Fired 377,000 federal workers beginning in 1993 and ending in 2000. All everyone remembers about Bill is Monica's dress.
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Fired 377,000 federal workers beginning in 1993 and ending in 2000. All everyone remembers about Bill is Monica's dress.
What does that have to do with the price of eggs in America?
Well there are lots of people that currently have a government job who are fussing and whining about their uncertainty about their future or they no longer have a job and they are seeking pity, and they and the press act like this is a first time event and it is all (orange man's) fault.
The info just showed that it was not a first time event.
Folks rail against Clinton, but the budget was balanced during his admin, even ran surplus
There is no comparison in the Clinton buyouts and what DOGE is doing now. The article you shared a few weeks ago even proved that there is comparison
First and foremost, the Clinton buyouts were strategic. They incentivized retirement of experienced employees of high grades allowing positions to be filled by younger people who would make less money in the short term
Clinton worked with Congress and provided eligible retirees a bonus $35,000 gross to retire
Under Trump DOGE is firing people left and right. In part because of the three evil words of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (oh my)
Young probationary employees who cost the least are being fired in droves to cull the herd.
Staff researching the diversity of plants at usda were caught in the chainsaw massacre
The fork in the road email is incredibly unprofessional and insulting in tone. No administration has treated federal employees across the board this bad.
Federal employees were being placed on administrative leave for taking a class in DEI
Grantees are having grant dollars that were awarded based on a competitive review terminated in the middle of their budget periods on a whim
There is no comparison to what is taking place now and whatever has taken place American history.
Grants are being labeled illegal after being awarded by programs both created and funded by Congress.
Unprecedented and historic. If you hate the administrative state this is your time.
As with coaching changes, be careful what you wish for.
So in other words. what Clinton did when president has nothing to do with price of eggs in America today? I hope that DOGE hasn't already fired the person that might have been to slowdown the spread bird flu, the real reason for the cost of eggs. I can find more to blame on the dear leader.
I like Ike. Thank you for your pointing
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And yes Clinton through a host of decisions and good Fortune saw a relatively strong economy during his tenure.
Well consider Bird flu outbreak started in 2024, BEFORE the Trump inauguration, sort of hard to blame him. In fact it started in March of 2024, 8 months prior to Trump election. Cost of eggs in 2023 was $2.51 and in 2024 it went to $4.15. That was under the Biden administration. Of course the real start of the price increas occurred between 2021 and 2022 when prices went from $1.79 to $4.25
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...united-states/
Clearly the Biden administration did NOTHING to curb the spread. They should have mandated chicken masks and "flock" distancing
As for firing people left and right, not the case. He offered a system wide retirement. He is getting rid of those who don't support his legal and rightfully elected agenda, something he failed to do last term when he had generals who promised to inform our advisories if we were going to attack, an FBI that literally authorized wire taps on his political campaign and actively manipulated the laws against him. I literally watch first hand the attempts within the DOJ to indict, prosecute and attempt to imprison him......to the point where those who felt the actions of the dept were egregious but were afraid to speak out. You have bitched about him wanting people who are loyal to him over the constitution. I say BS. He wants loyalty to his CONSTITUTIONALLY ENACTED AGENDA. Bureaucrats who believe they can ignore their bosses orders should be fired. Who in the private sector would accept the **** that the gov't bureaucracy pulled? For some reason government employees feel they are invincible and unreplacable. Well, welcome to the real world.
edited to add: I don't mean to sound like a jerk (although admittedly it does). Just tired of gov't employees complaining because they are being treated like everybody else. Imagine a private employee complaining because they actually have to go to work, rather than sitting at home in your PJ's, taking 2 hrs lunches, etc.... Does every Gov't employee do that? Nope but plenty did. Howver do that as a employee of any private company and you're fired.
As for the cuts, citizens are sick and tired of seeing their tax dollars wasted by a congress to line their and their allies pockets, used to further political agenda. You gripe about allocated money by congress being retracted. Where were your tears when Brandon cancelled the Keystone pipeline on day one, actually hour one, of his presidency, resulting in thousands of workers losing their jobs? Where were you when the funding for a border wall was reallocate by Brandon, and the materials auctioned off at pennies on the dollar? We are tired of seeing money wasted on things that have no benefit to those who are paying. I've long said the deficit issue is that we are not getting enough taxes, ie the rich not paying their fair share, but is a spending issue. Social Security to dead people, gender equity programs, money to the Clinton foundation and Planned Parenthood, NPR (aka Democratic Free Radio---because we don't have enough political driven programming), etc.... Finally a President who isn't giving lip service to a spending issue to get elected then doing nothing. Now we have one who actually does something about it.
