students protesting climate change delay start of 2nd half 0f today's game with a sit in at midfield
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students protesting climate change delay start of 2nd half 0f today's game with a sit in at midfield
.....and of course your friends at ESPN give the cause full coverage. They didn’t even mention nor show footage of the Bama guy slashing the Baby Trump balloon.Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_bgblue
I was at the game (my nephew plays DT for Yale) and the protest was ridiculous. It started with about 50 or 60 mostly Harvard students. The police approached them but chose to do nothing. Once it became clear no action would be taken, many more people (students, drunken adults, etc) streamed onto the field. The PA announcer kept begging them to leave but of course they wouldn’t. The police finally were forced to move in but even at that point they just gently prodded kids to leave. Very disappointing reaction by the school/police. Thankfully it finally ended and I got to see one of the most amazing comebacks ever!
Gently prodded? Should have cattle prodded
Made their point peacefully. And thankfully no one reacted like it was Kent State.
Even though our parents and grandparents viewed protests of that day that exactly how everyone here seems to.
World view, and the scientific community strongly supports the views of these young people, so it's a point worthy of making. Not the only point, just as the war in 'Nam was divisive at the time. But one that has equal importance to any war ever fought if it so happens the opposition is incorrect. And if I may say, even if they aren't.
I just know that when the day comes that our young men and women don't stand up and speak out, their right to do so will quickly abate. Because the older we get the less inclined we are to stand up for anything that requires a lot of effort or reflects badly on our long standing partisan beliefs.
And I'm not trying to take a side on the issue of climate change. As no one doubts it's eventual impact.
But I applaud the young people forcing this conversation. Let's hope our government never reacts too harshly again.
https://strangesounds.org/wp-content...sacre-1970.jpg
Will they give up their cars?
Darryl
And I wanted to also add that any opinion holds the same value imo.
Protesting the protest is of equal value in forcing a serious national discourse void of political partisanship.
Peaceful protest is a constitutional right. Not sure if disrupting a college football game is the time or place though.
Until they pass a law saying otherwise it is. And then again, peaceful protest also went beyond the law in peaceful ways back in the day. Even so far back as the Boston tea party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfan73
Historically evidence says that many objected to going to such illegal lengths even then. Not to mention many of the protests of the 60's.
But honestly, if it were Duke students and we were leading that bunch by ten at half I'd likely agree with ya'
;)
Actually civil disobedience does involve the acceptance of a penalty. I dont have any admiration for Consequence-free civil protest; it looks like self indulgence. Be like Jane Fonda or Ghandi; get arrested For your beliefs.
Exactly. And in this case, they may have been peaceful, but it was against the law as they were trespassing and they should've been arrested. We've all seen what happens when a goon runs on to the field at a game. He will be forcefully taken down and arrested.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsky
Fwiw, they arrested about two dozen protestors.
So can I just go to any game at any time and just walk out on the field and if the police approach me I just say I’m protesting? This is ridiculous.
I'd imagine those arrested refused to leave when being escorted off the field. I applaud the effort of the many, if not the actions of the few.
I would not condemn the few however if they truly believe in their cause and do it to benefit mankind.
It is a legitimately debated and hugely important national and global issue (Although not disputed much worldwide).
And present authority has also taken a side, while using their power and position to promote its cause.
Did the rest of them have a hall pass to their safe space?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrell KSR
I am sure that there were several hundred fans there who bought tickets to see a sporting even not watch a group of protesters sitting at mid field. Their rights were not protected nor respected.
It certainly wont be good for the business of college sports if it becomes a commonplace a school activity.
:party0052:
is the point that we need to wring our hands, ban straws and ignore the actual variables that will drive this train?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingcat
I guess the scientific community supports that, b/c they do a ton of studies about climate and none about how to invade China and India and force them to get on board.
Sit ins are useless. Climate change has everyone just as woke as they're going to get. The problem is not that people don't "accept it", it's discussing how much of it is manmade, how much we can do to change it,and politically if we turned our country back to the 1700s if it would even make a bit of difference.
Those are the statistical questions the left doesn't want to address.
Of course all the obvious environmental things that will kill us quicker all go undiscussed, and un-sit-inned.
These were students at their school sporting event. There is a slight difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Blue
Regardless, if you lived through the sixties and seventies, you realize the value, or at least the impact of protest. The legality of it was not an issue back then for protesters. Peaceful did not mean they obeyed laws.
And like I said there were laws against destroying property in Boston broken for a cause that led to the independence of this nation. Just because global warming or the like is not important to you does not mean others aren't passionate about it, and very concerned about their future as well as the future of their children, grandchildren, and beyond. That is what many feel and believe, just as many believed the Vietnam war as it was being handled needed to stop.
Here's a snippet of how the threat of shutting down Washington DC itself helped accomplished a desired goal.
The Mayday Protest in 1971 is a prime example of how citizens used the nation’s capital as the ground on which to stage their disapproval. Activists planned to shut down the city completely, handicapping the government and making it impossible for it to function. Protesters camped out in masses on the edges of downtown Washington on May 2, 1971. They chose this place so they would be able to spread out along the entrances to the city as quickly as possible the next day. Traffic was stopped, at least for a few hours, and although it angered some commuters, no one could disregard the strength of the movement. CIA director Richard Helms remarked that Mayday was “one of the things that was putting increasing pressure on the [Nixon] administration to try and find some way to get out of the war.”
