coach thing the results are all basically blogs I have never heard on quoting "multiple NBA sources", or message boards calling Chris Paul racist saying he wanted a black coach when he never actually said such a thing.
Last edited by MTcatfan; 04-30-2014 at 09:35 AM.
Its FOOTBALL time in the Bluegrass...and some basketball talk!!!!
I agree that the guy needs to go. Zero doubt about that point, or why.
Here is my problem with this situation: this was a private conversation between two adults, which may have been illegally recorded. Again, this allegedly was a "private conversation", not held out in a public venue. Hence, his reasonable expectation to privacy may have been violated.
So violating his rights in this manner is okay with some of you, as long as the results are what you want?
Again, I am not taking up for this guy, and I agree he needs to go. Needed to go a long time ago. But the manner in which this all came about absolutely scares the living crap out of me. I question the idea that violating this guy's reasonable expectation to privacy is right, what the motive for doing so is, and the people and manner in which it was done.
As far as I am concerned, EVERYONE involved in this situation is reprehensible.
MOLON LABE!
Some things don't add up
NAACP was giving this guy an award, how does that happen to an avowed racist
His girlfriend says she recorded everything because he couldn't remember what he says or does
Baylor sues for his job claiming age discrimination and then brings out racist comments. How could Baylor work in that enviroment if the guy was that openly racist
How could Rivers take the job if Sterling was known to be such a racist
If he was so open about it, why didnt the league...which is almost all black players....do something earlier
I have a hard time seeing a guy who doesn't want black people in his arena with his girlfriend when he is sitting with her and it is obvious what she is. Puma says it's like the slave owner screwing his slave, sorry not the same because that owner did it privately and not out in the open.
It he was a racist, and he probably is to an extent, sounds like everyone turned their heads because so many were making millions but now they have to protect their imagine.
Slave owners screwed slaves in the open all of the time. It was a common practice. Also, his girlfriend does not look black. WHy that matters to him I have no idea. Chuck said it best, his view of black people was just off.
Why everyone put up with it and worked in the environment anyways is a great question. I think the answer is partly what you just said…everyone was making money. Bigger than that, I think the reason was because everyone just ignored him. He was not a very hands on owner. People (especially Doc) thought you could win in spite of him and they were right. Its not just the racist thing. He was a known terrible owner. Why would DOc, et al work for him knowing he was such a terrible owner (and that was common knowledge amongst EVRYONE)? Because they thought they could do it in spite of him.
I am well aware like everyone else that reverse racism exists. I am also well aware that everyone in the NBA and media is taking the "nose in the air" approach to this. A lot of it is for politics and public relations. However, the things the guy said are awful…and I don't think he should be defended in any way, shape or form. Throwing more mud out there (about Chris Paul, dementia, Sprewell, Elgin Baylor, etc) is a distraction to the fact that the guy is a racist…plain and simple. Why anyone would want to defend him is odd to me.
~Puma~
Yep. Some awful people no question.
1. The NAACP thing was due to the amount of money he has donated to their group, nothing else. From what I have read over the years to help counteract his deplorable slum lord reputation he donated tons of money to the NAACP.
2. Hadn't seen that, no comment until I read a little more about it
3. I think in Baylor's case it was a job, he was getting paid nicely, and he claims that he was always trying to win DESPITE Sterling. Plus sometimes people put up with really horrible situations when self-preservation is what they need and as you know those old-timers in the NBA didn't make much money so maybe in his life at the time he had to have the GM job to make ends meet, and since he sucked so bad, he knew no one else would hire him as an executive, so he was stuck in the job until he finally was fired.
4. Again, not sure how much he knew or cared, 21 million will make you look the other way a little bit, ESPECIALLY when you get a contract that only lets the owner sign your check and the players checks. That may be why he asked for so much authority when he was hired.
5. Also Sterling really wasn't that well known of a racist imho and not really that open about it to his players...Now when you read everything that has happened in his past you can see he has been racist for a long time, but most of that happened BEFORE the 24/7 news cycle, and social media. I mean really unless you were interested in reading articles about Sterling and his racist past it was really below the normal fans radar. As a minority reports of racism always have a greater interest to me, so I happen to read a lot of articles about racism when it happens, so I was actually aware of the racist stuff over the years, but at the time it happened all that was basically reported was say an article in sports illustrated, and maybe a 500 word blurb on the AP wire. Now with the existence of TMZ, Deadspin, Twitter, Instagram, Vine, this stuff goes from 1 or 2 websites to viral in about an hour, and back when Sterling was getting caught being a racist, going viral didn't exist.
6. The slave owner thing as private by today's standards, but in a lot of cases it wasn't all that private by the standards of their days. Historically there are lots of examples of the slave owner taking slaves to bed where it was a well known "secret" amongst the slaves, family and other plantation owners.
Its FOOTBALL time in the Bluegrass...and some basketball talk!!!!
You are right everyone is reprehensible...I guess to me it just shows you that you need to always be the person you are in public AND in private. So basically never say anything in private you wouldn't say in public. I am not a perfect person, and I do say some things in private that are wrong, but I have never said anything that rivals what Sterling said, and I basically hope that my character would always show through whether I was in public or private. Sterling has always been a racist and basically skated by, so this couldn't have happened to a more deserving person, so I have no issues with it at all.
