It seems some look for a narrative to fit their agenda.
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It seems some look for a narrative to fit their agenda.
"He's a race-baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot."
That quote from the many I posted above was from Lindsey Graham of course. That was before he and many other Republicans lost their spine and realized (like Governor Dewine today) that if you do not kiss Trump's ass....he will go after you. And like it or not, he has so much influence over his base that it often works.
And no doubt, Trump is a race-baiter. And to me, this is more dangerous than him being an avowed racist. Which again, many would argue he is....just not avowed. Here is an Athletic article on his "Racist" history. Includes plenty of actions...not just words. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...mments/588067/
But I digress. If he was more avowed and public about it, too many would write him off (including, I suspect, many on here). What he absolutely does do Imo is fan the flames of those who are racist. As his friend Lindsey Graham said, "he's a race-baiter".
I think Doc makes a really good point though. Trump DID do some things for black people that were in fact good. And I have no problem acknowledging that in the same post I accuse him of race-baiting. Both can be...and have been true.
And I don't mean good in the "when the economy was good it was good for black people" line. His expanded funding of HBC's was an important thing. And his signing the First Act was important (the work started during Obama's term and Congress passed). Both of these were good and he deserves credit for them.
So, how do these two things co-exist? How can he be a race-baiter but also do good things for black people?
My honest OPINION about Trump. As in, what does he deep down believe: He's a rich/wealthy asshole.
There are plenty of those on both sides. I think he looks down on poor people because he (like so many others) wrongly believes that if he were born in a poor, single parent home in Detroit that he would be just as successful. He's wrong but he believes that.
And so, like so many other wealthy assholes, he looks down on those that are poor. He classifies them as lazy. He classifies them as users. He respects wealthy/successful black people. But the simple fact is that minorities are disproportionately poorer. So, he looks at many of them with the same disgust he feels for all poor people. Its not outright racism. Its elitism. And that elitism has many racist overtones in how he views minorities because of his elitism.
That is what I believe he feels deep down.
The problem is that he is also now a politician. And he very quickly (like most politicians) became a chameleon. He was convinced (hand picked) by Steve Bannon and Roger Ailes that there was a path to him becoming President. And it worked!
It started with birtherism.
And then it turned into Nationalism. Do I believe Trump himself is a true nationalist? Not a chance. That guy would sell his soul to China for a buck (just like he did his ties, clothing line, etc). Because again, in his heart, he is just an elitist rich asshole.
But, he ran on that (and I am not knocking him for this) and it worked.
Build the Wall.
Muslim ban.
CHINA.
Saving the Suburbs.
Law and Order.
These were all chunks of red meat that so many in his base was starving for. Much of it was class politics. But much of it simultaneously touched on the racial tension that already existed. As many others have said....Donald Trump isn't an originalist. He simply was excellent at mirroring what so many already felt. And it won him the election in 2016. And it cost him the election in 2020.
And forgive the rant but this just needs to be said....
His bungling of Covid is not racist.
But it absolutely has disproportionally effected minorities. He spent months on a propaganda tour downplaying Covid. Holding super-spreader events and rallies. Telling (lying) everyone that it would go away by Easter...then summer....then November 3rd. He accused the left of "playing politics with Covid" when the entire time he was the one doing so. And it still cost him the election. It was his greatest challenge and his greatest failure as President. He was so busy running for re-election that he lost sight of his greatest duty....protecting Americans.
And if he had handled the virus well....he likely would have been re-elected. Karma.
And even now, when the election is over....he's still too busy running for President to BE the President. He hasn't been to a Covid task force meeting in 5 months. 5 freaking months. But he spends all day tweeting about how he won the election and dealing with his horribly thought out court cases.
Those aren't just "things that Trump says". Those are things Trump DOES. Or better yet, doesn't do.
We are averaging 1,000+ people dying a day. I have lost one family member and I have lost one family friend. Both believed Covid was a fraud. One of them had a Trump flag hanging on his house. And they trusted him.
I am still waiting for the numbers to be completed before I write more on the election, but the Navajo nation cost him the election in Arizona. And that is almost 100% tied to his bungling of Covid. These are not people who watch CNN (statistics tell us). Or the "lame stream media". These are folks that just died. By the thousands. Disproportionally so. They didn't need you or me to tell them who's fault it was.
They didn't die because Trump is racist. They died because he was a reality TV show host during a pandemic when we needed a President.
I think I'm out of touch. When did law and order become racist?
Also, is it more or less racist than a certain former VP calling black men super predators?
