Me neither
Printable View
Me neither
I saw a blog post that they are out of water and running out of food and such at the concessions, with a 40 minute wait.
So I applaud them for running their convention the same way they want to run health care and everything else: with long waits, shortages and rationing.
I've been listening to it and I must admit........that I've never heard or seen this much bullshit in one place. These democrat leaders are complete idiots.
$15 per hour minimum wage? That's all fine but how are you gonna create all these new jobs you claim when that wage would cripple many small businesses as well as discourage entrepreneurialism.
Sanders and Warren wanna say that "no American who works 40 hours should live in poverty". I agree so stop giving our tax dollars to undeserving welfare recipients!
Free college education? Who and how in the hell will pay for this? Workers at colleges must be paid from professors all the way down to custodians. I'd be interested to hear the opinions of some of the guys on here who make their living as college educators.
What say you?
No
I can tell you this, raise min wage to $15 per hour and
You will pay...if you still go...?10 for a McDonald meal
I will have to raise prices 13% across the board just to pay for it...and don't forget that the small businesses like mine have to match social security on top of that increase. More than likely I would fold the ship and go to work for someone else for $15
The poor will still be poor. That is $600 a week if they can work 40 hours, $30,000! A year, sounds good eccentric the price of everything jumps big time so they are still poor.
And republicans don't care about us either and we know it, I had one of my senators basically tell me to my face he didn't care, when I introduced myself at a fundraiser and praised his wife and daughter he looks me in the face and says,,,oh you are a mom and pop star and turned around and walked off.
And I bet he lost your vote right then and there.Quote:
Originally Posted by jazyd
Of all their dumb ideas, none is more dumb than the $15/hour minimum wage. It's earth shattering how naive you have to be about economics to think that's a good idea.
I'll tell you this, either my commissions go way up or I close my doors if that comes to fruition. I know they want to sell the image of rich greedy overlords who run businesses just raking it in on the backs of the poor workers while we play golf, but that's a crock. I work twice as many hours as anyone I employ, I'm hardly raking it in after all the expenses I have (many thanks to taxes and regulation), and what I pay is about all I can afford b/c I want to retain good people nad the FREE MARKET takes care of it.
It's not just paying everyone at least $15/hour, which is crazy enough, but you can't pay the current $15/hour people that wage when they're worth more than the people now making $10 or $12 or whatever, and they go up. So you have to raise about everyone except of course me, b/c I'm the greedy white privileged dumbass who keeps working for a living instead of paying a doctor to declare me disabled so I can retire on the government dole.
Seriously, either I'd have to charge a lot more for services, at least a 15-20% hike, or I shut down. So how does it help anyone when you raise wages and then raise all the prices all those people have to pay by the same amount?
Guess what - it doesn't help them. All it will do is drive more money to capital, less to labor, resulting in net job losses, and an inflation bubble that eats up those extra wages.
It's micro economics 101, and it's pretty much beyond any reasonable mathematical dispute. It's not macro theory, this is proven tested, micro theory.
I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but it kills me how badly basic economics can be distorted. There are far better ways to raise people up out of poverty, ways that don't result in price spikes that eat up the extra money they earn. The vast vast majority of those who make minimum wage work in small businesses, and we've already about crippled that engine of the US economy (and it's big secret), and now they want to kill it altogether.
Liberalism 101: Promise everyone everything and never talk about how the bill is going to get paid, just act like there won't be one.
Actually if it were like Obama care, your food would be free because somebody else is paying for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenBBN
Yeah, the 15 per hour is funny. But I particularly enjoyed it when they try to explain why keeping illegal Mexicans out of the country is a bad idea and they use the excuse that the price of farm goods will skyrocket because of the loss of cheap labor. That's because paying them and every other worker a minimum of $15.00 somehow magically gets forgotten. And yes, ive had this argument multiple timesQuote:
Originally Posted by TRUCKERCATFAN
The other aspect of the minimum was increase is the increased cost of good will affect those at $15.00. I mean if McDonalds has to raise the cost of a big Mac to $5.00, who is that going to affect? Not me as I can afford a $5.00 big Mac. To me that's not a big deal but to the lower income end, when you have to pay 5-10% more for something, it is a big deal.
