I was taught if you cannot say anything nice about someone, just stay quiet..McCain

was lambasted by the NYT and WAPO in 2008. Basically painted him as a cold hearted cronie aligning with wackos....

Now he has angels wings and is being exaulted by them for sainthood.

I cannot stand two faced people and organizations. Since he was anti-Trump he now fits their narrative. Pisses me off.

I was not a McCain fan since the Keating time frame. I can respect him for his leadership in Vietnam. His men certainly respected him. But his time as Senator fell very short in my personal opinion.

May he RIP, and Iwill stop there.

^^ding, ding, ding^^


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Politically he lost me some over the years. As a man, he has my respect. Both sides should honor him and not politicize it.

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Originally Posted by KentuckyWildcat

Politically he lost me some over the years. As a man, he has my respect. Both sides should honor him and not politicize it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

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You think Chuckie Shumer would politicize it? Oh my!

This is the guy who picked Sarah Palin as a running mate. Enough said.

Those who knew him said he was cantankerous at best when he held a different opinion. I will say though that he wasn't afraid to disagree and stand by his principles.

In looking at how he planned his funeral, he had a lot of vindictiveness. It is a sign he wasn’t handling the end very well.

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Originally Posted by MickintheHam

In looking at how he planned his funeral, he had a lot of vindictiveness. It is a sign he wasn’t handling the end very well.

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Originally Posted by MickintheHam

In looking at how he planned his funeral, he had a lot of vindictiveness. It is a sign he wasn’t handling the end very well.

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McCain is a verified war hero. No doubt about it. And deserves great respect as a soldier.

But his record as a Senator was not all that great to be honest, and while beloved for "sticking to his principles" it's really questionable at best.

I could write a long diatribe on the details, but let's pick Obamacare to start. He voted to REPEAL it multiple times as long as his vote didn't count, but when it counted suddenly he voted the other way. This is principled?

yes he championed campaign finance reform with McCain - Feingold, but that's after he was admonished by the Senate for being a part of the Keating Five, directly injecting himself into an investigation to cover a big donor.

Oh, but he learned and reformed and realized he had to do better. He still has a massive war chest, and is just as good at playing the Washington game as anyone.

Also notice how for decades of service he never really, truly rocked the boat despite being a "Maverick"? He was seen as bi-partisan, but other than McCain Feingold he really pushed no other significant legislation, and that law left big loopholes for groups like unions, and subsequently has been almost completely overturned by SCOTUS.

I don't think he was a terrible Senator. He was better than most of those go along, get along types and the morons who mostly get elected, but he played the game very well too.

The media loves him now b/c he didn't like Trump. IN 2008 when he ran for office they reported on his famous temper, his possible affairs, etc.

He was IMO a middle of the pack Senator in terms of results. Not bad, but not worthy of having the Senate offices renamed in his honor.

If you want a Senator who has fought tirelessly to get REAL results, go read about Senator Grassley. You want to see what real dedication to reform looks like, real conviction to do something with your time and not just sell yourself as a Maverick but focus on your knitting, look at that guy.

I wish him and his family peace, and as a soldier he deserves the highest honor, but as a Senator and leader there's a lot of sales job around his reality.

(and yes, he is VERY vindictive, and was known to be long before Trump came along. No surprise he'd even put some in there for his funeral.)

He was extremely well regarded here during his presidential campaign.

I tried to disparage him back then but every rumor and theory proved false. He is an American hero and possibly the most respected member of congress I can recall.

Its a sad time for our country. The saddest since the civil war imho surpassing even the great depression and multiple major wars. Just as the senator warned.

This loss adds to that.

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Originally Posted by kingcat

He was extremely well regarded here during his presidential campaign. That's just a fact.

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He should be well regarded. Just dont' go over the top, like people love to do.

Trump isn't just mean or childish, he's pure evil from the pit of hell.

