Was this something about the vaccine and penile enlargement, if so please forward!Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolinawildcats
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Was this something about the vaccine and penile enlargement, if so please forward!Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolinawildcats
As for covid stories I’ve experienced since all of this started, I have a few more. We all had it back in august a year ago basically today, so I saw how it went around before you could do anything about it . My kids were asymptomatic minus a runny nose and one had a cough. It passed from one who got it with his friends, to the other kids, then to me I believe before we knew it. We had friends over I gave it to one of them. Wife never got it and slept in the same bed when I was sick. It was like a nasty flu for me. All but my boys got vaccinated and it made the wife who never got it and had no antibodies almost as sick as I was for a day and a half. She had moderna. I had J&J and a sore arm, and daughter had the Pfizer first shot. So here we are a year later and none of us got tested but pretty sure the kids were carrying the virus again last week. My son was a college counselor at church camp a few weeks ago, and guessing he got it since a lot of them did and it was delta…they shut the camp down. He came home with a runny nose, daughter then has a runny nose and the other boy got one too. We all agreed they probably had it. My wife got a fever for a day or two and felt kind of crappy, and I had a spell of blah. Guessing the vaccines did their job. Had another friend get it for the second time he is an antivaxer, one of the few cases I’ve heard of anyone getting it twice and confirming by testing. My mom went to a lunch with her best friend Monday and the friend is pretty sick in the er with it, and had the vaccine. She has a poor immune system and is about 72. My close friend is an er doc and he is in an awful mood at the time. Really pissed people won’t get the vaccine because they are on the way to not be able to handle it. Turned away 27 people the other day he said, gets worse every day and seeing a lot of 30/40 year olds getting really sick unlike last time. He has said almost everyone he is seeing that is sick is unvaccinated. Unless Pedro has told us we’re gonna grow a new arm or shrink one of your legs, sounds like it would improve your odds greatly to get vaccinated based on what I’ve experienced and heard.
Saw a non-controlled study based on breakthrough rates in I think Wisconsin or Minnesota, saying Pfizer vaccine is about 46% effective, Moderna was 76% or so.
That's not something you can take as gospel b/c it won't have controlled for levels of exposure or any other differences, but still a disturbing number.
So in other words, it’s like the flu shot and will occur every year…..
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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN
FWIW, this week my daughter's Covid-ICU Team won the Team "Daisy Award" for 2020. If ever there was a no-brainer decision, that was it. That's not awarded in every hospital every year, either.
Her 2nd Daisy Award. She won the individual Daisy Award in 2019. Awfully proud of her.
She told me she'd trade every one of them not to have to go through the treatment of those patients again. In related news, a 39 year old beloved police officer died yesterday of Covid here. That's public; I don't know what hospital he was in.
Whatever your beliefs are, please stay safe and healthy.
It is a COVID Type virus. We have not, to this point, developed any type of vaccine that permanently prevents a COVID type virus. IT is not like the measles, small pox, etc. COVID Viruses have animal hosts and can spread to non-humans and then back to humans after mutations making permanent vaccines almost impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof
so yep, it will be like the flu.
Why hasnt this ever occurred before, is this one just different because it is so transmissable compared to others or more deadly? what made them think we could stop it, did they really think we could vaccinate the world in short order? seems like the line is always moving with this thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by VirginiaCat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padukacat
But it has. Why do you think they provide an annual flu vaccine? Why do you have to reintroduce a tetanus vaccine every so many years?
Now, as to why they thought they could stop it... I really cannot answer. It is not like the way a COVID virus acts is strange to us. SARS was a Covid type as I understand but was very difficult to spread so it did not every truly become a pandemic.
I do think that is one of the early worries about COVID19...was that it could mutate to be more SARS like from a lethality standpoint but be much more transmutable to others. Has not occurred yet but could I suppose.
I have accepted that I and my family will have to learn to live with a COVID19 variant going forward. Will be making annual choices on a vaccine. Much like I did a flu shot. I never took a flu shot. Never felt threatened...but I would have as I aged because the Flu is much more lethal as we age and our lungs and other systems degenerate.
