So legit question...you are the Governor of your state...what do you do?

The virus is spreading in your state. You see the statistics and the death rate. You know how contagious it is.

But, you also know the economy is being hurt. And businesses are going to close. And people are losing their jobs.

You are the Governor in your state. What do you do?

I'm continuing and probably strengthening the social distancing rules in place.

I understand that doing this will only slow and not stop the overwhelming of my state's hospitals and ICUs. I'm waiving Certificates of Need so hospitals can add all the beds they want to add for the foreseeable future with a view to revisiting it at some point in the (probably distant) future. I'm talking with the medical experts in my state about what they think we will need in terms of ICU beds and ventilators and screaming at everybody I can to get that. Then I'm making contingency plans for how I can get more.

I'm doing everything I can to encourage the feds to put together an interest-free, forgiveable loan program for small business owners and streamline the process for getting those approved as quickly as possible.

I'm doing everything I can to maximize the amount of paid leave and increased unemployment benefits and streamline the process for that, too.

I'm being as transparent with the public about where we are today, what the plan is and what the state government and experts are doing to work that plan. And I'm doing that every day for as long as this is a thing.

I'm activating the National Guard to assist with all that and any other contingency operations that arise.

I'm meeting regularly with community leaders and church leaders around the state to ensure they are reaching out to their constituencies and congregants to keep calm and keep the faith.

That's probably just the tip of the iceberg, but it's also a mountain of work to do.

I think that's a fabulous answer.

go on vacation. Hike the Appalachian trail (for those who get that joke).

This is a really tough question. I cannot disagree with BEvans reply from a specific point of view. He is right on with the current line of thought.

A couple of variables

The answer in 1 state (Montana) may be different than another (Florida) so to speak.

The Federal Stimulus effect. What will it do? Does it buy me as a Gov. some economic time?


If I go the opposite from BEvans and believe the virus cure is more harmful than the Economic cure I would do some things differently.

I agree 100% on is take on hospitals and CON waivers. That whole paragraph is in place even if I take the the Economic Cure path. In fact, I may close all private physician offices and "put those physicians and nurses on state payroll" to serve the increased bed usage in the hospitals and wards created to meet demand. I hope by April 15 we have increased ventilator supply AND have leveraged the modified bipap and cpaps with O2 to meet some of that demand is less extreme cases. I also hope the Chloroquine and Zpac combo provide some relief in symptons as early tests seem to indicate.

But after that, for the Economic Cure I put as many back to work as I can. If we are to believe the data from other countries, our true risk path is those over age 60 and those with comorbid health risks. I demand Quarantine that population for 12 weeks. simply put, I arrange food delivery to them and keep them isolated from the rest of the population. No Waivers. Reasses at 12 weeks..

On April 30 I end the home confinement of all others. I still encourage the social changes made but they go back to work. Statistically we know that the vast majority of that population will not require hospitalization based on the data I have seen out of the advanced western nations. The worry here is our age breakdown of severe effect may not be following what we are seeing in Europe. (31% of cases in us were over age 65, 45% of hospitalizationa and 53% of ICU admissions and 80% of deaths were in individuals over aged 65). At that date (Mar 20) only 508 patients had been hospitalized. I would love to see more recent numbers to inform this position better. Among 508 patients known to have been hospitalized, 9% were aged 85 years or older, 36% were aged 65-84 years, 17% were aged 55-64 years, 18% were 45-54 years, and 20% were aged 20-44 years. Those numbers are a concern for my plan.

But, the fiscal argument is compelling. St. Louis Fed Reserve Pres says GDP will be down AT LEAST 50%. Now saying unemployment tomorrow will exceed 4 Million. Most families have less than 1 months of cash on hand for ongoing expenses. $2400 per month unemployment for 4 months will be tough (have not heard, are they waiving the income tax burden on that??). Many may not have jobs to return to if we do not restart this economy soon.

so, April 1, I put those under 60 back to work.

Ok, shoot me now. I know it is coming.

By the way, the fiscal unknown is the situation in the rest of the world. We are very interdependent fiscally in today's world. Europe was not fiscally healthy before this event. the PIIGS were just trying to stabilize. What happens there is going to be interesting. Will Europe recover and how does that effect US Recovery from this. So another argument against my economic cure model is it may not matter because there may not be economic markets to sell to.