But you got a turse unprofessional letter that hurt your feelings. Wow, I never got a letter that hurt my feelings from my employer in the last 35 years (DWS).
Because he worked with a GOP led congress, and the GOP congress worked with him. That is how gov't is suppose to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof
Anyone remember when Sleepy shut down the Keystone Pipeline, which was a private enterprise with over 10,000 workers that worked for a private contractor that lost their jobs over night?
See aboveQuote:
Originally Posted by dan_bgblue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
I don't like or agree with everything Trump is doing. I didn't like executive orders under Biden, and don't like them now. EOs are for emergencies and when congress is at an impass. The reason being they are not binding. USAID was created by EO, thus it can be shut with same mechanism. Same with border security, or drilling permits, etc.... Don't like the President threatening states to withhold funds for not enforcing federal law. That is what courts are for. I'm not a fan of sending everybody a $5000 check due to the findings of waste. Liberals advocate only sending to low income, aka the people who don't pay federal income taxes! Take the savings to pay down the debt! But sending a check is gonna get votes. I hate "Big Beautiful Bills" aka Omnibus bills because they are packed with spending like DOGE is finding. Congress people slips their pet projects in to get their vote, and nobody says a word because nobody reads the 1000 plus pages. Trump wants the big budget bill, and guarantee it will have oodles of un-needed spending that will end up in the pockets of politicians because that is how Washington works
Maybe that's the key, 'worked with' rather than 'dictate to', huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
Thanks Doc. I apologize for overlooking that in your previous post. Maybe saying it twice attaches more importance to it. :4chsmu1:Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
Federal employees within the executive branch work FOR the president. They work at the pleasure of the President. Congress does not due to three branches that are equal. Thus Congress and the President work WITH each other. It's why Trump can't fire Schumer, Schiff, McConnell or AOC.Quote:
Originally Posted by IkeCat
How government is not supposed to work is the President sets an agenda, and the people under him decide if they want follow it. Nope, within the branch it is supposed to be the boss sets what he wants done, and if as an underling you opt to do something different, you are fired..... just like in the private sector
No, it emphasizes the hypocrisy.Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_bgblue
Yes, you are right.
Thanks Doc appreciate your posts and views.
One statement I will make is that it blows my mind how some can support the previous administration and in whole the democratic agenda that in many ways is destroying America for the future generations.
As Obama said when he, among other things, rammed Obamacare down the nation's throat, "elections have consequences".Quote:
Originally Posted by IkeCat
I don't like Trump, but the notion that he's somehow undemocratic, which clearly implies Biden and/or Obama were democratic, is utter nonsense, a media construct that is a complete lie.
No one has been less democratic than the Biden administration, which had a President who was mentally incompetent, an administration run by people who were not elected, and which tried to hang onto power by replacing him with another person who never got a vote for POTUS, and which legally stretched every bounds of the executive office.
Obama's administration prosecuted more federal employees for whistle blowing than any administration in history. Hardly open and democratic. That is not even the worst of their offenses.
Trump is an ass, and a bully, and acts like a 6 year old, but his purging the agencies that have become completely political is no more extreme than the original politicalization of those agencies.
Just don't be hypocritical is my standard. If Biden's and Obama's actions were somehow acceptable, then so are Trumps. If Trumps are not, than neither were theirs.
As a Libertarian however, Trump is closer to being open and honest about government than anything we have seen in a long time. Being against DOGE b/c they are exposing the vast waste of our system? I can't say I get that.
I have a long explanation of bureaucracy and my thoughts on it, which I don't have time for right now, but suffice to say that lots of bad things happen in the name of doing good, and that sums up government bureaucracy extremely well. Mostly good people, with noble intentions, who cause a lot of ill and harm.
America was built on the decentralization of power, b/c power corrupts. Washington is deeply corrupt b/c it centralizes power, and there is no way to change that basic equation. If power centralizes it will become corrupt. Period. the Founders knew this, thus the Federalist and convoluted system we have in this country.
