http://www.usatoday.com/media/cinema...-florida-club/
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just awful. I'm glad in some ways I don't play the club circuit anymore. The apprehension was there even ten or fifteen years ago that things like this were more and more likely to happen.
I'm a bit surprised (but pleased) it's not a more frequent occurrence.
Reporting the shooter is Islamic and may have had the markings of a terrorist act.
50 dead. At least.
It's sounding like this guy was already known to Homeland Security and/or the FBI. Early reports are that he was licensed somehow as a security guard as well, which begs some real questions how he can be licensed in such a way and also suspected of ISIS ties.
There are also reports of a possible foiled attack on a gay pride parade in California. It's well known ISIS despises things like homosexuality, so it could be the case. They were calling for attacks during this time period.
Truly horrible, surreal levels of horrible.
And Obama mentions that it's a tragedy. Gun violence and gun control, but can't seem to mention that he is Muslim or has radical Islamic ties.....smh
No surprise he'd be the first to politicize a terror attack and try once again to misdirect it into a question of domestic policy.
FWIW this guy had what they call a "G License", which means he was a state licensed armed security guard. The truth is he'd have had access to firearms with significant firepower simply as a function of his clearance. Even if we banned all "assault rifles" and only allowed them into the hands of those with clearance, he'd have found a way.
Of course Obama never mentions ISIS or his radical ties or his father's videos supporting the Taliban in Afghanistan in some border dispute with Pakistan, etc.
Also no mention of how gays were targeted b/c under Sharia law and in the view of ISIS they are subhumans who should be killed without hesitation.
Pitiful. ISIS is recruiting the lunatic fringe of our nation via our own internet and social media companies and using them to attack us at home, and our President's solution is to debate high capacity magazines.
my wife will be working on this case. Coincidentally, we were driving thru Orlando as this was happening.
Shooter was from Port St Lucie which is the town just next door to me.
As for Obama's quickness to politicize this, not a shock but he isn't the only one. I'm surprise I haven't seen the required "gun free zone" post yet. But what makes Obama's approach so bothersome is that he picks and chooses. He will make it about guns etc... and ignore the real heart of this one which appears to be the radical religious aspect of it
no doubt. I'm sure the FBI investigates a number of people they then don't do anything about,but I'll be very curious to see what he did that got him on their radar in the first place.
I don't know the details of the "G license", but it takes 68 hours of training in firearms and the law and such, and I can't imagine it doesn't come with a background check which he apparently passed just fine.
And Kudos to Bernie for being clueless
Yes, Bernie because this is about guns and automatic weapons rather than a radical islamic jihadist killing gays.Quote:
"We should not be selling automatic weapons which are designed to kill people, We have got to do everything that we can on top of that to make sure that guns do not fall into the hands of people who should not have them, criminals, people who are mentally ill. So that struggles continues."
Saw a few interviews today of people close to some that were injured or killed, and they, everyone of them, said everyone needed to realize that this was not an act of terrorism, but instead should be viewed as a hate crime against gays.
But republicans portray themselves as intolerant of anything that is counter to what they believe, thanks to the "evangelicals". Generally speaking, when it comes to oppression, is there any group worse than the Islamic religion? I mean in some ways these guys are stuck in the stone age
That makes no sense. A hate crime IS an act of terrorism.
Only in the Obama world where definitions are changed for political reasons does killing people based on a belief not fall into the realm of terrorism.
The U.S. Code of Federal Regulations defines terrorism as "the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives"
B/c they are utterly self absorbed in their politics.
In a way it is a hate crime, it just so happens that radical Islamists hate gays among a whole lot of other groups.
the idea of a "hate crime" is the dumbest thing ever. Every murder is a hate crime. Some are based on race or sexual orientation, but all are hate.
This was an act of terror targeting gays b/c they are seen as subhuman and evil by ISIS and make a nice, soft, high profile target for them in the US and elsewhere. It's probably seen as insulting to them that Gay Pride month is the same as Ramadan.
They make the craziest evangelicals (like the anti-gay camp folks) look like hippies.
IMO they are precisely stuck in the stone age, or specifically the pre-Renaissance period of the West. They are feudal in their thinking, living in the world of the Inquisition and the Crusades at best.
while not as radical, even movements here in the US to impose Sharia law in certain enclaves is an outrage IMO, not b/c it is different but b/c Sharia law violates the basic principles of the US belief system and Constitution.
