I was taught if you cannot say anything nice about someone, just stay quiet..McCain

Good stuff. The crisis stuff didnt play any part in my post. I just had an opportunity to sneak a jab in and took it. :)

But, I still think it very important to acknowledge the added significance to the OBama presidency.
And even if someone doesnt share that importance, to deny that he (by default) also represented something more, more so than any other president in history, is at best just willful blindness. That says nothing about the job OBama did or anyone else has done in office, but is just a fact.
And by itself, it is certainly not something which should anger anyone.

He represented the epitome of equality in the eyes of many people. Many of whom had been victims of racial and social inequality both in this county and worldwide. And as I implied, it was immediate and "by default".

And no one has to respect or admire the man to admit that.
Yet, every American should be as proud of that as they are the American flag. Because that is what the flag represents. Of, by, and for the people with certain God given inalienable rights..and equal opportunity for everyone.

Heck, even I could have been President..

Dave, as Chuck said, your definition of Trump was exactly what I saw in Obama. A man who led his party and made no bones about his partisianship. He told the GOP that it was the peoples mandate that they go along with him. Told them to get in the back of the bus (something had a white person stated it would have be labelled racist) while he drove the bus. He use executive orders to pass laws he could not get thru congress and had no issue about by passing the legislative process, and it is Trump who is a danger to democracy?

Trump has repeatedly reached out to democrats and even offered compromise yet the left is set on nothing but shutting him down. Liberals often bring up disenfranchised voters yet are attempting to disenfranchise half this nation, the half that elected Trump. It was a monumental event when BHO was elected and said much about race relations in this nation yet he used it to set back the racial tone of this nation with his social justice agenda. He led from one side of the aisle and made no attempt to involve the right.

As far as enemies go....Trump just calls them out, calls them names. Obama sicks the weight of the government on his, from the IRS to ill gotten FISA warrants. Interestingly, in the 40 some years I been paying taxes I never got audited until the last 2 fiscal years of Obamas term. Got notices I owed $3,000 one year and $1,500 the next. In reality it was $36 and $39. Perhaps the audit was a result of me being a registered Rep. Perhaps its because the year prior I had a 6 figure tax bill (sold my business) and then it want back to 25% (cuz rich folks dont pay their fair share!). I tend to blame the later but who knows. In both cases the IRS was wrong, and in both cases I had to foot the bill for my accountant to challange and prepare the response. But odd that 2 years in a row..both times IRS mistakes (one they misread the chart twice, the other they missed a major deduction that was in my filing). Odd but stranger things have happened.

You often claim or imply that Trump followers simply agree with him. This isn't even close. I don't know a single Trump supporter who doesn't think he is a childish, petulant douche. Ive not seen him called anything close to "the Messiah", a term often used to describe BHO by his devoted minions. But I don't care about Trumps personality etc. I care about his policy.

That said, I didnt begrudge Obama for how he led. He was elected twice. Legally elected and I respected that. I didnt hope he failed. Those who fought just to be obstructive were embarrassing in my opinion, as were "the birthers". But that segment was small compared to the left. The left often accuses Trump of being devicive. How ironic coming from the party the practices divide and conquer. If its not attack the rich, the law enforcement, its call them racist, call them deplorable, etc....The left calls out Trump for being obnoxious and overbearing. Another bit of irony, or hypocrisy considering how the left behaves. Prime example was yesterdays SCOTUS nominee hearing. Constant interupting by yelling liberals in the audience (and that isnt an overstatement).

Im just tired of the Obama was the grestest thing since sliced bread who could do no wrong and Trump is the antichrist. Neither is accurate. Obama and the left had their turn. The next election they lost. The left needs to put on their big boy pants, or big girl pantsuit, and deal with it like adults. Trump is a petulant child but he is one person, with is far less than an entire party of crybabies who cant deal with the fact they still dont run the country.

I understand your point of view and respect it even if I disagree with some things. Those have been stated enough that we know where we stand politically.

But the coversation keeps turning from the point I have tried to make. That could be because of the assumption it is intended as knock on the president. Something I understand is expected of me here. But even if Trump was FDR in my eyes, It doesn’t change what I am trying to say

If your point is the McCain was a great man, I agree that every war veteran is such. I also believe he did some very patriotic things during his internment. No doubt he should be respected for that.

I don't agree about the dire times though. I see nothing that makes me even think they compare to things like the Civil War. IMO its far better than when interest rates were at 20 plus %, we had hostages in Iran and you couldn't find any gas. Heck, times were worse under the economic disaster that Bush created [/sarcasm off]. Personally I find these last 2 years far better than the previous 8 despite the government acrimony. I don't worry about Russian Collusion like some because collusion wasn't a hard issue until Trump won, and being realistic we know its an issue now because he won. I don't wory about racial tension because Ive never owned a slave, nor do I know of any person who was a slave. So its all about perspective.

The post just above your last is what I refer to Doc. And another just previous to Chucks last one

In response to “this is why I hate ..

So as to OBama, how on earth anyone cannot understand that a race of people, held in chains in this country and only in the last 3/4s of a century granted the basic inalienable rights afforded American citizens, saw the first of their color to rise as high as the American dream can take them?
I had a tear in my own eye as the crowds gathered to celebrate that historic accomplishment. And honestly I am both offended and embarrassed that, that alone, could anger anyone.

"The sweltering summer of the Negro's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality." — Martin Luther King

..OBama becoming president was the epitome of invigorating. Worthy of Websters definition.

And as for the world...they saw the same thing and shared hope with all of us no matter who or where we are. That transcends politics.


Now, the job he done may or may not have lived up to that, but that does not change the big picture here.

And..


But, I still think it very important to acknowledge the added significance to the OBama presidency.
And even if someone doesnt share that importance, to deny that he (by default) also represented something more, more so than any other president in history, is at best just willful blindness. That says nothing about the job OBama did or anyone else has done in office, but is just a fact.
And by itself, it is certainly not something which should anger anyone.

He represented the epitome of equality in the eyes of many people. Many of whom had been victims of racial and social inequality both in this county and worldwide. And as I implied, it was immediate and "by default".

And no one has to respect or admire the man to admit that.
Yet, every American should be as proud of that as they are the American flag. Because that is what the flag represents. Of, by, and for the people with certain God given inalienable rights..and equal opportunity for everyone.

Heck, even I could have been President..

It nothing to do with any other president nor even OBama the man or his policies