Trump is "anti-democratic" for wanting to eliminate an unelected bureaucracy that thinks it can pursue it's goals regardless of the will of The People in elections? Is there anything that is less democratic than un-elected, un-fireable, untouchable federal employees who think they can wait out the swings of elections and pursue the goals THEY alone think are the right goals for this nation?
the very notion of an entrenched bureaucracy that thinks it knows best is antithetical to the very fabric and purpose of this nations' founding, which was to vest power in the individual and remove it from the State. it's why we aren't part of England or the Commonwealth.
that does not mean that there aren't mostly good people in those positions, but the very existence of a vast bureaucracy means it will act at a macro level in a way that is against the nature of individual liberty, even if the individuals who work there agree with the principle. It's how bureacracy works.
Trump is an ass, but the bureaucracy of this country is completely out of control, and I deal with it every day. Hell fire, I have to now file with FINCEN for every LLC I have to prove I'm not a foreign operative, as does every other entity in the entire US. A giant national database, one among many btw, that takes more and more time and money.
I spend time EVERY DAY serving some bureaucratic government purpose, and paying taxes to support things that have a large amount of waste. Guess what? Many Americans are sick of it, even if the original goals are noble. The end result is not.
Ask people in North Carolina how well the bureaucracy of FEMA is working for them, or any small business owner, or anyone who had their assets seized by the FBI for civil forfeiture with no cause, etc.and so on ad infinitum.
This nation was not meant to run with spending bills 3 foot high that no on in Congress even knows what is in them. It was not. It is contrary to liberty.
Subtle methods and rational methods have done nothing to stem the tide. No wonder voters are willing to go with Trump and taking a flame thrower to the kudzu, even if it kills some of the good plants. No wonder at all.
CitizenBBN are you trying to set yourself up for an elected position? It seems you hit every situation from every perception and still left room plausible deniability. Taking resumes yet because I think you're going to win big time and I want in on the ground floor. :happy0001:
DOGE isn’t exposing waste fraud and abuse.
They have unilaterally cut programs that were legally created by Congress and appropriated by Congress
DOGE doesn’t understand the improper payment laws that require levels of due process. Fraud is a legal term that requires proof of intent.
Saying programs are illegal or are demonstrating waste and abuse based on a new administration broad interpretation of DEI efforts is illegal.
Restructuring of the executive branch is within the executive’s wheelhouse
However, getting rid of the inspector
Generals when you start the purge also sends the message that you don’t want anyone in the way to remind anyone of what is legal or fair.
People were placed on admin leave because they took a class on DEI. They took a class offered during Trump’s first administration
Last night Trump fired the chair and the vice chair of the joint chiefs of staff
He can do it. But the totality of all his moves to shake up how the US operates creates a level of instability through the country and US domestic and foreign policy globally.
We agree he is a bully and ass. We we clearly don’t agree with the danger he poses.
The other piece that is frustrating is the understood argument from Trump’s defenders is to require those who stand against Trump must some how be blameless or downright perfect.
Somehow Trump’s enablers insist on the splinter being removed from our eyes before they will recognize the tree trunk in their own when it comes to blinding them about Trump’s evils.
Democrats aren’t perfect. Republicans aren’t perfect. But Donald Trump is the walking embodiment of the seven deadly sins. He is the poster child for the ugly American.
America first? His plan leads America to be alone and eventually last.
He is unchecked by republicans who have the majority in the legislative branch. Thanks to Mitch McConnell, Trump controls the Supreme Court and has enough loyalist judges who bend the knee, there is little to check his power in the judicial branch.
Impoundment and the unitary executive theory are inherently Un-American. That is what we are seeing. Trump has also given control of decision making to how agencies are being dismantled by a man in Elon Musk that is not eligible to be president; has not been elected to office; nor has been confirmed by the senate. Elon musk shouldn’t have more powerful over Treasury than the treasury secretary.
And if you don’t want me to make comparisons to 1933 for the love of God
Don’t salute Trump like a nazi.
One of the most important figures in the 20th century was Winston Churchill. He saw Hitler for who and what he was. Churchill wasn’t perfect. Not as a man or a politician. But he saved western civilization and democracy for the world.
Churchill knew what was right. He didn’t have to be perfect to stand up to hitler.