Christians who believe being gay is a sin do not call for those gay people to be imprisoned for being gay, or be stoned or otherwise punished. They simply believe it is a sin. They may not want their families exposed to it, but I haven't seen calls for them to be persecuted for it, simply not have those things imposed on them. Sharia and certainly ISIS absolutely calls for gay people to be punished, usually horrible ways.
ISIS and those who follow that version of Sharia are simply living in a world the rest of the planet starting coming out of nearly 1,000 years ago. They want to turn back the clock, under pain of death.
Some perspective on the early morning Islamic terror attack: a list of countries where established religion in the civil government leads to the death penalty for homosexuality. I'm not seeing but one religion implicated. The Excuser-in-Chief has done everything he can to avoid the obvious, Muslim countries kill gays, muslim terrorists kill gays, muslim extremist groups like ISIS kill gays. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...shed-by-death/
A white male was also arrested today with multiple weapons and explosives heading to the LA Gay Pride parade, with the intent to harm the parade. Thankfully, that gentleman was arrested before he did anything or today could have been twice as bad.
Apparently he was a follower of a radical cleric in the US who is a former marine who became a radical Islamic leader here in the US. He was jailed on tax fraud and weapons charges w a 10 year sentence, judge let him out in 4 and didn't tack on extra years for terror related activities.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/12...l?intcmp=hpbt1
Prosecutors warned this guy would recruit people to commit radical acts, judge let him out anyway for lack of evidence.
Maybe this is why the shooter was on the FBI's radar.
I am sure his claims of innocence on all those terror conspiracy issues and recruiting/radicalizing others are true. I mean a judge believed him.:Christz_pillepalle:
We were actually driving thru Orlando last PM as it was happening. We were on our way home from Arizona, on a 35 hour non stop death death drive. Was listening to Fox Radio when they came on about a shooting in Orlando but I figured it was a replay of an earlier announcement.
Now a couple points. While the left will likely make this a "gun issue", its not. He obtained the guns legally, had a background check, etc.... Second, as best can be told, he isn't a psycho so any type of psychological evaluation wasn't going to pick him up. Third, the candidate should tread lightly to avoid making themselves look like opportunist (esp Trump who has a tendency to stick his foot into his mouth). I hope the left continues to follow the course they are because they will come out looking foolish on this.
Doc, yes Trump needs to make some calls to go after ISIS, and then get out of the way and let the other side dig their own hole.
That's trump's biggest weakness, he doesn't know when to let someone shoot themselves in the foot without him getting near it.
I will note that this guy apparently beat his first wife. She got out and got divorced, but had she reported the abuse it's possible he would have been unable to buy guns legally. But if anything it highlights the challenges of just running the system we have now properly, not the need for a new one.
I'm not privy to the deep secrets of NICS, but afaik being on the watch list isn't a known legal reason for denial. It may be in the NICS database, but if it is it's a secret, and the law hasn't been changed to make it that way. The reasons for denial are specified in the Gun Control Act of 1968 as amended, and would need an act of Congress presumably to change the criteria.
BTW, i wholeheartedly support such a change.
1) I hold both "D" and "G" licenses here in Florida, in addition to my law enforcement/corrections certifications. In addition to my Florida concealed carry permit. I don't have to go through all of the requirements for the D or G or the CCP outside of my paying the necessary fees and submitting to fingerprinting due to my military training and my law enforcement training. Everything else is waived due to previous training and background checks conducted on me.
2) I have a good friend who was on scene at the house in Port St. Lucie. I can't divulge what I was told, but it's not good.
3) The federal government is not and will not protect us against this terrorism. And I don't care what the FBI or DHS says, all they're going to do is follow orders, which, right now, lessens the lives of all Americans everywhere because the U. S. government refuses to protect t us.
Face it boys & girls...........we're on our own as far as protecting ourselves and our families. Our government just refuses to do its duty as prescribed by the Constitution.
You support banning people on the Terrorist Watch list from owning guns or am I misunderstanding you? This list which has been almost as problematic as the No-Fly List (we all know the problems here), Sexual Predator Lists (there is no way that someone who took a piss in the bushes deserves the same treatment as someone that raped a kid), and others? Just recently I read an article about a family trying to get their three year old removed from the Terrorist Watch List. Considering, this administration, and the lasts, proclivity to label people that disagree with the government as terrorists I just can't agree with the idea of using this faulty list as a reason to bar someone from a fundamental right.
The guy worked for the Geo Group, which has domestic and international security contracts in a lot of places. To get those D & G licenses he had to pass some kind of background check. And he was a native born American anyway, not foreign born as first reported. But to get that job and qualify for any clearances he would have had to go through some trainings that are federally, state and company mandated. So of course he was qualified to own and buy any commercially available firearms.