I'm all for paying a fair wage. Paying one keeps good workers. Currently the min wage here is $8.08 but I don't have a single employee who earns that. I start them at $10 and raise at 90 days. But forcing business to basically double their costs for unskilled labor is ridiculous. Sure, spouting it gets you votes so why not promise $50.00 an hour?
Reminds me of my childhood when I wondered why the government didn't print money like crazy and give it away so everybody was a millionaire. It showed a total lack of understanding economics.
Not really, lots of people are paying huge premiums, have outlandish deductibles, and don't go to the doctor enough to receive any of the benefits. It's like paying $20 for a hotdog and them giving it to someone else for free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
That's the dumb part, and goes to your thing about just printing money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
If the dollar cost of labor goes up by fiat across the board, then guess what happens to prices? When that happens then all you've done is create inflation, not a wage increase.
Higher wages come from higher dollar value added, higher productivity. Most of those jobs were never intended to be lifetime jobs but rather entry level jobs from which one worked hard and moved up. The reason that doesn't happen as much as it once did is b/c of the burden of regulation and taxes that is crushing small businesses.
For the first time in US history more businesses are closing rather than opening. That doesn't grab the headlines, but it is the single biggest economic indicator, and it tells us that the level of government intrusion is so high that we're finally paying the price in a shrinking economy. That business expansion is what leads to job expansion and demand for labor and thus higher wages. That's why wages aren't going up, b/c there's not enough growth in the economy to create demand for labor.
NO! And I didn't watch the RNC either. I have better things to do than listen to a bunch of lying liars whose bloviations have the same qualities as methane gas!
The Dems manipulate unemployment numbers and try to shout down any economic truthsayers who try to warn people about the true economic situation. Take away the fake job numbers and people will have to face how our economy is propped up and barely limping along.Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenBBN
Man. That is horrible way to be treated. I see it more about the rich vs the poor. And the richest of the rich want to stay on top and the best way to stay there is destroy the middle class and make us all poor.Quote:
Originally Posted by jazyd
Liberals and conservative elites love illegal aliens. Those folks keep all the wages down. Now they are here in such great numbers it is much harder to deal with the problem.
I prefer watching reruns of fixer upper or Americas got talent
About to be a HORDE of lies tonight, lots of gun control on the agenda.
I've been watching game 3 of the 76 World Series on Reds Rewind!
You must have watched Waters World tonight lolQuote:
Originally Posted by dan_bgblue
That's an absolute false statement. One that Rubio repeatedly said during his campaign, that is seems like you're almost regurgitating. Although, you're more incorrect than Rubio when he made his similar claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenBBN
Now, if you had said, for the 1st time in 35 years for a 3 year period following the largest economic collapse since the Great Depression, that more businesses closed than open, then you would be correct. However, 2012 that trend reversed and 2013 was even higher. Those two years, though, has not seen the births of businesses of the rate over that 35 year period, 479,000 new businesses created, but still coming in at a two year average of 409,000. There are no numbers yet for 2014 and 2015, but with the economy improving year over year, I'm sure the numbers are back in line.
It takes a while to recover from the collapse that we endured in '08-09. The fact that we've had such growth that we have is really awesome, but it's completely lost on the right that can't admit that things are better today than they were when Obama took office. While we still have a ways to go, though, but this is just another weak attempt to paint a picture of reality that isn't so.
Look, I'm out here, on the real front lines. This "recovery" is a joke, the most anemic in recorded history, and it is NOT happening with the traditional way that the US does things, by spurring small business growth.Quote:
Originally Posted by StuBleedsBlue2
Only children and fools can't tell the difference between "better" and "not as good as it should be", well that and certain sports ADs. Most people can step back and see when things are grossly underperforming, even if they aren't yet in bankruptcy.