Its FOOTBALL time in the Bluegrass...and some basketball talk!!!!
Exactly. It may have been obtained illegally or otherwise, but I couldn't be happier who it happened to. Guy has been let off the hook for years.
~Puma~
Who is defending him, I am not. I am saying a lot doesn't add up., and it shows how far people will turn their heads, regardless of color, to make millions. I have no use for the NBA or the Clippers after this. And I don't want to hear they didn't know because it was in the past. Baylor was one of the best who ever played, if rivers didnt know what Baylor was saying then he is an idiot. He knew, he wanted lots of money, he knew the Celtics were finished and he wanted a younger talented team, so he turned his head, made millions and hoped he would continue being thought of as a great coach. He is no different than a whore
And I think that's the point. This didn't happen to him because he said some things in private to his girlfriend, this happened because there has been a long pattern of this over the years. Somewhere I read that Silver was asked why the NBA had never acted on the prior issues and his response was that there had never been an admission of guilt on Sterling's part in the various suits brought against him. In other words, he plead out without admitting guilt so the NBA was unable to move.
As I told someone else, the FBI didn't want to get Capone on tax evasion, but it was all they had. My guess is that the NBA, or at least Silver, has wanted to get Sterling for some time. He finally gave them the cause they needed to get it done.
After the point shaving allegations came to light against Alex Groza and Ralph Beard, not only were they banned for life from the NBA but they were also co-owners of the Indianapolis Olympians franchise and they were forced to sell their share immediately.
Unfortunately for them, due to the scandal the stock price had already dropped and the shares were virtually worthless.
I get what you guys are saying. And I agree, the guy needed to go. We're all in agreement there.
So, if it had been some law enforcement agent that violated his right to privacy in his own home, would you guys be okay with that? But because it was his 'paramour', then it's totally okay? You can't have it both ways, at least not like that. And let's be clear here, the guy was not under any investigation for any criminal wrongdoing when this was said, at least not that I'm aware of. But because it came about through a girlfriend, even though while in the privacy of his own home, some of you are okay with it?
So, under 'some' circumstances it's okay to violate another person's reasonable expectation to privacy as long as the desired results are achieved.
What if it had been YOU? Or a member of YOUR FAMILY?
It is very apparent to me that a crime may have been committed against him. All of his reprehensible past behavior notwithstanding, some of you are okay with violating his civil rights? If so, then this is beyond sad to me. It means nothing is sacred anymore. Values have eroded to being almost meaningless.
And as I stated before, EVERYONE involved out there in this situation is just reprehensible.
The FBI didn't get Capone. It was the Treasury Department that nailed Al Capone. There wasn't anybody smart enough in the FBI at that time that could do it.
MOLON LABE!
Absolutely not, and if they were violated he may have recourse.
I'll put my views in law enforcement terms, in large part bc it is the best example of this issue IMO. It's the Exclusionary Rule. Officer finds evidence of a crime but is ruled to have done so illegally, in the courts that evidence is then excluded, potentially letting the crime go unpunished.
In my ideal world the evidence is in, b/c the two issues are separable. The fact that the warrant wasnt' spelled right doesn't let someone get away with a crime. the evidence is used, the crime is prosecuted. the second act, the violation of his rights, is separately actionable against the city/state/whoever and he is due some kind of damages for it, but the "damages" he gets is monetary and not that he gets to avoid prosecution for the robbery or murder or whatever.
Same here. He may have some kind of action against the person for the damage done, but you can't put the genie back in the bottle so it's impractical to say he gets a pass for being a flaming racist b/c we found out he was due to this covert and maybe illegal act.
It's not ideal, nothing is in this area of law, but the real economic damages done to the NBA and the owners and all those who earn a living off the Clippers cannot be washed away by saying he was recorded illegally, thus the fact that it was done can't have bearing on their actions to protect their interests.
I will also add that I don't know if he was wronged or not in that I don't know Cali law on private taping of conversations. If it was a government entity he has a whale of a case, but it's a matter of state law what crime was committed if any in this case.
I don't like that his privacy was violated, but the fact that it was doesn't IMO restrain his partners in any way, it should come back on the person who violated his rights and she ay owe more money than she'll ever be able to pay.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
Good points, some of which I was going to bring up in further discussion, but you arrived there first.
I think we all pretty much agree on the result, but the "getting there" angle is going in about five different directions.
MOLON LABE!
I have been involved in lawsuits where I was unknowingly taped. It was one of my co-plaintiffs. I didn't like it at first. But, in the end, justice was served.
I don't what the California laws are regarding taping a person without consent. Sterling is free to sue the woman, if it is illegal in California, for all she has--or for what he has already given her.
That woman is a dead beat gold digger and if she can be sued and or found guilty in a court of law by all means that should happen.
I certainly have concern over law enforcement illegally tapping phones, sifting through garbage etc.
The difference is that if the police illegally wire tap you and then try to use that information your rights kick in. In this case no legal charges are going to be filed against Sterling so the issue of whether his statements are admissable or could be used to incriminate himself don't apply.
This woman is a gold digger and horrible person. He is horrible. There are not any heroes here. And frankly Sterling is known as a racist. Why this story got the traction it did and what he did in 2009 did not set off a firestorm is unclear.
Slow news day? This happened during NBA playoffs instead of the world series.
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