Redacted of course....
https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf
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Redacted of course....
https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf
I'm really curious to know WHEN Mueller had figured out there was no collusion. Maybe even before the last November election?
This investigation was a bunch of anti-Trump pit vipers, and they found nothing with 2 years and near unlimited powers, and totally unlimited resources. And some still can't accept it. lol.
They stacked the deck as hard as they could and still lost the hand. Get over it and move on.
When I get time I'll read it. Ought to be very insightful even with the redactions.
this will continue....and in yet another blatant example of hypocrisy, the left won't accept finding. Hypocrisy because they have always held the the investigation in Benghazi was settled by a special investigation, and those who don't believe the result are partisan hacks because a special investigation is the end of it.....so long as its a democrat. Likewise the left had no issue with Obama invoking executive priviledge to cover for Holder in Fast and Furious compare to Trump who invoked nothing. You want obstruction? Look at how Obama and Holder obstructed! But the best is the criticism and suggestion that Barr is Trumps mouthpiece. Because Holder was so impartial!
But now the focus is that Meuller would not rule out Obstruction. In other words it up to Trump to.prove he did no crime. Our system does not work that way. PROVE HE DID SOMETHING, not say we can't disprove. How do you prove you didnt do something?
Just my own opinion, but I think Mueller put the burden on Congress for the obstruction charge. He didn’t have enough evidence to charge and win conviction. Barr saw the same thing, hence no charges. Congress can drag it out and impeach him. That would be a symbolic gesture at the most because the Senate wouldn’t have the votes to follow through with house actions.
From here on out, Trump plays the victim of all this, and the longer the left carries this out, the stronger his case becomes.
So now our justice system is you have to prove you are innocent. They did not find enough evidence to to charge a crime, great. Incredible that because Meuller could not find evidence to exonerate, the hunt goes on. It's like accusing me of sexual molestation and if I can't prove I didn't then I'm guilty. This is what our country has become. You saw ut in the Kavanaugh hearings. Mueller had 2 plus years, a team of lawyers and investigators, and an agenda to get Trump...and the best they could do was they could not prove he didn't do something. Its called prove a negativeQuote:
Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof
I agree with you about the legalities, but you and I both know that isn’t what this is about. Meuller didn’t find enough to charge Trump of collusion, but politically there is enough to be a dumpster fire. That’s what this has been about all along.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
I am page 46 and 400 pages to go; although several are redacted. It is pretty interesting thus far. Volume I focuses on Russia's effort to defraud the American people in the 2016 election.
I hope everyone reads it in full with an open mind.
Granted my position certainly shows a bias against the president. That is fair to say.
In the court of law every American is innocent until proven guilty. And yes I am someone who has preconceived beliefs about what took place. But had Trump been indicted, he would have been innocent until proven guilty.
Juries of course do not determine a person's innocence--they decide a person's guilt. There is a distinction in the terms not guilty and innocent.
I am a little surprised in how the report notes the difficulty in getting individuals to be honest and forthcoming in their testimony. I am looking forward to reading more about the obstruction part and more detail as to why the president was not required to be deposed in person.
I am only on page 46. The report describes wikileaks/Assange's rationale for disseminating the DNC information. He supported Trump's election because he felt the dems, liberals and media could join forces to try and limit Trump and the GOP's worst qualities while Hillary would go more or less unchecked by the traditional press and the GOP would behave worse.
Also Hillary was described by Assange as a liberalhawk who is a sadistic sociopath. Can't disagree with that. Of course I didn't feel like we as a country had much of a choice.
Mueller didn't depose the President for a couple of reasons.
First, he knew already there is no criminal charge of obstruction that could possibly be brought in a real court. Mostly b/c there was no crime, and also b/c no actual actions happened that impeded anything. Trump WANTING to fire Mueller isn't the same as firing him, and his reasons for wanting him fired are in fact 100% legit. Mueller should have refused the appointment b/c he is conflicted under federal statutes being a friend of Comey, a key figure in the investigation.
Hell, Sessions recused himself for just happening to mention the election to the Russian Ambassador. Mueller had a years long personal relationship with Comey and others at the heart of any question of obstruction and yet didn't recuse.
