Suspensions

[Lfbj00]

I just seen on our local Fox affiliate here in Louisville on the news that the WKU suspensions of Raymond Sanders, Bookie Cobbins, and also Marcus Caffey, were done because of marijuana possession. They showed an interview with Joker, and he said that the suspensions were done swiftly after finding out about it, and that sometimes young men make bad decisions. They are all eligible for next weekend.

I've been on board with Joker for a long time now, and have defended him thru all of this mess. But I'm about done with it. Is this just another sign of how much non-control he actually has over this program? Or is it just kids being kids, with absolute awful timing? Somebody try to set me straight, because I am about to start putting my fist thru walls.

[bluesuedeshoes]

Wish I could help you with a better answer, but all I got is the name and number of
a doc who sets a nice wrist fracture. Don't ask me how I know........

[dan_bgblue]

Most college students are going to smoke pot and drink, or at least give it a try. Football players are no different. They have not been charged with a crime, so I feel Coach Phillips took the right action.

[blue2ksr]

I just seen on our local Fox affiliate here in Louisville on the news that the WKU suspensions of Raymond Sanders, Bookie Cobbins, and also Marcus Caffey, were done because of marijuana possession. They showed an interview with Joker, and he said that the suspensions were done swiftly after finding out about it, and that sometimes young men make bad decisions. They are all eligible for next weekend.

I've been on board with Joker for a long time now, and have defended him thru all of this mess. But I'm about done with it. Is this just another sign of how much non-control he actually has over this program? Or is it just kids being kids, with absolute awful timing? Somebody try to set me straight, because I am about to start putting my fist thru walls.

Maybe you should smoke one before you break your hand, and then have to pay big money to get the walls fixed.

[kritikalcat]

There's much to be concerned about; but a few players getting caught with some pot in their off campus residence is pretty far down the list. I'm still more upset about Joe B. Hall's '78 championship team blowing their shot at an undefeated season by losing to Bama after Coach Hall suspended players for pot and curfew violations :-)

[dethbylt]

Most college students are going to smoke pot and drink, or at least give it a try. Football players are no different. They have not been charged with a crime, so I feel Coach Phillips took the right action.

The WKYT article says they were arrested and cited. http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/T...170088596.html

[Darrell KSR]

They weren't arrested, just cited. The story mentioned an "arrest report," but they weren't actually arrested.

UK cops were the ones that issued the citation.

[Panama]

Just in case you didn't know, Mike Leach has a "zero tolerance" policy for marijuana. One time and you are gone. No excuses.

[jazyd]

Dan, I dont' think 'most' do. I think many might, but I disagree with you saying most do both or give it a try.

Most college students are going to smoke pot and drink, or at least give it a try. Football players are no different. They have not been charged with a crime, so I feel Coach Phillips took the right action.

[Darrell KSR]

Dan, I dont' think 'most' do. I think many might, but I disagree with you saying most do both or give it a try.

I agree with Jazy on the smoking pot--I think people believe that more are smoking marijuana than really are. I saw a study done in 2010 that showed about 21% of college students smoked pot.

On the other hand, I've seen recent studies that showed 72% of college students drank within the last 30 days.

I'm not going to condemn or bash Joker for his actions here. It was illegal, but he took swift disciplinary action. It may not have been as much as some wanted, but I can assure you that it hurt Raymond Sanders to have to miss a game, and it probably hurt the team as well. I won't throw the kids to the curb because of a marijuana incident. (sorry, I know, I know--young adults, etc.--I'm going to call them "kids" until they're about 25, even if they're in the NFL, because the part of their brains that deal with judgment and reasoning will continue to develop until they are at least 25).

[dan_bgblue]

Dan, I dont' think 'most' do. I think many might, but I disagree with you saying most do both or give it a try.

Fair enough. I was basing the comment on my days in the late 60s and early 70s. It was hard to find someone that had not at least tried it a little bit. Many did not continue smoking, but they were exposed, and unlike our former vice president, they did inhale.

[badrose]

Most college students are going to smoke pot and drink, or at least give it a try. Football players are no different. They have not been charged with a crime, so I feel Coach Phillips took the right action.

I agree. Using this as another reason to replace Joker only dilutes the argument.

[Catfan73]

Mike Hartline was suspended for his last game as a Wildcat after going to the Tin Roof and drinking a little too much. He was over 21. He called a cab to get home. He later got into a shouting match instead of going to bed. Compared to his punishment for that transgression, Sanders is getting off easy and his dad should be thankful that Joker has always had a soft spot for his son.

[Darrell KSR]

Well, each player was suspended for one game, Hartline's just happened to be his last one.