Mccain isn't just a war hero and a solid Senator, he's the greatest symbol of bipartisanship and integrity in Senate history.

marketing is marketing, and McCain is right there safe on the shore with his good buddies Joe Lieberman and Lindsey Graham. All are bi-partisan b/c they play it very safe in the middle. Some of that is conviction, some of that is just smart politics. That's why both parties try to get middle of the road candidates through the primaries.

Good Senator as Senators go (though it is a low bar), but a fair amount of marketing in there too. He managed to be a "maverick" who "stuck to his guns" despite never taking up a controversial stance in 30+ years. neat trick.

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

marketing is marketing, and McCain is right there safe on the shore with his good buddies Joe Lieberman and Lindsey Graham. All are bi-partisan b/c they play it very safe in the middle. Some of that is conviction, some of that is just smart politics. That's why both parties try to get middle of the road candidates through the primaries.

Good Senator as Senators go (though it is a low bar), but a fair amount of marketing in there too. He managed to be a "maverick" who "stuck to his guns" despite never taking up a controversial stance in 30+ years. neat trick.

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He is none of that. He is gone.

But if Mr Trump were to call for a banishment from mention in republican circles most of his base would agree. As they will for most anything the man does. And I do not see any limit on that.
My friends at the Legion were certainly none to happy.

You might be fooled into thinking I am exaggerating the situation as it exists, but I am not. This is a cult following we are talking about and until the denial is dealt with there is no common ground. Even when a great man dies, a member of the republican party, a man who was tortured for years because he would defend everyone of us here, he is dissed because another who was just too rich and sore to serve, demands it from his people.

My uncle refused to lower the flag on his house to half staff. I was there. And when it was reported on Fox news that Trump had changed his mind he told my cousin to go lower his.
That is extremely unusual and scary behavior. He and his whole family (he is 78 years old today) consider Putin and Russia equal to and the most staunch ally of the United States, and the Democratic party and anyone who doesnt defend Trump in every matter, enemies of the nation.

That's not the America either political persuasion grew up in. Its something completely new. And the problem is not our president,, it's the majority of his supporters.

Not all, but the majority of them.
And I think in time that will be clear to everyone.

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Originally Posted by kingcat

He is none of that. He is gone.

But if Mr Trump were to call for a banishment from mention in republican circles most of his base would agree. As they will for most anything the man does. And I do not see any limit on that.
My friends at the Legion were certainly none to happy.

You might be fooled into thinking I am exaggerating the situation as it exists, but I am not. This is a cult following we are talking about and until the denial is dealt with there is no common ground. Even when a great man dies, a member of the republican party, a man who was tortured for years because he would defend everyone of us here, he is dissed because another who was just too rich and sore to serve, demands it from his people.

My uncle refused to lower the flag on his house to half staff. I was there. And when it was reported on Fox news that Trump had changed his mind he told my cousin to go lower his.
That is extremely unusual and scary behavior. He and his whole family (he is 78 years old today) consider Putin and Russia equal to and the most staunch ally of the United States, and the Democratic party and anyone who doesnt defend Trump in every matter, enemies of the nation.

That's not the America either political persuasion grew up in. Its something completely new. And the problem is not our president,, it's the majority of his supporters.

Not all, but the majority of them.
And I think in time that will be clear to everyone.

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You really believe those who support Trump are mindless zombies. But then I havent heard any school kids singing "mmmm mmmm mmmm Trump" like I did with Barach Obama