Second, it would have taken years to fight that out in the courts b/c Trump's staff would have very rightly refused the subpoena and it would have become a long battle. Mueller has a political timetable to meet here, and frankly since there was no collusion, dragging this out another year or so would be hard to justify once it all came out.
So he wrote the report to put in everything he could to give the Democratic House all he could so now it can be a political battle where requirements of evidence and standards and such dont' exist.
This was nothing more than a political exercise that in the end proved Trump to be about as clean as clean can be politically, which I find surprising myself, and now the Democrats are reduced to trying to impeach him for non-actions to supposedly cover up for a non-crime. Uh huh. That's going to end well for them.
They are utterly blinded by their hatred. It's a kind of religion now, akin to watching the Spanish Inquisition or the Salem Witch Trials, where people have so utterly lost perspective they are now locked into persecution as their only outlet for emotional frustrations they simply refuse to recognize.
Of course those in charge aren't so consumed, they're just playing for the theater. But their base are ready to grab the torches and pitchforks and march on the wrong doers, so they feed the flames.
In the end it will cost them the 2020 election though, b/c the middle of America wanted this investigation to play out, it has, it found no collusion whatsoever with Russia, and they consider the matter closed. Dragging it out another couple of years in the House, while not doing anything to address real issues that impact their daily lives, will cost them dearly in the end, just as it cost the GOP when they did the same with Clinton.
I find it troubling that Mueller avoided investigating the entirety of the topic. The Clinton campaign through Steele colluded with the Russians, and Mueller completely avoided the topic.
It was a political operation, and it drew political conclusions. the saving grace for Trump is if they had a shred of collusion they would have pressed it,which means there wasn't anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithKSR
All the rest is 100s of pages of anything they could give to the House to help them go after him next.
The whole process has been obvious throughout, and all the players are deeply in bed with each other, and there is more than ample evidence of it.
Of course he avoided it. He was told to investigate the president and forget that Hillary had ever been born.
If the team of investigators that Mueller assembled couldn't find dirt on the president, there is no dirt. They were handpicked, because they all were biased against Trump and wanted to take him down. They had all the time in the world to come up with something, as well as an unlimited supply of money the all the tools to do the job. If the investigation against the deep state and the Obama DOJ has half the effort put into it as the Mueller investigation, heads will roll.
It appears that even if the administration can not make the swamp investigate Hillary and her friends, they will fly that flag high and keep a light shining on it as long as possible. They may also gain some traction on other investigations they want to see take place.Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_bgblue
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...n-russia-probe
The AttorneyGeneral knocked it out of the park at the Senate hearing. So did the Senior Senator from South Carolina.
wish Trey Goudy was still in office. He can be savage.Quote:
Originally Posted by MickintheHam
Yesterday showed the lefts true colors. They complain about Trump being juvenile and "non-Presidential" (Which he is) while they act like little spoiled rotten children. The senator from HI looked like a raving idiot. Somebody needs to grow up. The left act like I did when I was 6 years old and got beat in a game. Whine, pout and accuse the winner of cheating because I did not like the result. Coup attempts don't only happen in Banana Republic.
As for Barr, it is ####ing hilarious they acccuse him of being a puppet of Trump, being the President attorney rather than the peoples attorney. This from the party of Eric Holder! The irony of that is on par with The "University" of North Carolina. They complain because Barr took 3 weeks to release something he was under no obligation to release, something that took TWO YEARS to produce. They complain because his summary, while accurate wasn't good enough because Meuller complained about the context....yet the entire report is there for any moron to read and get the context. A summary does not incorporate context by definition. It is a summary! All context is removed, otherwise its the whole report. That is the point of a summary.
Mueller’s legal position working from conspiracy law is documented. Collusion despite it often repeated use is not a legal term and is not a criminal defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenBBN
There was quite a bit of circumstantial evidence listed. While our intel community is not perfect, every single organization for our intelligence gathering said Russia attacked our election process and worked primarily benefit Trump.
Had Trump accepted publicly and denounced it he Russians I’d feel a lot better.
Instead when he met Putin in Helsinki, he all but performs a public sex act on a KGB thug.
He ain’t representing America well. I agree obama did not do well either but Trump’s stance on Russia is very disconcerting.