To this point, COVID19 had been similar. IT seemed to attack those with compromised immune or respiratory systems the worst. Not 100% but highly weighted to other issue such as weight, lung function, age, etc. Delta may be changing that but so far, it appears spread and lethality are the same...just now found a new population. And Delta is transmutable to someone with the vaccine. Those individuals appear to be mostly mild to asymptomatic but their viral load is the same as a person who is unvaccinated...which means they spread at the same rate as a person who is unvaccinated. Hence, them moving back to asking for masks...
It is really a bit of column A and column B. Another factor is this is only the 7th known coronavirus strain to infect humans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Padukacat
Four of the known human-infecting coronavirus strains (OC43, HKU1, 229E, and NL63) are a common source of the 'common cold', viral pneumonia, etc. Though I do have to say, for the sake of clarity, the majority of common cold cases are caused by rhinoviruses. These strains are relatively mild but also notably contagious. Because they are so relatively mild (though they can cause pneumonia in infants, the elderly, etc.), there hasn't been a lot of pressure to develop vaccines for these strains, we have a lot of other heavier hitters to focus on.
The other three (SARS-CoV, MERS-COV, and SARS-CoV-2) are where things get more severe. Of these three, MERS has the highest fatality rate (30%) but could barely transmit from human-to-human and eventually died out. Everyone remembers the original SARS virus, this virus was severe enough that we began investigating how to create vaccines for the virus. Thankfully we controlled the virus before the vaccines were needed but the research from this initial outbreak was applicable to both the MERS outbreak and the current outbreak. In the end, this is a huge part of the reason we were able to develop a vaccine so quickly; we were "standing on the shoulders of giants". We already knew a huge amount about how this virus infected people, what its weaknesses were, etc.
As for the line moving, it isn't moving. Most of our vaccines are not perfect, this includes vaccines against measles, polio, etc. They rely on a combination of extremely high levels of vaccination, relatively high efficacy rates, and a reduction of symptoms to convey a broad-scale immunity; this virus is no different. We have potentially compounded this situation by giving the booster shots too close together. This was a necessary decision to save lives and try to return things to normal, only time will tell whether it was a good one or not. As I have mentioned elsewhere, most of our vaccines which use a booster give the booster at 6mo-1yr to achieve optimal long-lasting immunity but that was not a time scale we could afford when over 3k people a day were dying at the peak.
I also want to mention, there is a LOT of disinformation going on right now from people who don't understand biostatistics/study design/epidemiology/etc. I'll get into that a bit in my next post, which discuses some of the misleading data out there.
Eagerly awaiting second post Pedro. It's a befuddled Covid world out there, I always look forward to your clarity and knowledge.
OK time discuss misleading data analysis and fear mongering about the vaccines. There has been a LOT of discussion by anti-vaxxers and the media about how the Israeli data shows that efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine against hospitalization has dropped dramatically or even potentially rendered it useless. An article over at COVID Data Science digs into this data deeper and explains why this is likely VERY wrong (images taken from this article).
The article starts with the first level of how people are actively misleading via data with the goal of discrediting the vaccines. They will state that more people in the hospital are fully vaccinated than unvaccinated which is true. Anti-vaxxers, in particular, will often state this is a sign that the vaccines aren't working and ignore all other data.
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/c...542f0~mv2.webp
The reason this is misleading is it doesn't take into account the fact that there are far more people in the vaccinated category than the unvaccinated category (78.7% of their population is fully vaccinated); this fallacy is called the Base Rate Bias. If we adjust for the base rates of the population we get a picture which is notably closer to the truth:
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/c...2fc69~mv2.webp
Many anti-vaxxers and journalists alike have been using this statistic to claim the vaccine efficacy is dropping rapidly over time (Israel was the first to do wide spread vaccination). . If we split things out by age (which is a known factor), then we see a suddenly better picture:
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/c...88b48~mv2.webp
The truth is, this is just an example of Simpson's Paradox (where confounding variables cause a different result than the truth). This image shows how breaking populations out into confounding groups can more accurately represent the results:
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/c...a9cac~mv2.webp
In fact, if we break it out into a number of smaller age groups, we get the following:
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/c...d5e9d~mv2.webp
Which shows essentially NO decrease in efficacy at all! This is very much in line with the data seen in other parts of the world which show little decrease in effectiveness against hospitalization/death with either mRNA vaccine.
Exciting developments!
https://news.virginia.edu/content/on...WzNUVHbEr7egpc
That Va study must be the Legendary Omega vaccine, man?