Honestly this is the time to take this crisis and fundamentally change our economic policies and learn from this mess. No time now to make a list, but Americans now see en masse how vulnerable we've become as a nation. They'll be receptive to a message that rebuilds our manufacturing and takes "our" pseudo "American corporations" by the short hairs and makes them commit to America or not. If not we'll find some companies that want to do business here and the others can pack their **** and move to China full time. I"m talking to you Apple, Google, and everyone else.

Let's call it "Patriotic Capitalism". Transfer our technology and intellect to China and other nations and you won't be doing any business here.

I know that's not on governors but goes to Virginia's thoughts. And no VaCat, I won't roast you. We have to find a way to have an economy to return to when this is over. And we could actually take advantage of the weakness of the rest of the world if we're smart about it, and restore our dominance.

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

Honestly this is the time to take this crisis and fundamentally change our economic policies and learn from this mess. No time now to make a list, but Americans now see en masse how vulnerable we've become as a nation. They'll be receptive to a message that rebuilds our manufacturing and takes "our" pseudo "American corporations" by the short hairs and makes them commit to America or not. If not we'll find some companies that want to do business here and the others can pack their **** and move to China full time. I"m talking to you Apple, Google, and everyone else.

Let's call it "Patriotic Capitalism". Transfer our technology and intellect to China and other nations and you won't be doing any business here.

I know that's not on governors but goes to Virginia's thoughts. And no VaCat, I won't roast you. We have to find a way to have an economy to return to when this is over. And we could actually take advantage of the weakness of the rest of the world if we're smart about it, and restore our dominance.

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Don’t forget the drug companies. We don’t need to produce our pharmaceutical products off shore.

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

go on vacation. Hike the Appalachian trail (for those who get that joke).

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I can be on the Appalachian Trail in about 5 minutes from where I live. Tomorrow is supposed to be a beautiful day, so come on down and we'll hike.......Uh.............you haven't tested positive for the Croney virus have you? :)

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Originally Posted by DanISSELisdaman

I can be on the Appalachian Trail in about 5 minutes from where I live. Tomorrow is supposed to be a beautiful day, so come on down and we'll hike.......Uh.............you haven't tested positive for the Croney virus have you? :)

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I'll joing you. I am only 20 minutes away! Bear Chase Brewery by the trail now offering carryout!

It is not necessarily a state issue. It is acommunity issue. As with the Federal govt, the governor needs to marshall the resources to ensure they are in place. But specific measures are the purview of mayors and county officials. Unless of course you live in NYC where the governor must take over.

One size does noqt fit all and hopefully that is a lesson learned from this crisis. No one in Monroeville Ala needs to be locked down. Everyone in Birmingham and Mobile does.

Hopefully, the second lesson of this crisis is the dispersal of the population. Hopefully, the millennials will learn the weaknesses of population density.

I tried to convince our cabinet to go to essential personnel and services the first of March. No one wanted to listen and we ended up with a case of Corona at work. I probably would have done the same thing as a governor.

Put up large for sale signs along with signs that say Adios at all 4 borders. Take enough money out of the state treasury to arrange a charter flight for me and my family to take us to Samoa.

According to that orange jackass who is abdicating his authority along with any moral leadership he ever had, governors better be appreciative if they want any type of Federal assistance.

Trump being Trump.

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Originally Posted by UKHistory

According to that orange jackass who is abdicating his authority along with any moral leadership he ever had, governors better be appreciative if they want any type of Federal assistance.

Trump being Trump.

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The team he has assembled is outstanding. Hard to imagine his predecessor would have a group this capable.

We have so few medical facilities in rural areas. Gotta postpone some people getting it. After easter? Gotta release the tourniquet slowly.

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Originally Posted by MickintheHam

The team he has assembled is outstanding. Hard to imagine his predecessor would have a group this capable.

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Many of these exact same people have worked for every President and administration. Its one of the reasons Fauci is so valuable. He has worked for every administration since Bush Sr.

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

Many of these exact same people have worked for every President and administration. Its one of the reasons Fauci is so valuable. He has worked for every administration since Bush Sr.

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It is also why you want capable, experienced Federal employees in place to provide continuity to respond to emergencies. Political hacks and blindLy, loyal yes men are fine campaigning. They are far less valuable to the American people if they try to govern.

57 cases in Bozeman. NO hospitalizations. (Knock on wood). Flattening the curve will NOT reduce the area under the curve. So planning for two years of these outbreaks as part of the “new normal” will require more ICU/PCU beds, ventilators etc. mostly tho, working on new rules such as mandatory testing any time a Montanan gets sick. Mandatory testing off the airplane. School changes. Social changes. Working more on “the new normal” until a safe inoculation is found. Not the one Will Smith comes up with.