Dave, no disrespect intended..seriously

But I have never seen such poor loser as the democrats have been. Its mind blowing especially considering what occurred under the previous administration. Talk about mindless followers. You had the indoctrination of elementary school children singing the praises of "the Messiah". You have people who openly voted for the president based solely on his race, which in my opinion is the very definition of racism. And anybody who had an issue with his policy was labelled a racist. When the fringe attacked him as being a non-citizen they were denounced by many including many republicans yet the democratic party as a whole including those in the government have made it a mission to delegitimize the Trump administration to zero criticism. The GOP was chastised for being obstructionist and were told the mandate was to "go along with the President" yet now the left plan is to OPENLY obstruct with things like proclaiming they won't vote for the SCOTUS nominee before the person is even announced. And now those who actually agree with Trumps agenda of economic growth, limited gov't and regulations, fair trade and strong borders are cult members who blindly follow??? To be honest, that is insulting to the core. I promise you will never see any videos of people chanting or humming songs in praise of Trump like you did Obama. But if you did I would strongly denounce it. And if I ever saw Trump call for banishment of mention of McCain or any other American hero, that to would garner a strong rebuke. The ONLY people who suggest such thing are NOT Republicans or Trump supporters but rather paranoid leftist who are intent upon stomping their feet like crybabies who didn't get their way. Republicans lived for 8 years with Obama as president. I guarantee we were not happy with it but most didn't act like spoiled children. I don't know of a single person who has not criticized Trump at some point, even his most adamant supporters. I sure can't say that about the last President, yet it's Trump that has a cult following? How absurd!

No, not everyone who supports Trump. A percentage do so because they believe it suits their tax bracket.

And there is so much in Your post I disagree with there’s no sense going full circle again. Suffice it to say the backlash from the Obama presidency and the misunderstanding of just what it meant to a race of people not so long ago held as slaves in a this country....And who view the work of Dr King as still in progress, contributes mightily to a sort of blind support of Mr Trump. Not by every supporter but the majority I believe
We should not begrudge them their celebration nor the anger shown over the backlash imo. I think we should have rather united to celebrate the democratic process that nurtured such a historical event

There is a huge difference in the two presidents. President OBama represented more than the people of the United States. And everyone should understand that and appreciate it.
Those children should not have offended you and probably wouldn’t have without the political talking points that sprang from that and other things

The backlash is especially evident when the past presidency is used to defend and excuse the current one. That speaks volumes

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Originally Posted by kingcat

No, not everyone who supports Trump. A percentage do so because they believe it suits their tax bracket.

There is a huge difference in the two presidents. President OBama represented more than the people of the United States. And everyone should understand that and appreciate it.
Those children should not have offended you

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The children did not offend me. Personally I believe the President of the United States should represent the people of the United States first and foremost.

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Originally Posted by Doc

The children did not offend me. Personally I believe the President of the United States should represent the people of the United States first and foremost.

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I believe he tried his best to do that while understanding the extra hope which was placed in him by destiny.

Just to be clear, I do not claim racism in most of Trump supporters but an extreme bias taken advantage of by those who would not hesitate to promote such hate to aid in their political ideaology. An ideaolgy that has taken on a religious fervor. Both sides have been guilty of it.
But the fact remains Mr Trump is afforded a pass on things that were judged harshly with regard to OBama. Vacations, golf outings, etc were constantly hailed asa lack of concern for the office and country. Now the country is ran from the golf course and vacation spots more than Washington and without question from those same individuals
And those are just the insignificant differences

Well, I guess we will disagree because I don't think Trump has been given a pass on anything. Sometimes he does not deserve a pass based on his actions, tweets, comments, etc... But as a rule, Trump gets no benefit of any doubt. Is the opposing party going to be critical of the President? Sure. But I don't recall anything of even close to something like taking picture of kids in cages from 2014 and using it to paint the current president as being the one throwing children in cages. But back to the point....there is nowhere near the "cult like" following of Trump that there was for Obama. Not even close. I don't begrudged BHO for that. In fact Kudo's to him for building that base and that level of dedication. But the idea that Trump supporters are mindless morons is far fetched to say the least. Hell, he doesn't even have the full support of his own party. A large segment of the GOP isn't in his corner. It was selling the Trump supporters short that was a big reason Hillary lost. Not only are they "deplorable" but also mindless followers?? I don't doubt that many on the left see Republicans in that light. I find that funny considering how you do see people in the GOP who will buck the party like McCain, like Rand Paul, etc... yet there are not too many democrats who step out of line.

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Originally Posted by kingcat

He is none of that. He is gone.

But if Mr Trump were to call for a banishment from mention in republican circles most of his base would agree. As they will for most anything the man does. And I do not see any limit on that.
My friends at the Legion were certainly none to happy.