Seriously, the report from dukegirl’s daughter now ond her 2nd deployment with the army in lousiana is that hospitalized patients are unvaxed. Part of that is the population bias talked about above,I guess, but the end result is middle aged unvaccinated sedated people dying alone on ventilators. I report, you decide.
Everything indicates those who are hospitalized are well over 90% unvaccinated, maybe 98% or more.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsky
Just get the damned vaccine and move on. Half the country has taken it with minimal side effects thus far, and in fact the tech on which it is based has been years in the making. I get being hesitant, but clearly with delta the time to act has arrived. Enough people have had it, and while long term epidemiology won't be available, the risk of that versus the risk of Covid makes the decision clear enough.
Yep, At this point, get the now approved Pfizer or J&J if you’re hesitant. If you’ve had covid and recovered, I buy the natural immunity argument, and there are those with certain diseases whose doctors prohibit the vaccine, but if they are 10% of the reluctant I’d be surprised. Otherwise time to go get jabbed.
Just to reiterate, unvaccinated, dying alone and sedated and unaware, on a ventilator, isn’t “freedom”. But the on the ground report from Louisiana is that is exactly the situation of those packing into the gulf coast hospitals.
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Originally Posted by Catfan73
ok, this is really cool how they are doing this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfan73
Ditto. That would be a game changer.Quote:
Originally Posted by VirginiaCat
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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN
Pretty much end of thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsky
The vaccine is safe, it is effective, it saves lives. Is it perfect? No. Is it far better than catching COVID, no question.
The Boss and I received our first doses of the Moderna vaccine just this past Friday. We go back for our 2nd doses on 09-17-2021.
I still am not convinced that these vaccines are anywhere close to 100% safe, but we finally relented because of 1) some of the things that our daughter sees in the hospital where she works as a nurse, and 2) even though we both are healthy for our ages.
If the yearly influenza vaccines can't keep you from becoming ill with the flu, then it only stands to reason that these Covid-19 vaccines will work the same way.
I am very glad you and your wife finally got the vaccine.Quote:
Originally Posted by suncat05
As I have stated before, the coronavirus in no way resembles the flu when it comes to mutation. The flu is an extremely unique case, it is intrinsically designed to mutate and swap its RNA with other flu viruses; the coronavirus while still having room to mutate does not have that ability.
Vaccines required, by state law, for students before entering kindergarten or 1st grade,
diptheria, Tetanus, Pertusus, Polio, Measels, mumps, rubella. 90.2% of US children are inoculated for those diseases by the age of 2 years.
Do some adults see that it is OK for the state to mandate inoculations for their children, but do not think the state has the same right when it concerns them?
I know I have super smart friends here, but I really appreciate your ability to take a complex issue and explain it so I (we) can understand it. That's a gift.Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroDaGr8
This is the part I don't quite get. We have required vaccinations against diseases for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_bgblue
Now, there have been anti-vaccination movement literally since the first vaccines, but at this point I am surprised at the resistance to this one in particular given that the virus has caused such chaos.
I do think it's due to decades of government and elites lying and manipulating the people of this country to such a degree most simply don't believe anything they are told that they don't care to believe, no matter which side of the political aisle from which they come.
Citizen: Also luddites who have long preached an anti-science mantra. Also crystals and all the new age healing better than western medicine beliefs. Also, revisionist history, no such thing as genders, CRT, truth is only relative. Also, years of bad food pyramids, medicines approved only to be pulled because of damage, failures in the testing and vetting. Who here took vioxx? Or any of the other medicines now part of class action suits?
What is truth? isn’t just a question for Pilate. It should be a question we should respect and provide answers for, rather than ridiculing those who ask, just for our political reasons (not you). Because many people don’t give it a second thought. Those are truly dangerous.
This is where I have been for a long time. We've watched and listened to the federal government lie to us in what seems to be forever now. About everything, no matter the situation is big or small, these government cretins will lie about anything, and everything. But the main problem I had with this vaccine situation is the fact that we don't have long term results in relation to it's possible side effects yet. THAT is my main concern.Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenBBN
We sat down and talked with our daughter about all the things she sees at the hospital, and what she thinks as a professional health care nurse. She agrees with us about the long term effects and the lack of that data, but it is clear that this Delta variant is deadly to older people who are not vaccinated, so we relented. That's the long and short of it.