As far as being on or not being on any watch lists, in that regard, he was not currently on any list, but possibly had been prior. Cause for concern, absolutely. But if he wasn't deemed a threat, then life goes on. Of course, as I stated before, and have said many times here, the U.S. government is not concerned with OUR SAFETY AS AMERICANS so much as they are with protecting guys like this. Under this current administration our safety means nothing, while we bring in thousands and thousands of unvetted people from the Middle East under the guise of them supposedly seeking refuge from terrorists.
But hey, what do we know? We're just the Americans that this Islamists jihadi trash wants to kill while our own government looks the other way.
yes the list is flawed and my choice would be to create a separate list that is maintained with an actual gatekeeper in the judicial system and those people on that list are deemed too high risk to purchase firearms.
is it 100% fair in that sense? No, but the current preclusion based on domestic violence also has a lot of problems with it, but we've decided that it's better to deal with those flaws than to allow people who may be domestic abusers direct purchase access to firearms.
Now, do I think it will make much difference? ONLY if ATF/FBI gets their act together and uses the instant background check system properly. Specifically, when someone who is on that list goes to try to get a firearm that should set off a red siren somewhere and they need to go and directly investigate that person. Right now when felons try to buy a gun and get flagged by NICS there is no action taken to pursue that person, despite the fact that they almost assuredly just committed another felony by lying on the 4473 form.
In my view a person would be adjudicated not of a crime but of "ties to a terror organization" or some such, and if so adjudicated yes they are on the list and are restricted in several ways. yes that's a dangerous path to walk, but the only two alternatives are to a) live with this kind of ongoing terrorism in the US as there are no doubt tens of thousands of radicalized people living in the country, or b) make such associations a full blown crime and start trampling a whole lot more of the Bill of Rights.
We had the same basic problem with the 1950s Communist movement, but the difference was that while being a Communist might be seen as subversive, they weren't murdering people in cold blood. There's no basis to take away someone's Constitutional rights b/c they are a Communist, but I'm starting to seriously question it for those tied to this radical movement.
This guy apparently spewed this hate filled crap for a while, people knew about it, he would have already been disqualified had his first wife reported her abuse, his dad apparently thinks he's the rightful ruler of Afghanistan. Maybe we need to start looking at what we allow someone with that world view to do.
I agree it's disturbing, but we have no vehicle for deporting US born citizens with these proclivities either, and that's exactly what we'd do if they were foreign nationals.
Trump is wrong for wanting to ban all Muslims, but he's not wrong to highlight the fact that we have a real threat here and one that is not easily identified and thus will slip through the cracks in our current system with relative impunity.
FWIW, you are a restricted person for gun purchases even if you have a restraining order against you. At one time those were tough to get, but now judges hand them out with great regularity and without much due process. A woman can make that claim and get a restraining order on just about anyone, and boom your guns are gone.
So we already have ares in which the bar is pretty low and devoid of an actual conviction. that's not all good, and I hate those policy slippery slopes, but that is where the laws stand as of now.
Pedro, there's also one other angle to this.
If we don't do something, there will be more and more pressure to start banning classes of guns and taking other actions, and that will restrict the rights of ALL Americans b/c we aren't willing to examine restricting the rights of people who have shown to be a high risk to others through their radical beliefs and associations.
I'm not keen on either outcome, but in an imperfect world I'm not sure what else we do to address it. I seriously doubt people will simply accept these kinds of incidents without some kind of action on the part of the government to prevent them, and that action could end up being a lot worse for our rights than the option I outlined.
What I find laughable is that banning of this weapon would have prevented this. McVeigh used fertilizer, the 9/11 crew used box cutters and someone who is about to commit capital murder as many times as he can is not going to comply with a gun law, or any other law between him and his criminal objective.
This nutjob graduated from Martin County HS which is a block from my office. My son is districted for that school but we send him to another school. He has a 4 year old child (the shooter, not my son).
As stated above, the GOP and gun advocates need to just shut up on this one for now and let Obama and crew shoot themselves in the foot for now (no pun intended). Let them go with the "gun argument" for a few days then make them look stupid because this isn't a gun issue. They want it to be one because it take the message away from the real issue which is terrorism, something Obama is woefully inadequately addressed. Let the left spend energy politicizing this about gun control then counter punch with terrorism because THAT is the issue. Making this a gun issue falls into their trap.......again.
Additionally, the GOP should use this as a means to reach out to the gay community in an election year.