...ask Andy

This is why 30 days matters so much. A lot of testing is coming out weekly now. We are weeks away from having at home tests. Those will completely change this entire thing.

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

This is why 30 days matters so much. A lot of testing is coming out weekly now. We are weeks away from having at home tests. Those will completely change this entire thing.

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You're right about testing. We need data.

We may disagree on how much we could have gotten ahead of this, as it seems the problem is a shortage of testing equipment and time to come up with alternative testing methods, though I agree we could have been standing on our heads to develop them at the first of the year, but there's no doubt testing is a key because it gives us the data we need to make good decisions.

If this new test can give results in 10-15 minutes and we can get enough of them then that's a game changer in terms of our response. No doubt about it.

I think even among the medical community there may have been some lack of urgency simply b/c the last big scare, SARS, kinda died out on its own. The predictions were dire then it basically went away. Gave everyone false comfort, certainly in the political community.

In fact the Obama admin was trying to reduce funding to CDC etc. just as Trump was. it's an easy place to cut where people don't lobby and scream as loud. That's not good, but that's what happens.

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

You're right about testing. We need data.

We may disagree on how much we could have gotten ahead of this.

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Yes, we do. I probably don't need to keep rehashing it as I've posted my POV. But, the President (and then Fox News/Hannity/Rush) downplaying this early cost us really badly in two ways:

1. When he was downplaying/lying about it, health professionals (I know this because I read them) were writing about the shortage we would have of testing, ventilators, masks, etc. Tons of articles were being written about it all the way back in January. I assure you that the medical community there was not a lack of urgency. If the admin had of showed the same urgency then that they are showing now, we would have many of them now.

2. And this is the one that really matters. TONS of people downplayed this just like he did (most because he did). And that downplaying was almost exclusively along party lines. Because of the extreme distrust of the media, etc a lot of our country simply didn't take this seriously early on (this was true on this board as well). And in some places, they still aren't. Unfortunately, this played a huge role in spreading the virus. And a lot of people are still unknowingly spreading it because they STILL are not taking this seriously enough.

Trump didn't cause this. Its not the Trump virus. He couldn't have prevented it. No President could have. But his early downplaying it early made it worse. How much is immeasurable but I definitely believe in those two areas above.
Will it hurt him down the road? I doubt it. Many of his decisions early and since have been good ones. Some very good ones.

But, he can't reverse course now. Moving forward, he needs to keep doing what he is doing now. Which I do "approve" of (I mean that in a polling sense). He needs to keep listening to health professionals and imploring Governors to clamp down. He needs to use the Defense Protection Act when needed as he has and he needs to continue to do everything possible to help hospitals get what they need. He has helped streamline FDA approvals and he stayed mostly bipartisan during the stimulus stuff which I think was very wise.
Again, I criticized him when he deserved it and have praised him when he deserves it as well.

Do I think he should stop the berating of reporters? Yes.
Do I think some of his tweets are ridiculous? Yes.
Do I think him tweeting yesterday about his press conference tv ratings tells me everything I always knew about the man? Yes.
Do I think he is petulant and ornery during press conferences and toward some governors? Yes.

Since his early mistakes, has he mostly made good decisions with this coronavirus? Yes. And that matters most.

Since I’m not a lawyer, I’d like to ask those here that are a question.
A boiling question here in local media is state roadblocks into Florida. If the state deems to not allow you into the state for coronavirus suspicion, is it a violation of the 1st amendment and possibly 4th amendment rights?

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

Yes, we do. I probably don't need to keep rehashing it as I've posted my POV.

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Many times, lol. As have I. :)

The lack of urgency goes back decades, as a Fox article today points out. Cutting or otherwise not funding these kinds of things is a given with politicians. There are no votes in doing it, and they can put that money into pork that gets votes.

De Blasio sure didn't downplay it b/c of Trump. Those saying Trump was racist for the early restrictions were downplaying it not bc of Trump.

Trump downplayed it, but I disagree he caused downplaying of it. Had he played it up then yes that would have had an impact, but I think downplaying it is a general thing, and we've seen that even now in some states as we've both agreed.

We could have gotten ahead of it more sure, I agree there, but how much I may question as I'm not sure how much we could have actually stockpiled in 30 or so days. Definitely masks and such, but probably not much in the way of testing.