Thanks, Pedro.Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroDaGr8
I may have missed this but does this mean we won’t be getting covid shots every year? Is this going to end or keep going, that’s my biggest question.Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroDaGr8
Go to the beach and take off your mask
Oh yeah, don't worry about getting THE shot either
Ivermectin. I ran across some highly agitated conversation about this drug on a message board and I began a search for information beyond the hysteria and the run of the mill pseudo fact based arguments found there. I was introduced to Ivermectin back in the mid 70s when I was working in the agricultural animal health industry, and even back then it was being used in underdeveloped countries as a cheap semi miracle drug used against a few hard to control diseases in humans and was being evaluated as possibly the drug of choice against many other diseases. Back in the day Merck was packaging the drug in a form to be used for humans and another form for animals. Same drug, just different inert ingredients and a much different mg of active ingredient per mg of pill size.
Linkage to scientific research article of it's effectiveness against Covid 19
Please note that this post is not an endorsement of Ivermectin as a treatment for Covid19 and especially not an endorsement of using the drug you can find at the local agricultural feed store. I posted this for discussion purposes only.
Moving article from the Herald Leader…
https://www.kentucky.com/article2537...UddOP6xLKNJrX8
Dan,
This didn't come from me, but there are places you can order just about any antibiotic, etc. that is for "animals", which is the same thing they give to humans.
But I didn't know that, and I never even met your sister.
Exactly the in person non media reports from Louisiana. Once you’re intubated, you’re sedated. Isolated, barely aware. Drowning. Don’t lose the internet debate this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfan73
Some stuff is identical, other stuff isn’t. Things like amoxicillin are the same, it has the same code on the capsule, comes from the same places that supply the pharmacies.Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenBBN
I’ve heard of vets that write pet owner’s scripts to fill at their pharmacies, because it is cheaper to get off the $4 or $5 pharmacy lists than it was for the vet to fill them.
Ivermectin comes in a number of different forms and formulations. When we had horses we gave them the paste type, my daughter has three alpacas and they get one injection a month. With all the different formulations I wouldn’t take it.
Oh I'm not advising it. They have clamped down on it a lot as well over the years. Just an interesting back door to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithKSR
If someone wants to take livestock dewormer, have at it but the side effects might be a lot worse than with the vaccine. We do have lots of horse barns and could probably open some stalls up to relieve the overcrowding in the hospitals.
I wouldn’t advise the livestock version, but the US has 6 times the death rate that India has.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfan73
Wikipedia is not allowed to publish the recent meta-analysis on Ivermectin authored by Dr. Andrew Hill. Furthermore, it is not allowed to say anything concerning www.ivmmeta.com showing the 61 studies comprising 23,000 patients which reveal up to a 96% reduction in death [prophylaxis] with Ivermectin.
What does this mean? Does it mean that the vaccines available in the USA are wonder drugs as they have a 98.2% survival rate, or does it mean that that the overall health care in India is 2.2% worse than it is in the USA, and survival rates in the USA would be around 98.2% with no Vaccine as Ivermectin used as a treatment of Covid 19 is a hoax?
My brother in law posted this on his Facebook page this morning. He’s an epidemiologist, works at East Carolina U.
I think I've heard every excuse and argument there is for not getting the vaccine. Bottom line - the vaccines available in the U.S. are very safe and highly effective at preventing severe illness. They are not 100% effective but I can't think of any vaccine that is. They work exactly as they should and depending on your viewpoint can be viewed as a fantastic scientific success story and/or a wonderful gift from God. Either way -- I'm ecstatic that they work so well. What I'm frustrated about is the fact that so many have dug their heels in simply to dig their heels in and refuse. Everybody who gets the current virus is giving it to about 7 others on average. So, each person is building their own "pyramid of infection". And even if the person at the top of the pyramid has a mild or asymptomatic infection, it's guaranteed that some people in their pyramid below them will need to be hospitalized and some will die. So even if you don't get the vaccine and have no problems with COVID in the future, you are still wrong. You can never say you were right just because you had an easy time with COVID. You will have spread the virus and your pyramid of infection will contain people who you may or may not know who became extremely ill and you will even be responsible for a few who died. In addition, every infected person gives the current virus strain a chance to mutate and get stronger so this whole mess can definitely get worse. So if you are not vaccinated yet, please stop being stubborn and just help fight this disease.