You might be fooled into thinking I am exaggerating the situation as it exists, but I am not. This is a cult following we are talking about and until the denial is dealt with there is no common ground. Even when a great man dies, a member of the republican party, a man who was tortured for years because he would defend everyone of us here, he is dissed because another who was just too rich and sore to serve, demands it from his people.

My uncle refused to lower the flag on his house to half staff. I was there. And when it was reported on Fox news that Trump had changed his mind he told my cousin to go lower his.
That is extremely unusual and scary behavior. He and his whole family (he is 78 years old today) consider Putin and Russia equal to and the most staunch ally of the United States, and the Democratic party and anyone who doesnt defend Trump in every matter, enemies of the nation.

That's not the America either political persuasion grew up in. Its something completely new. And the problem is not our president,, it's the majority of his supporters.

Not all, but the majority of them.
And I think in time that will be clear to everyone.

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Are you really naive enough to think that Democrats and those on the Left don't have the same "cult of personality" among most of their supporters? The whole phrase "yellow dog Democrats" came about in the late 19th Century and carried through for a century b/c it meant Democrats who would vote for a yellow dog before they'd vote outside the party line.

How's that for a "cult"?

So stop acting like Trump or Trump's followers are somehow the impetus for that way of behaving, or that it's even unusual, b/c it's not. In short, get over yourself. Both sides are chocked full of people who believe whatever their leaders tell them, something I rail against on here about constantly.

So just as Trump supporters, some of them, may follow lock step with him, many on the Left are convinced Trump is still the worst thing ever in American history b/c they are told so, despite there being any actual evidence a year and a half into his Administration.

Now, as to how that relates to my post about McCain I have no damned idea. If you are implying that I am saying what I am b/c of McCain's feud with Trump, you are very mistaken. I have followed McCain's career, and that of most key Senators, since the 1980s. Somewhere I have a copy of the book on the Keating 5, published decades before I ever heard of Donald Trump. McCain-Feingold was early 1990s, again, long before Trump. In fact their overlap is almost non-existent politically.

So not sure why we're discussing Trump on a McCain thread, other than to imply that those questioning raising statues to McCain must somehow be in the "Trump Cult".

Oh, and re the flag thing, Trump didn't actually change his mind. The White House observed the Flag Code to the letter re McCain, which says the flag is lowered the day of death and the next day. That's written policy. Trump overrode it to lower the flag again, but "changed his mind" again falsely implies he is the one who decided to put it back up, a claim for which there is no evidence at all. It was put back up as a matter of staff policy, and I doubt the President, any President, really is consulted on such minutia when there is already a prescribed code to follow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingcat

I believe he tried his best to do that while understanding the extra hope which was placed in him by destiny.

Just to be clear, I do not claim racism in most of Trump supporters but an extreme bias taken advantage of by those who would not hesitate to promote such hate to aid in their political ideaology. An ideaolgy that has taken on a religious fervor. Both sides have been guilty of it.
But the fact remains Mr Trump is afforded a pass on things that were judged harshly with regard to OBama. Vacations, golf outings, etc were constantly hailed asa lack of concern for the office and country. Now the country is ran from the golf course and vacation spots more than Washington and without question from those same individuals
And those are just the insignificant differences

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And now those on the outside level those same criticisms that they were quite about with Obama, and will be again when their guy is in office.

Is it a surprise that people do this regularly in politics, constantly engaging in such hypocrisy? Of course not, but it is the same for Trump as it was Obama and will be for the next guy. Clinton was a borderline sexual predator but those on the Left held their nose and ignored it and went all in for him, and Bush II had many flaws and those on the Right did the same.

I don't deny it happens, I just deny it has happened disproportionately with Trump. He doesn't have any more of a "cult" than Obama did, or most any other such leader. IMO Obama has had the biggest such "cult" in my lifetime outside of Reagan. Reagan's was the biggest b/c he was the most persuasive, the most connected. Obama is second. Honestly Trump's is small by comparison, most everyone I know who voted for Trump have openly criticized him on at least something.