What you don't mention is that there wasn't some sudden shift in 2008 that explains this all away, as you clearly infer. No, in fact it's a long term trend from the 1970s till now, reversing in 2008 but critically NOT reversing even through 2011.
Now let's talk about "worst since the Depression". As far as small business growth goes there's a simple answer: Horseshit.
I was in a small business when Reagan took over, and I remember what 21% interest rates did to business investment. I was also in small business in 2008, and while there was a sharp spike when the markets blew up (thanks to government tinkering in real estate, and I know more about that than almost anything on Earth), it was far shorter than the years long process of getting out of stagflation, which btw was thought by most liberal economists at the time as being an impossibility.
So in the early 80s, with 21% interest and inflation there were STILL More businesses opening and fewer closing than we have now, right now, today when money for investment is so cheap it's almost free.
So how is it that capital is so much more available, usually the key to new business startups, yet startups are so far behind where we were during the worst capital crunch since maybe ever? Well the only other explanations are that a) there are better options than opening a new business (and that's true sorta thanks to government welfare), and b) there are other costs associated with opening and expanding that makes the bar too high even with cheap money.
Now what's interesting is that the pace of business closures started THREE YEARS before the 2008 crash, so that's not the only factor here. In fact it was pretty precipitous, so what is going on? Well you know, that's when Bush II and the GOP decided to do their best Democrat impression and start spending and taxing, increasing payroll tax costs among other things. Coincidence?
Since 1980 the average age of firms keeps going up, which means that there are fewer and fewer new young companies, fewer startups. It's a long term trend, not caused just by Obama (though his recovery is horridly weak), but caused by the long term trend of government imposing more and more on small businesses to the point they simply give up or dont' start up.
There's no fooling me on this with broad talk and massaged statistics from the Department of Labor. I'm in it, I've lived it since the day I was born, and I know what is going on b/c I'm the one spending my nights and weekends filling out forms and paying accountants and putting up with nearly endless crap from every level of government. I also can do math, which means I can add up all the hidden taxes on me and my employees, and see how they keep creeping up.
Here's a good breakdown of the situation, but watch out it's from that well known right wing regurgitating site, the Washington Post:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...n-five-charts/
FwiW, there is another factor, and interestingly Bernie hit on the problem, just not the solution: college debt. Most new business startups come from 20 somethings and 30 somethings, but if they start out with loads of debt they can't start businesses as easy. The article touches on this point, and that is part of the issue. Of course the leftist solution is to just tax graduates more to pay for undergraduates, when the answer is to simply break up this near oligopoly of the college system.
The other factor, other than government regulation and college costs, is that these young kids are largely just lazy and spoiled, and don't want to work the hours it takes to start a business and be an entrepreneur. They also don't have a lot of guts to take chances, but mostly lazy.
So to sum up: even in the doldrums of the 80s with sky high capital costs and a host of other problems, new business startups vastly outpaced closures, and new businesses were hiring all during that time. But since 2005 it's gone south fast, with a big shove in 2008, but it has never recovered from either 2008 or the 2005 drop. We're no where NEAR where we should be historically in this country, and ignoring that just to say "we're better off than we were" is the most simplistic and nonsensical possible view of the situation that ignores that there is something seriously wrong in the way our national economic engine is running.
Your approach is to see the engine light on and just keep on driving b/c the car is still running OK. It's naive on a long stretch of lonely road at night and it's naive when handling the nation's economic future.
I think I can get some of the graphs to show here. This is probably the most important one, showing the long term decline in new business entries to the market. Notice that the exit rate is relatively constant with spikes in times of economic hardship. So it's not 2008 explaining it all away b/c we saw the closures there but also in the 80s during that troubled time.