The spin machine is running in both directions... it’s not going away anytime soon. I just hope the current set of legislators get the picture when they are thrown out on their ears for doing something other than handling the country’s business.
And these are the people who want to impeach the president for not acting presidential?
Nadler likens Trump to 'dictator,' threatens Barr with contempt after hearing boycott
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nad...earing-boycott
They put a chicken in the chair...really? And I'm suppose to take these people seriously?
The adult remake of Romper Room.....smh
His stance is only disconcerting b/c you believe it to be so. Why I don't know, b/c there's nothing there to support it beyond normal politics other than his comments that sounded praising during the election.Quote:
Originally Posted by UKHistory
Well, Obama has made similar comments re Putin, yet he's not a Russian puppet. In terms of policy he was far FAR more pro-Russian, but not a peep of concern that he had been corrupted.
The Russians worked to create exactly what we have today, as much discord and distrust as possible. It's completely unclear, and Mueller never bothered to look, to see if the entire dossier was in fact aided by Russian intelligence designed as disinformation against Trump, again b/c undermining ANY elected US President is good for them. Trump or otherwise.
Now maybe they thought Trump would be friendlier to their cause, and there's some reason to believe that b/c Trump wanted to ally with Putin to work against radical Islamists which threaten both nations.
But so did Obama. So did Hillary. This isn't some kind of capitulation. The prior 8 years saw FAR more pro-Russian policy moves than what we've seen with Trump.
There's a difference between Trump having a policy opinion with which you disagree and Trump having a policy opinion b/c he's a corrupt agent of a foreign power. If we can get past that distinction maybe as a nation we can begin to have a dialogue. Until then I really don't know what to do.
Mueller found nothing, despite what clearly was a concerted effort to "Get Trump" operated without any real limits for 2 years. Sure he found some overlap here or there, but, and this is critical, no more overlap than we know existed between the Clintons, the DNC, etc. and Russia.
The truth is politically ALL of these groups have lots of contacts with foreign powers. Some of that is legit, some seems pretty gray and no doubt foreign nations lobby for their interests a lot.
In fact we now know the Ukranian government, afraid of Trump, apparently was "meddling" by trying to provide info to the CLinton campaign on Trump, just as the Russians were supposedly trying to do in reverse.
Yet Trump's motives and invovlement calls him into deep question, while Hillary isn't? Of course not, and I know you question both, but the point is that those kinds of things are clearly commonplace these days, and not a sign of having sold out the nation.
The only real lesson from all of this, other than the dangers of using the justice system as a political tool, is that the level of foreign influence in Washington is massive, and needs to be curtailed.
And frankly, Trump has proven to be a lot more willing to see America act on behalf of America even if it offends all those allies and enemies who are ALL lobbying us every day. If anything he's lived up to "America First" far more than his predecessor, which should thrill you to death if your concern is that he's too friendly with another country, even Russia.
And he's changed his stance on Russia over time as well, esp. re Ukraine and the Baltics. If anything he has been much tougher on Russia than Obama. So if the Russians were betting on a better deal from him they lost.
Middle America will be endlessly frustrated no one is dealing with actual issues. That's why the Senate and Trump need to put up real legislation, vote on it and pass it and send it to the House and let them ignore it, highlighting this "do nothing" 2 years of further "Get Trump" policy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof
The problem with the Mueller investigation is that it did not look into the originations of the dossier and the part played by the Dems, Clinton and the Russians in the creation of the dossier.
Or much else related to collusion for anyone other than Trump. We know now a DNC person reached out to the Ukrainians, we got nothing on Podesta's brother, and arguably even Uranium One might have been arguably part of his mission.Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithKSR
The long and short of it is this:
The Mueller team, full of DNC check writing Democrats, with unlimited time, money and judicial power, found ZERO collusion between the campaigns after 2 years of looking. You cannot possibly argue they weren't highly motivated and had all the time and resources to do the job and then some.
Did they find this or that little thing, or create some crimes through the investigation? Yeah, but no more than you'd find if you had 2 years and unlimited resources to investigate any administration.
Trump nor his staff are in league with Putin. They are not Russian agents, this was not all some big plot, and Hillary didn't have the election stolen from her.
She didn't listen to advisors, she has the personality of a doorknob, and she lost. Get the hell over it already and let's move on.