One month in Trump is reshaping our government and dangerously reshaping how Congress and the courts interact with a democratically elected president who aspires to rewrite the Constitution as a despot
Many here will be ok with that. Whether it is a love of Trump, an anger or hate for one’s fellow Americans or just the comfort they take in relying on a strong man, many will embrace this new order.
I recall Obama ran on Fundamentally Transforming the Country which in many ways he did. Most of them I wasn't a fan of as they led to exteme division within the country. Many were outsides the bounds of the constitution in my opinion. But as he stated "elections have consequences" so I lived with those. Biden only expanded those efforts, actions and consequences (or I should say those UNELECTED individuals who propped up the President including his wife and crack smoking kid.... somebody who would never clear even the most basic security clearance). Again, one only needs to look at the funding for a wall that congress approved and allocated that he dismantled on day one... or the repeated college debt playoffs that the SCOTUS ruled illegal yet he simply circumventing the order.
What bothers me is the hypocrisy. Democrats do things then cry when the right does the same.
While I think some of the work of DoGE is reaching the bounds of too far, you need to take off the political filter that you view things and realize there is waste and fraud being exposed. DoGE is identifying what it see as frivolous, waste and fraud. What Trump does with that information is where the rubber meets the road, especially as it relates to spending that goes outside its congressional appropriation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKHistory
Is there waste fraud and abuse? Certainly.
However, fraud does does require proof of intent. It is a legal term and DOGE staff are not qualified to determine fraud.
The people working in DOGE are computer guys. They are not accountants. They are not experts in program laws, federal acquisition regulations (FAR) or Title 2 of the code of federal regulations. (CFR) federal financial assistance.
They are not well versed in OMB Circular A-123 or its Appendix C that outline how to assess improper payments.
Are any of you?
Saying a program you don’t like or agree with is illegal or not a good use of tax payer dollars is not the same as waste or abuse or fraud.
If Congress created a program and appropriates funds for it, that isn’t a waste or abuse of tax payer dollars. It might be stupid by a reasonable person. You might not agree with it. But if the expense is accounted for and documented, it isn’t waste or abuse.
In some cases we have programs that are intended to support low income communities, people in need and if there is any connection to DEI then DOGE is cancelling programs that are in the middle of their budgets.
That’s a true waste of money because the objectives of the grants and contracts can not be met and we can’t see for sure if the funds have been used for any good.
Security for Trump to go play off might be considered a waste of time of valuable resources. I don’t golf. Most of the costs go towards paying Trump’s own facilities for use of the courts and space for the secret service. But it is an allowable expenditure.
I might say don’t golf. Save money for the country. But that is just me. It is allowed.
Let’s look at the master death file.
Based on the improper payment laws, if I was a social security recipient and died tonight at 11:31 pm eastern time but social security administration deposited my check tomorrow at 3:30 am, that’s an improper payment.
So while I am sure there are some examples of people falsifying records, the above example would be documented and recorded as an improper payment by SSA.
This is no ones fault. No as lazy as in fact if SSA held a payment because a recipient was in hospice but alive during g the direct deposit, it would be an improper payment too.
Even if the government didn’t make another payment to that person or even if the family returned that money within 30 days, it would still be an improper payment.
In some cases it might look like the government has spent more than it has. Sometime the issue isn’t that a grantee misused funds but may have incorrectly reported on how they have spent funds. For subgrants or subtracts we have states reporting data in a old system that if inputted the wrong way could read as if the grantee has spent
200% of its total award.
They didn’t misspend that money they didn’t report it correctly and they were struggling to correct the reporting error.
That isn’t good by any means. But it doesn’t mean tax dollars were wasted.
There are undoubtedly unallowable expenses by honest error and others by people aiming to misbehave.
They are not all immediately found. Some are And some are not.
By the way have any cheering on DOGE ever read the budget appropriations or taken a look at how spending breaks down?
2.3 million American taxpayers work for Uncle Sam. We over see billions of dollars.
Those dollars to a large extent fund research and services that benefit Americans
Those dollars in grants and contracts supplement the salaries of people all across the country. It is a great big system where tax dollars are funneled back to communities paying people who live and work in America
Eliminating those jobs and the dollars that get distributed across the country impact day to day life for many folks. People where you live.