No, the key is that we have a long term, consistent decline in people opening new businesses. It finally has gotten so bad that when we did get a closure spike the two data sets reversed, but even if they get back in the right order the gap is so fundamentally small compared to historic norms that it really doesn't make the situation better.
here's the chart, I hope:
Attachment 5657
Here's another that pretty much eviscerates your theory that this is just due to the 2008 market crash.
It shows that the Millennials started really dropping off in new business creation in 2010 and 2011, years later, and in fact it looks like all the age ranges pivoted some at that time.
Now what could have happened around 2010/2011 that might account for a complete shift in approach to business planning and startups by all age ranges, but have different effects? No hints yet, I'll let you guess, but the conservatives on here will get it, all with out "regurgitation".
Attachment 5658
In the interest of fairness, here is your dataset displayed graphically:
Attachment 5659
Here are the key points:
1) New startups are still lower in 2008 and significantly so than even the worst year in the 80s, but in 2012, FOUR years later they're STILL worse than when we had 21% mortgage rates and it was impossible to borrow money and we still had double digit inflation to boot. Per your own numbers even going out to 2014 it's STILL worse than when we had 21% interest and steep price inflation eating up wages and savings.
So no the 80s were worse than 2008, and we're STILL worse off than them SIX years after a market adjustment that the Dow recovered from years ago.
2) It again shows that there is a long term, systemic problem with prime age people starting up new businesses. That has nothing to do with 2008 as it started earlier and has only continued.
so no we are NOT better off than we were 8 years ago. The engine light is on, we think we smell smoke, and your solution is to just keep on driving because we seem to be making good time.
There is a systemic, serious problem with our economic engine. The only long term explanation that covers the data is that 30+ years of expanding government bureaucracy has created high costs for starting a new business combined with strong economic incentives to not give off your ass and work hard, and we're finally reaping the results and it's only going to get worse.
"You didn't build that" is Obama's belief, he said so. He doesn't believe in entrepreneurship, to him it's just some kind of way to exploit people without having to file even MORE paperwork and maybe thwart a union. He's a nightmare, but only the latest nail in a long war on the free market and individualism.
One last post on this, just to get ahead of the next objection, the myth that 2008 was some nightmare "worst since the Great Depression". Man, that's funny.
let's look at real GDP as an indication of how bad an economy is doing overall. That's a decent overall measure.
http://www.econedlink.org/lessons/im...8_figure21.jpg
Oh look. by that measure, 2008 wasn't even in the bottom 5.
But there are other measures (nothing is easier to manipulate than these numbers). here's one that shows growth rate, where 2008 is roughly the same as the big spike in the 80s, but again the 80s had two major such spikes showing that the length of the issue then was much longer:
Attachment 5660
2008 was bad, but it wasn't 1980s bad, esp. for small businesses, but regardless the overall point stands, b/c the data is incontrovertible that small business startups are anemic compared to even bad economic times 30 years ago. Those years look positively healthy even when compared to something 5-6 years after a downturn.
Let's not forget that the 2008 collapse was caused in large part by the Clinton housing push.
When did I say that?Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenBBN
I just said that your statement was wrong, and it is.
It's been used and used by Republicans to lay blame on Obama for a struggling economy, and my point is that the economy is much better today than it was 8 years ago, but it's not at all where it needs to be, but the fact that it turned the corner after such a disastrous effect is pretty awesome.
I've been in it too, having been one of those that had to close the door on a small business(well, my wife's).
If you have a job, we're all out there on the front lines. From my perspective, the economy is moving along very well. Is it for all? Of course not, but that just means there is more work to do.
Weakest recovery in modern times. The Obama administration did more to stifle growth than to enhance growth. He is a failed president in the mode of Jimmy Carter.Quote:
Originally Posted by StuBleedsBlue2
Citizen, excellent thought provoking data. However, you have overlooked one basic fact. You can't argue with facts against a radical progressive, liberal mind that can easily overlook lies, deceit and unethical behavior to perpetuate a flawed model.