Most of the testing results we're seeing is b/c we got the FDA out of the way. It's a lot to ask a POTUS, any POTUS, to tell the FDA to sideline their SOP for something the public doesn't see as a threat.

I'll find that GQ article that goes through the bureaucracy faced in Jan/Feb over developing tests. The POTUS would have had to be impressive indeed to go that far that early. I don't think that's reasonable to expect.

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Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof

Since I’m not a lawyer, I’d like to ask those here that are a question.
A boiling question here in local media is state roadblocks into Florida. If the state deems to not allow you into the state for coronavirus suspicion, is it a violation of the 1st amendment and possibly 4th amendment rights?

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I was wondering the same thing. I have the same question for travel as well as other civil liberties. The stay at home orders, not practicing religion, etc. It seems most governors have made suggestions regarding what is allowed but have not used the law to enforce. There are multiple mega churches staying open. I think it is stupid for them to continue to hold services, but is it even possibly a violation that would stand up in court?

Here is an example of the government trying to stop the freedom to assemble:

Arrest warrant issued for Tampa megachurch pastor who led packed services despite safer-at-home orders

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof

Since I’m not a lawyer, I’d like to ask those here that are a question.
A boiling question here in local media is state roadblocks into Florida. If the state deems to not allow you into the state for coronavirus suspicion, is it a violation of the 1st amendment and possibly 4th amendment rights?

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Not a lawyer, but I am a Star Trek junkie, so:

Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

Most of the testing results we're seeing is b/c we got the FDA out of the way. It's a lot to ask a POTUS, any POTUS, to tell the FDA to sideline their SOP for something the public doesn't see as a threat.

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I agree. I have more to say on that but will post it in another thread.

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Originally Posted by UKHistory

It is also why you want capable, experienced Federal employees in place to provide continuity to respond to emergencies. Political hacks and blindLy, loyal yes men are fine campaigning. They are far less valuable to the American people if they try to govern.

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I want capable Federal Employees. Unfortunately, they seem to be in short supply. Streamline government to where the best shine through.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

Many of these exact same people have worked for every President and administration. Its one of the reasons Fauci is so valuable. He has worked for every administration since Bush Sr.

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Yes, Fauci and some others have. But you have the people the President put in place coordinating and managing the efforts with the sense of urgency required. The scope of the problem is not simply an issue of the virus. It affects every aspect of society. It takes people who can get things done who can make decisions on the economy, military and deployment of resources. Someone has to draw together all of the Departments, the business community and local governments. It requires the highest quality managerial talent, real problem solvers. That is how this administration has differentiated itself. This is being managed very much as one would a large scale construction project, identifying all of the required tasks and finding ways to manage them simultaneously. But, the key is finding the talent to drive the timeline. The people running this project know how to work 18 to 20 hour days..

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

I agree. I have more to say on that but will post it in another thread.

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Good GQ article on the subject. It starts of criticizing Trump (with little real supporting evidence), then goes on to show that the delay was bureaucratic from the FDA's procedures.

At one point they wouldn't consider an application for an emergency authorization b/c he had submitted online but he hadn't submitted hardcopies by mail.

Clearly they didn't see it as a threat either, not at that level.

https://www.gq.com/story/inside-amer...=pocket-newtab

Even the WHO test thing it's not clear that was "Trump" or if it was people in the bureaucracy saying the CDC needed to do it. Right now we don't know if he ignored advice from people or in fact was listening to their advice. I can easily see people at the FDA or CDC thinking they didn't trust a WHO test,and frankly I can't say I would disagree with them given the state of the UN's bias.

But it is clear that until this became such a threat it was being processed using procedures that are simply not time critical. Thus the FDA only approving the CDC for testing, etc.

Most of this delay seems to have not come from the White House as much as from the various agencies who were following procedures that work well in normal times but were far too cumbersome and even far too safety focused for a real crisis.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

Most of this delay seems to have not come from the White House as much as from the various agencies who were following procedures that work well in normal times but were far too cumbersome and even far too safety focused for a real crisis.

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This is just patently untrue. I will fully admit Trump is not the only "failure". There is plenty of blame to go around. The GQ article you linked speaks to that as well as the newest one in The Atlantic (please note: both blame Trump almost as a "Duh").

As we have seen, when the President wants to cut through beaurocratic nonsense he can (as he since has). But when he isn't taking it seriously (as he clearly wasn't) then none of that is going to happen.
Not just that, but an entire book was written on his colossal failure and lack of organization in many different areas of government in his first 2 years in office (The Fifth Risk).