Just a single example. I submit that your disagreement with their cause plays a part in the overt criticism.
Ill sit in with ya' Chuck! No work, just sitting (which I am very good at)Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenBBN
That there is a difference of opinion cant be denied. There always has been otherwise protests are useless. You get your tools and start fighting the oppressor.
Simply put, its not a left or right issue we are discussing although that is primarily driving the opinions of many. Nor is it the issue being protested. It is whether you believe in their right, and at times the necessity to do so?
(Generally speaking) Do you believe the protests over the Vietnam war that interfered with daily life and public function were inappropriate at the time?
Or that the Boston tea party should have obeyed the existing law and stated their grievances in an orderly fashion? Or other examples concerning Womens rights, civil rights, etc..
College campuses in particular teemed with young people who had the freedom to question the moral and spiritual health of the nation back in the day. They were a vital component of the social change movements of the 1960s doing the same sort of thing we are discussing.
I supported, and still support their right to do so. Either one did/does..or they didn't/dont. Or they believe it depends on if they agree with the movement or not.
I remain consistent on this and would also support the right for those who disagree with their cause to do the same thing they did.
I have an opinion about global warming.
And that is..that it exists and we must prepare for the oncoming effects of it.
As to preventing those effects or if we have caused it, I have no idea.
But I know what formed and has kept this country on course, and free. And that is peaceful and effectual protest that shakes the status quo and moves those in power to enact change.
What I see in this protest is Democracy at work. If the cause isn't just it will fade and be proven incorrect. But if their concern proves justified history will record it and laud their effort.
http://www.lessonsite.com/ArchivePag...les/canada.bmp
I'm sorry, are you comparing a bunch of half drunk football fans sitting on a field to the culmination of YEARS of events and killings that became the Boston Tea Party?
First that ignores the fact that the dumping of British East India tea in the harbor was some kind of singular act. That's false. It was years of events that lead up to that event, including the Boston Massacre and numerous other events, most notably a long term boycott on taxed goods passed in the Stamp and Townshend Acts, especially on tea.
The British East India company was taking huge losses due to smuggling of non-British tea by the time of the Tea Party, and the economics of this and smuggling of tea had gone on for years.
IN the end it was in fact the reaction of the crown to the tea party that really made it significant, as it was the impetus for the Intolerable Acts, which REALLY got the Colonists going. Meant to single out Massachusetts and make an example of it, it in fact rallied the Colonies together.
That more than anything was the significance of the Tea party protest.
In that respect it is like Kent State. It wasn't the protest that was significant, being not unlike 100s or 1,000s of other college protests of the era. It was that national guard troops opened fire that made it a key event.
So this I guess could really be an effective protest had campus police killed some of them, but otherwise this protest will be utterly meaningless in the course that climate change politics takes in this country. IT will end up exactly the same whether that game was held up or not. Its marginal benefit to any cause is statistically zero.
That's not to mention the fact that protesting for climate issues these days is about as telling as protesting for the ills of smoking. I think people are pretty aware that the issue exists, which is the main reason to protest.
And unlike Vietnam, which had an obvious action plan for protests, i.e. to pack up and leave, there really isn't one for this issue. It's really just protests for awareness b/c they don't seem to protest for particular courses of actions, and since everyone is already aware it's not having much of an impact that this point at the margin.
What it may do is lead to a lot of knee jerk stupidity, like banning straws, but is very unlikely to lead to real changes on a scale to actually matter, like banning voluntary travel for visiting your family (though AOC did have the guts to propose that level of action).
So no I'm not just biased, something you often accuse me of BTW, I'm simply pragmatic. It's a silly self indulgence by elitist kids who have as much grasp on reality as a coma patient, which will do nothing but let them all brag at the kegger later than night about how gutsy and meaningful they are, in hopes of getting laid.
I've stated my opinion on protests. And no this is not unlike the majority of protests in the 60's. Especially on local levels and at the beginning.Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenBBN
And eventually across the nations college campuses.
As far as being biased I've not accused you or anyone of unfair bias here.
I have stated (poorly it seems) that just as many did not support these other instances of protest because they did not believe in the cause (whatever cause that may be) it is likewise only natural many disagree with this protest.
And there are about a thousand other instances of protests both small and large in the sixties, but used those above because they are common and made my point.
That is not an attack or accusation. And even if I agreed with you on the global warming issue, I'd say the same. Perhaps not as boldly, heck I cant say for sure.
And yes, you, I, and everyone here are biased to some extent in about every way.
But, I have tried to present a fair opinion to you in a friendly way about a matter that over these many long years here, if you go back far enough, I have consistently expressed this same opinion with conviction. Again, not about global warming...about protesting for a cause.
And at best, our country is split down the middle relating to it. Much more support than the 60's anti-war effort started with.
And I will continue to express support for protest as a means to a good end, settled one way or the other, as long as my opinion is welcome.
This is not an argument to be lost or won on my end. It is who I am.