Law and Order did not become racist. I didn't say it did. I simply said its a phrase he ran on.Quote:
Originally Posted by goodycat
Biden never called black men super predators. https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...per-predators/
Ok I guess I misunderstood your point. And sorry, Hillary called them super predators and Biden called them "predators on our streets". And lol at politifact, "well Biden did say some would become super predators and later called them predators but he didn't specifically say what group he was talking about". This is probably said too often, but, if a Republican had said that...Quote:
Originally Posted by ukpumacat
I said this many times, because I believe it is so. That does not make him a racist though.Quote:
Originally Posted by ukpumacat
Nor is building a wall to protect our border..or at least it wasn't when the left supported it. IMO it is good policy
There never was a "Muslim ban". It is a fantastic political tactic to cal it one but there is no mention of religion in the ban. Christians from the region are banned as well, same for Jews.
China..about time somebody took them to task. And I won't even mention Biden's association with them
Why wouldn't somebody "save the suburbs" or "Law and Order". Not sure who would be against that
Here you guys go again..and prove my point. THIS IS YOUR OPINION! IT DOES NOT MAKE IT FACT!Quote:
Originally Posted by ukpumacat
Correct. That is my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by VirginiaCat
And also the opinion of his friend Lindsey Graham who called him one.
What?!? Its a "fantastic political tactic to call it one?? That is what HE called it. He ran on that as one of his chief actions that he would do on "Day One".Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
He literally called it a "Muslim ban" 300 times during his campaign in 2016.
Here he is saying those EXACT words during his campaign:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viDffWUjcBA
Here he is LITERALLY saying HOW they would do it: by asking Muslims what their religion was at Customs:
https://youtu.be/5I3E3-U-1jc?t=880
It became not a "muslim only ban" because it was deemed unconstitutional. He HAD to change it (3 times) to make it work legally. TO which Trump responded that it was “judicial overreach” and argued that the revised travel ban was just a “watered-down version of the first one.”
Here are other statements about the ban:
“Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.”
Press release from the Trump campaign, Dec. 7, 2015
“So when he first announced it, he said ‘Muslim ban.’ He called me up. He said, ‘Put a commission together. Show me the right way to do it legally.'”
Trump attorney Rudolph Giuliani in an interview on Fox News, Jan. 29, 2017
“Fundamentally, you’re still going to have the same basic policy outcome for the country, but you’re going to be responsive to a lot of very technical issues what were brought up by the court.”
White House policy advisor Stephen Miller in an interview with Fox News, Feb. 21, 2017
Trump was never a friend or mentor of a Klansman (as Biden was with Robert Byrd)
Trump does not get that southern accent when pandering to blacks. I expect Biden to bring out the ebonics next
Trump does not play Mexican Mariachi music when addressing Latinos. How condescending.
Trump does not stereotype ethnics into groups like "convenient store/donut shop workers" or "you ain't black" comments
As for Amoral...its not like Trump has been repeatedly caught plagiarizing.
Folks call Trump a liar. Fine, I get it but I would hope you would hold Biden to the same level, at least CornPop would or the kids from Sandy Hook that he visited, or even his cellmates from when he was arrested with with the UN in Soweto, or his Civil rights marchers, or those who have heard of his stellar academic record (you know "3 degree, Top half of my class Joe"), the list goes on.
Of course Trump isn't a child sniffer or groper either. Yeah, we know, Joe is just a good ole shucks boy
https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/w...e2-769x513.jpg
https://s3media.247sports.com/Upload...600&fit=bounds
get ya a lil' side boob there, Joe?? Pappa don't look too happy, huh?
I don't expect you to hold Biden to the same level of scrutiny. It would be nice, but it's not expected.
And as for Republican's making statements...LOT of liberals have had less than positive things to say about Joe. Did you watch the primaries?
Yup.Quote:
Originally Posted by catmanjack
The United States is not at all more racist than other countries, but it is more tolerant towards racism, racists, and radical groups across the spectrum than many if not most imo.
And so I am again stuck in the middle on this issue because I firmly believe, especially, in things like freedom from and of religion. And as Doc has pointed out, most all government regulation of any individuals life.
For instance, the separation of church and state is paramount to freedom of religion.
As is (within reason) a woman's right to choose because giving the government control of a woman's reproductive system is insidiously dangerous to any free society.
Likewise the constitution guarantees the right for racists to exist and function as citizens. And to limit the scope of that protection limits is for everyone.
Then again I am against certain types of gun control, but am for for sensible bans regarding it. I dont want my neighbor carrying a bazooka or machine gun around...especially since the constitution already allows him to be a racist or the like.
And now typing is making me dizzy..must be the muscle relaxer.
You do realize that he is READING what OTHERS are saying, right? It sort of like the "Good people on both sides" thing. Selective editing is a wonderful thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ukpumacat
I would love to see a list of the quotes from liberals about Joe and still waiting for those about Obama. Sure, there are some (that I am aware of). And as soon as they are posted I would be glad to do the side by side from above. Those quotes are all within the last 4 years. A few from while he was running, most from while he was President, and a few very recently. Of course, I didn't even include those of Romney who voted to impeach him, or Flake who campaigned against him, or Kasich who spoke at the DNC to beat him or the thousands of Republicans who are part of Project Lincoln because they believe he is a threat to democracy. I am absolutely positive you won't find those same quotes about Biden.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
As to your question, I am not sure if I am the "you" but I would be happy to answer it. I highly doubt I will be as critical of Biden since I am a Democrat. So a good chance I will not disagree with his policies nearly as much. But yes, he will be taking over during the worst of the Pandemic in January. Many states will be on lockdown again, hospitals will be full and deaths will likely be getting close to 400,000.