That said even with that elongation, it doesn’t make a dent in the US s br or our biggest expenditures. Defense, social security and Medicare and debt reduction
Taking away programs that benefit Americans and employ citizens who pay taxes hurts people but it doesn’t do any tho g to reduce the budget deficit.
And tax cuts for the rich and corporations will not protect social security for you or your loved ones.
Are there things to be fixed of course. But Congress has the obligation to makes those decision.
It is a gross over reach for a president and a unelected and unconfirmed Bond villain to be making those decisions for the American people
DOGE isn’t qualified or legally charged with this duty
I work for the federal government. I work in the civil service. For those say that I work at the pleasure of the president don’t understand how the civil service operates or operated
I proudly worked with and for political pointes
The purpose of civil service of career staff was intended to support the activities of the government in a nonpartisan manner.
Experts in science, education, accounting, diplomacy, emergency preparedness, etc.
I have served under democrats and republicans. And until Trump I was a republican. My oath is to the Constitution not one man. Ever.
Everything can be made better. But this isn’t the way to do it. Too far left and too far right are both dangerous. Today the far right is the more clear and present danger to American liberty.
God save the United States.
Actually saying it is "waste" is absolutely valid, though I agree it is not "fraud" or "abuse" per se, but I can absolutely call it "waste". And the waste is MASSIVE. It has been for a very long time, and it isn't just one political party.
As for firing the chair of the Joint Chiefs, please do NOT stop there. The US military has become a joke, and my wife is a combat veteran, my dad died in the service, as well as my uncle, and I can't count all the others. it's an insult to the US military and veterans what has happened, and the only way to fix it is to fire a LOT of generals and butt kissing officers who are more interested in promotion than winning wars.
On that one I'll be fine to argue all day. Fortunately it's the one area where the POTUS has absolute authority without endless lawsuits, so hopefully at least that part Trump can fix.
If you think there aren't useless, political guys with lots of ribbons in their chest in the Pentagon, you're mistaken. It has become a bloated joke, and I'm great that a guy who actually had boots on the ground in combat is in charge. Way too many guys at the top of the US military who have lots of time at the War College and no time having the enemy shoot at them. Just that simple.
As for who is the bigger danger, the far left or the far right, it's the far left and it's not close. Not b/c I agree with Trump, but b/c he's a blunt instrument, a hammer. The Left is far more subtle, slowly chipping away at principles of free speech in ways where you wake up one day and suddenly you have Euro style laws where it's illegal to say what you think b/c it may offend someone.
No, the Left is far more dangerous, b/c they are far better at playing the long game. Trump you can see coming a mile away. The Left will slip the knife in liberty and you wont' know it until you feel it, and that is exactly what is happening.
Two trillion overspending. Continuing resolutions instead of passed and signed budgets. Congress and the bureaucracy has nothing to stand on. If the elected chief executive in whom all power over the executive is vested can't control the executive branch then our republic has failed.
If checks and balances are destroyed, our system of government has failed.
Our system of checks and balances has already failed. That is what DOGE is all aboutQuote:
Originally Posted by IkeCat
Addressing spending and debt is one thing. DOGE is unconstitutional and its leadership and staff are unqualified and to make cuts or decisionsQuote:
Originally Posted by MickintheHam
No Question Musk is unqualified these decisions and has no legal authority. And while Congress is unwilling to act on its own power, the executive is far exceeding its own authority in how it is freezing funds, ignoring due process of organizations who legally received federal
Funds.
And Musk in his position has a clear conflict of interest to be making decisions or even recommendations on gutting federal agencies when he himself is a contractor benefitting from taxpayer funds and is likely to benefit more from his insider position
DOGE AINT THE ANSWER
Clinton, Bush 2, Obama twice, Trump1, Biden, Trump 2 all campaigned on reining in the "deep state" and getting spending under control. None of them prior to Trump 2 tried doing anything even similar to DOGE, and nothing that was done by the first 7 had any effect on the run away spending, and the unfettered give away programs that did nothing to better the lives of the taxpayers. Is the DOGE way the only way or the right way to correct the long term spending maladies? I won't say it is the worker friendly way or the proper way proper way, but I will say it is the only way since the Gipper was in the chair that has even come close to rendering the promised results.
To call Trump or. Musk unqualified is beyond laughable. The taxpayer funded Deep State’s days are over. The Taxpayer funded war in Ukraine will soon be over.Quote:
Originally Posted by UKHistory