I have made an effort to point out that I am speaking about a large segment of Trump supporters. I am not foolish enough to lump everyone together, nor fall into the trap of being painted as attacking my friends here. If I Included all of you I would not even be discussing it here

Trump sure has his faults but Obama made no attempt to hide his contempt for white people, the police, the military, etc. He apologized for this country on nearly every trip he took overseas. His wife was worse.

They were a disgrace to this country BUT I still wanted the country to succeed. Apparently Democrats are openly hoping Trump fails in every endeavor; the Nation be damned.

Darryl

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Originally Posted by Darryl

Trump sure has his faults but Obama made no attempt to hide his contempt for white people, the police, the military, etc. He apologized for this country on nearly every trip he took overseas. His wife was worse.

They were a disgrace to this country BUT I still wanted the country to succeed. Apparently Democrats are openly hoping Trump fails in every endeavor; the Nation be damned.

Darryl

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I just completely disagree with all of that. But I'm happy to hear from you anyway..

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Originally Posted by kingcat

There is a huge difference in the two presidents. President OBama represented more than the people of the United States. And everyone should understand that and appreciate it.
Those children should not have offended you and probably wouldn’t have without the political talking points that sprang from that and other things

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Uh, NO! This is why I truly despised POTUS Obama. President of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Not world. Not a Race of People. Not any other country. Period. he saw himself (as to many on both sides of the aisle) as the worlds leader. He was not and Trump actually gets it. His job is to represent what is best for AMericans...PERIOD.

Dave, I was never offended by anything Obama did. I strongly disagreed with much of his policies, and for that I was called a racist, not that I care. He did what he thought was right which is exactly what a president should do. Problem is under the current administration, the objections are not to policy. They are simply objections to be obstruction. I mean the left announced they were against the SCOTUS nominee before he was even announced. Interesting tactic considering their objection will be based on Kavanaugh having predetermined rulings. Oh, the hypocrisy of it. You don't want a judge who has prejudged which is exactly what they did. I understand the left being against tax relief policies....I just don't get the "Tax cuts for the rich" when its primarly the rich who are paying taxes. Are we to give tax breaks to those who don't pay any federal income tax? I also laugh at the "rich don't pay their fair share" mantra. The rich are the ones funding the gov't and pay the majority of taxes. Rich bosses don't pay less than their secretaries. Talk about bogus. Make a million dollar and pay 20% is more than making 100K and paying 25% because in my schooling I learned that $200,000 greater than $25,000. And I understand the wanting of Universal Health Care, patterned after other countries. However what is always overlooked is the MINIMUM TAX RATE of those countries. Canada-19% (plus 5% VAT). Engand-20% (excluding the first 11,850 euro which is $13,700 US dollars). Japan-15% (5 fed and 10 local). Sweden-29% (excludes first 3,000 US dollars). The list goes on. These countries where you get free stuff have to tax the crap out of the poor where as the US the poor are not taxed on federal income. Obama, and the leftists, want to give away all this free stuff, from health care to college to increasing welfare, etc but want it paid for solely by the so called rich. Sorry but it can't be done without taxing the poor. Its the give it away and let the rich pay for which I disagreed with. I disagreed with the gov't purchasing cars and destroying them aka "Cash for Clunkers". Talk about a waste of money and a policy that affected millions of workers, something I saw as my father was in the used car auction business. Suddenly millions of resources disappeared. People talk about how the rich were taken care of with the tax cuts, well what about what Obama did for the "green inititive". Lets talk about Fisker automotive! I also disagreed with the constant attack on LEO's that was carried out in the name of "social justice". Both my daughter and her fiance work in law enforcement...he as an officer (starts next week) and my daughter in dispatch until she finishes school to work Crime Scene. This was a man who put their lives in danger with his rhetoric. So while not offended, I strongly disagreed with his policies. All those are policy decisions. Contrast that to what is currently occurring where the objection is more to the President's non official duties. Russian Collusion...give me a break. The DNC was more in bed with Putin and his cronies than Trump. Stormy Daniels and "hush money". Yeah, because the democrats are the party of high morals. From Kennedy to Clinton, the sexual escapades are epic. And every day I hear about how Trump is a racist yet I've not seen him actually do anything to support that claim. Sure, the left will paint every move he makes as "racist" but because they call it that does not make it so. You may not like Trump. I don't, but as President he has the duty to do what he believes is right. As elected congress members, Senators and Representatives have a similar duty. But IMO what they don't have the duty to do is block just to block. I disagreed with Obama on many levels but never denigrated him or the office. I find it sad when it happens.