If, after he becomes President (or before), he starts tweeting and holding super spreader events and rallies downplaying the virus, refusing to have people wear masks, tweeting comparing it to the flu, making fun of people for wearing masks, etc etc (like Trump has done: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...08647/)....you better believe I will be on here criticizing it.
If, after he becomes President, he lies thousands of times to the American people (like Trump has: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQru...dex=36)....you better believe I will be on here criticizing it.
These are far and away my two greatest criticisms of him outside of many his policies which I of course (as a democrat) disagree with.
You are trying to tell me that Trump did not call his ban the "Muslim Ban", but instead was quoting others all the times he said it??Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
Doc, I am sorry man, but you are wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
He is NOT reading what others are saying. It was a direct statement from his campaign website.
They took it down because it was hurting them in their court case. Here is an article on that exact thing: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/08/trum...-briefing.html
Nobody starts something they are saying by stating "Donald J Trumps is calling for....." He would state "I am calling for". Also, nobody beside Joe Biden needs a paper to read when quoting themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by ukpumacat
Plus I don't take anything CNN states as accurate. They are the same people who advanced the Russia hoax, the impeachment hoax and who failed to follow up on Hunter Biden. Sorry but media reports mean NOTHING to me. I will watch video and make my own opinion. Oh, and I hold the same standard for ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, FOX, NEWSMAX, Breitbart, etc.....
But if he said it fine. I'll hold him to the same standard as Joe admitting he has set up the biggest election fraud organization ever...meaning I will give him a pass.
Edit: an in the shocking news of the day... I attempted to YOUTUBE the quote ("we have put together I think the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.”) and it can not be found. Guess the YOUTUBE police deemed it too offensive for the general public
Good Lord. He is not. He was reading the direct statement from his campaign website.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
I swear we are living in a twilight world when this is actually being debated. .
Attachment 9801
Here is another video of him saying the exact thing thing on Fox News:
https://www.politico.com/story/2015/...muslims-216504
But I am moving on.... Better things to do, like wash my hair and doing my toenails.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXl6R1ntSUI
I can tell you I know several white people that are being discriminated against right now because of their skin color. I can't give details yet, but I may very well end up being one of those.
This is not directed at anyone here. But if you can't see the corruption on both sides, then I truly feel bad for you.
Its not an if. He said it. He typed it. He defended it. He lost in court and re-wrote it. Then he lost again and defended it again. Then he couldn't help himself and said it was just a watered down version of his muslim ban while his lawyers argued the exact opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
It was a campaign promise. Which was my entire point of bringing it up. It was a huge part of the platform he ran on in 2016.
Build the Wall.
Ban the Muslims.
Ha. Dude. Just no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
And no, this clip is still all over Youtube. No Youtube conspiracy needed. Here is the full interview where its overtly obvious what he was talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
https://youtu.be/C6u1uKznCYw?t=1061
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bi...t-voter-fraud/
You have created a "reality" that does not exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
I judge racism based on the action, NOT the political affiliation. It is actually your perception that is creating identity politics here.
Of course there is discrimination against white people, but it pales in comparison to minority and religious discrimination and a white person will NEVER face discrimination to the effect of which they have doled it out for generations and continue to do so today.Quote:
Originally Posted by KentuckyWildcat
It's not about people not seeing it on both sides, it's about not acknowledging the disparities between white people and people of color, religious differences, sexual preferences, gender identity and the such.
Cleaning toenail fungus always seems like a better thing to do than to defend Trump's lies, bigotry and racism.
The thing that always gets me with Trump, and I will never understand it, people always say things like "your listening to the fake news", "he didn't say those things", "well what he really meant was...", "he loves this country more than anyone else", "he's just like me", "it doesn't matter what he says, it's about what he does"... I can go on and on.
I judge Trump on a pattern of his lifetime actions (a steady decline of everything moral and good), those that have worked with him over the years and what I can see with my own eyes.
Trump can't stand his supporters, but cherishes their support. That is the only thing that he really wants in his life, is to be adored.
LOL..you found a 26 min video that contained it. No 10 sec clip that misses any clarifying comments. Search "good people on both sides and you will find dozens of 10 sec clips that have no context where he states he is not referring to White Supermicists. And no need to fact check because I have stated many times the what he saud was not what he meant. That is obvious...as obvious as when Trump excluded the white supermacists, something liberals ignore.Quote:
Originally Posted by ukpumacat