Here are several articles outlining just how Trump failed early on in this crisis and why it put us behind (I have dozens more of these I could send but is there a point? Its blatantly obvious he didn't take this as serious as he should. If someone can't see or admit that all the articles in the world won't change their opinion):

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ealth-disaster

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...demic-response

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...council-149285

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/25...tory-covid-19/

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...e-failure.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...y-over/607969/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/whi...ponse-n1158746

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-was...em-11584552147

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/o...ronavirus.html

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/...e-coronavirus/

https://www.theamericanconservative....ntrol-failure/


Again, at this point, I'm not sure why this debate even matters. It likely will not hurt him politically in November and he has done a much better job since. As I said, plenty of others have failed as well and he isn't the reason this virus exists.
I would grade his response early on as a D- (and only not an F because of the Chinese travel ban which no doubt bought some time).
And since I would grade his response as a B (with plenty of time to move up or not).

What matters in all of this are lives. When he was talking about the Easter thing it scared me to death because it was obvious others were in his ear (as well as his own voice). I am so glad he listened to the Doctors.

Wow,lol

Did I type "took it seriously"? No I didn't. i have said he, nor many others, took it too seriously at that point.

My point is that, at a day to day level where doctors were trying to respond, they weren't held up by some kind of policy coming from the White House but by basic bureaucracy.

No doubt if Trump somehow saw this coming back in December and started everything we've started we'd have saved lives. It's also completely true that no POTUS would ever do such a thing at that point.

So we can debate weeks in February, etc., but the day to day roadblocks we first encountered in developing and approving tests, etc. came from knowledgeable federal agencies that ALSO clearly didn't see it as this kind of threat either.

So if the FDA isn't in a panic, and wasn't even after people were telling them to be, why expect the POTUS to be in one?

His "delays" are exactly the delays we expect to see in these situations. That's not good, but it's not specific to individual people.

We saw far worse ones in New York with De Blasio and others, we've seen them in Florida, etc. This level of response is unprecedented in the lives of most Americans, going to take some time for that to sink in to everyone. Even leaders.

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

This level of response is unprecedented in the lives of most Americans, going to take some time for that to sink in to everyone. Even leaders.

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Fair enough. Btw, I typed that quickly and it might have come across stronger than I meant. Ha. I came back on to edit the first line but it was too late.

Article on Germany's early and often testing. The secret per their people?

A free market. They don't have a FDA that has to approve every test so private companies were rolling them straight to market. Their 16 state governments each have their own oversight, there's no central CDC or FDA that does more than recommend.

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/25/82059...=pocket-newtab

"We have a culture here in Germany that is actually not supporting a centralized diagnostic system," said Drosten, "so Germany does not have a public health laboratory that would restrict other labs from doing the tests. So we had an open market from the beginning."

In other words, Germany's equivalent to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention — the Robert Koch Institute — makes recommendations but does not call the shots on testing for the entire country. Germany's 16 federal states make their own decisions on coronavirus testing because each of them is responsible for their own health care systems.

When Drosten's university medical center developed what became the test recommended by the World Health Organization, they rolled these tests out to their colleagues throughout Germany in January.

"And they of course rolled this out to labs they know in the periphery and to hospital labs in the area where they are situated," Drosten said. "This created a situation where, let's say, by the beginning or middle of February, testing was already in place, broadly."

Drosten said that has meant quicker, earlier and more widespread testing for COVID-19 in Germany than in other countries.

So here we are the nation of "Free markets" and every single lab, every single test, every single everything, has to be approved by the bureaucracy.

In fact the FDA has shut down the "in home" tests, done by companies that test for STDs all the time, b/c they may not be accurate enough. OK, fair enough, but clearly in Germany the medical community got these things out to those labs without all of those rules and got better results.

Even a test with some inaccuracy may be better than no tests at all.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-idUSKBN21B3K9

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Originally Posted by dan_bgblue

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-idUSKBN21B3K9

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This is nothing like anything Obama faced, or any other President since WWI.

Which in part explains the reluctance of many in the world to move quickly to these extreme measures. We haven't done this in anyone's lifetime.

[QUOTE=VirginiaCat;630378]I'll joing you. I am only 20 minutes away! Bear Chase Brewery by the trail now offering carryout![/QUOT


Good! We need 7 more to join us. You can gather in groups of 10 or less without any fear of getting the crony virus can't you? ;)