The left is all about identity politics. They got a label for everything. Including me. I’m a deplorable who bitterly clings.

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Originally Posted by bigsky

The left is all about identity politics. They got a label for everything. Including me. I’m a deplorable who bitterly clings.

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Yeah but which of the now 32 and counting genders do you "identify with"?

(an as an aside, if the participle is in quotes is it still dangling in that sentence?)

Everybody dangles.

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

Yeah but which of the now 32 and counting genders do you "identify with"?

(an as an aside, if the participle is in quotes is it still dangling in that sentence?)

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Me...Im a lesbian in a mans body. aka a "Manbian"

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Originally Posted by bigsky

Everybody dangles.

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Depends on your gender identity I think. Not sure which number I am this week. I'm quite sure they didn't make male heterosexual #1 in the sequence.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VirginiaCat

Uh, NO! This is why I truly despised POTUS Obama. President of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Not world. Not a Race of People. Not any other country. Period. he saw himself (as to many on both sides of the aisle) as the worlds leader. He was not and Trump actually gets it. His job is to represent what is best for AMericans...PERIOD.

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He (Trump) does not. let's be real here. Agree with him if you want but dont make him something he is not, nor has any desire to be.
He cannot say the word Democrat without hate on his lips nor does he respect anyone who disagrees with him for long. He would not deny that either. He represents only a segment of America..a segment he insists is the majority.
Still, that has nothing to do with what I said.

So as to OBama, how on earth anyone cannot understand that a race of people, held in chains in this country and only in the last 3/4s of a century granted the basic inalienable rights afforded American citizens, saw the first of their color to rise as high as the American dream can take them?
I had a tear in my own eye as the crowds gathered to celebrate that historic accomplishment. And honestly I am both offended and embarrassed that, that alone, could anger anyone.

"The sweltering summer of the Negro's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality." — Martin Luther King

..OBama becoming president was the epitome of invigorating. Worthy of Websters definition.

And as for the world...they saw the same thing and shared hope with all of us no matter who or where we are. That transcends politics.


Now, the job he done may or may not have lived up to that, but that does not change the big picture here.

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Originally Posted by kingcat

He (Trump) does not. let's be real here. Agree with him if you want but dont make him something he is not, nor has any desire to be.
He cannot say the word Democrat without hate on his lips nor does he respect anyone who disagrees with him for long. He would not deny that either. He represents only a segment of America..a segment he insists is the majority.
.

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Sounds just like Obama to me. but I'm just a guy clinging to my guns and religion, or what we now more shorthand call a deplorable. lol.

He only represented part of this country, and he made no bones about it. He was less obvious about it than Trump, but it was the same gig.

And while I'm glad we have moved to a point a black man can be President, a huge accomplishment, yes he is supposed to represent ALL the people, even those who have had all the other Presidents from their race.

the reality is that no President really represents all the people. Very few Presidents have even hit 80% approval ratings. I do think Obama wanted to be the "big grand leader" more than the partisan, which is more in the nature of Reagan or Kennedy, and Trump is far more partisan, but neither was in the end truly inclusive.

Washington is the only truly fully inclusive President in history, with both Jefferson an Adams, the leaders of the two separate parties, both in his cabinet. It fell apart immediately after he refused to stay President for life. lol

In fact it fell apart so hard that Adams, when he assumed office, passed the Alien and Sedition Acts to shut down freedom of speech and press and go after Jeffersonians. People think Trump is the end of democracy, when in truth the Founders themselves went farther than he would ever dare or be able to go. This modern version isn't even close to a crisis.