I like Mike, but he was arrested for 2nd degree disorderly conduct (active, verbal disorder with several women at 1103 Crescent Ave., including yelling, screaming and cursing at people at 3 a.m.), alcohol intoxication in a public place, and failure to notify address change to the Department of Transportation (I don't know the history behind that charge). He was also accused of hitting the woman he was screaming and cursing at in the jaw, although no assault charge was filed.

I don't compare Raymond Sanders' transgression as worse than Mike Hartline's.

[Catfan73]

Drinking beer isn't illegal. Public intoxication is illegal, but the public disturbance that got him arrested was rumored to be started by a female that had ulterior motives. No extenuating circumstances were apparently taken into account when it came time for CJP to discipline him. Hartline made a mistake that I think was maybe worthy of costing him a start but not the whole game. Just my opinion, but I think Joker jumped on the opportunity to get Morgan Newton a start in a bowl game.

I don't think smoking pot is the end of the world either myself, btw. I just don't see how what Hartline did and what Sanders did are equal in the eyes of our head coach.


[The address change thing--in Kentucky, you're supposed to have the address on your driver's license changed when you move. Hartline probably still had an Ohio license but obviously a Kentucky residence for most of the year.]

[Darrell KSR]

I view the smoking marijuana in the privacy of an apartment as less than public intoxication, verbal (and physical?) public altercations.

Rumor or not, it was a fact he was screaming and cursing at 3 a.m., drunk, in public. The actual charge is presenting a danger to yourself or others. The physical altercation, not charged, I'm ok with not considering that. The address thing is silly (thanks for clearing that up.)

Campus police handed out a citation for what happened with Sanders, no arrest. We can debate about the underlying cause all we want, and some will say, "marijuana is illegal and alcohol is not," but the totality of the situation has me seeing Mike Hartline's transgressions as worse than Raymond Sanders'.

I have no problem with the Hartline discipline. The timing was just very poor, but a one game suspension for an arrest for public intoxication under the circumstances described is fine with me. Would I have been fine if he had been suspended, say, one quarter?

Probably. Kids will be kids, and I always include those under 25 as "kids," because even though they are "legal adults" at age 18, and old enough to drink at 21, their judgment continues to develop until age 25 or older.

Oh, don't forget, Rich Brooks did the same thing for the Music City Bowl game in 2007. He suspended starting offensive lineman Jason Leger, keeping the senior out of his final college game, for almost the exact same transgression as Mike Hartline (public intoxication).

[Catfan73]

I understand 100% what you're saying Darrell, and I don't want to see Sanders miss anymore games either. I think we might be giving him some benefit of the doubt however that Mike Hartline never got is all I'm saying.

[BudCat_upthecreek]

Oh, don't forget, Rich Brooks did the same thing for the Music City Bowl game in 2007. He suspended starting offensive lineman Jason Leger, keeping the senior out of his final college game, for almost the exact same transgression as Mike Hartline (public intoxication).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jason start a fight in a club in Nashville the night or 2 nights before our bowl game, it was actually a much different situation than Hartline screaming and hollering with a Female whom he had a past incident or two with who had a score to settle and had promised to get even previously.

Jason's situation brought public embarrassment to the team during bowl week with a City full of KY Fans. I believe that was what caused that suspension.

Hartline's situation had a number of extenuating circumstances which weren't fully addressed. I too believe it gave Joker a reason to start a QB whom he has proved he'd go out on a limb for. IMHO Hartline sitting a quarter should have been the most after all circumstances were presented. Problem was no one bothered to investigate all the circumstances before making a decision. JMHO

[Darrell KSR]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jason start a fight in a club in Nashville the night or 2 nights before our bowl game, it was actually a much different situation than Hartline screaming and hollering with a Female whom he had a past incident or two with who had a score to settle and had promised to get even previously.

Jason's situation brought public embarrassment to the team during bowl week with a City full of KY Fans. I believe that was what caused that suspension.

Hartline's situation had a number of extenuating circumstances which weren't fully addressed. I too believe it gave Joker a reason to start a QB whom he has proved he'd go out on a limb for. IMHO Hartline sitting a quarter should have been the most after all circumstances were presented. Problem was no one bothered to investigate all the circumstances before making a decision. JMHO

Jason argued in public.
Mike argued in public.
Both were intoxicated.
Jason wasn't charged with anything other than public intox. Same for Mike (I don't count the bogus other charge.)

Jason's occurred before the bowl game, in Nashville.
Mike's occurred before the bowl game, in Lexington.

If Mike had not been drunk off his rear end he would've exercised better judgment.
If Jason had not been drunk off his rear end he would've exercised better judgment.

Everybody has a thought on this, but no, I don't agree with you at all that it was a much different situation than Hartline screaming and cursing and (allegedly) hitting a woman...even if you disregard the hitting.