Coronavirus

Cali is a great example to compare to New York. Also very social large cities with international ties, but far fewer infections.

I can't say what he's doing right or wrong, and he's working with a mayor of NY that seems to be a complete fool. Just a week or so ago he was talking about keeping schools open.

But clearly all this praise should be tempered with the hard fact that his state is seeing the virus rage out of control compared to any other location in the US except maybe New Orleans, and frankly that's really bad news if you're being compared to New Orleans when it comes to sound government and hygiene.

absolutely bad to have a cities cleanliness compared to The Big Easy....
Since I’ve seen it first hand lol

Some of the things that are holding up the new stimulus bill, compliments of Nancy Pelosi:

- corporate board diversity,
- lowering greenhouse gas emissions of airlines
- requiring state’s implement same-day voter registration

Those are in her House bill for dealing with covid19. Just like how abortion funding was in the last one.

For those who think Trump "played politics" in downplaying this oncoming virus, what's your opinion of this maneuver?

This is her chance to get some big leftist policies in place, blackmailing the GOP and Trump into agreeing b/c the media will surely blame the GOP and Trump and not her. Same day voter registration is an insult to the entire process, but its a great way to game an election, and they know it. Get it enforced nationally and they win a major, major political battle.

So they are using this crisis to try to pull that off. That's all this is about.

If I'm in charge I say F-em, let the country go into a depression and millions out of work, will only be the fault of the fools running the show. Why even deal with that kind of naked selfishness in the middle of a real crisis?

This isn’t the time for politics...that goes both ways too.
She and Schumer are playing with fire....

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

Some of the things that are holding up the new stimulus bill, compliments of Nancy Pelosi:

- corporate board diversity,
- lowering greenhouse gas emissions of airlines
- requiring state’s implement same-day voter registration

Those are in her House bill for dealing with covid19. Just like how abortion funding was in the last one.

For those who think Trump "played politics" in downplaying this oncoming virus, what's your opinion of this maneuver?

This is her chance to get some big leftist policies in place, blackmailing the GOP and Trump into agreeing b/c the media will surely blame the GOP and Trump and not her. Same day voter registration is an insult to the entire process, but its a great way to game an election, and they know it. Get it enforced nationally and they win a major, major political battle.

So they are using this crisis to try to pull that off. That's all this is about.

If I'm in charge I say F-em, let the country go into a depression and millions out of work, will only be the fault of the fools running the show. Why even deal with that kind of naked selfishness in the middle of a real crisis?

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Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof

This isn’t the time for politics...that goes both ways too.
She and Schumer are playing with fire....

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Absolutely it goes both ways. Which is why the GOP did the right thing to swallow hard and vote for the last one without dispute despite it having some embedded politics in it.

The House got their turn at this game. The Senate should have theirs and the House do the same thing.

This is beyond fire, but the media will have their backs and only report that their objection is too much corporate money and not enough for hospitals. Clearly since those things are physically in the bill the House is drafting that is just a lie.

Oh please. This is all political posturing. They will come to an agreement and this will happen soon.

This is how negotiating works. You throw in things you know the other side doesn't want so that you can "negotiate" by taking them out. Both sides do it. Both sides ARE currently doing it. Its par the course.

None of us know what is really happening behind closed doors. We only hear what the other want us to hear. Which means none of us have a clue what is or is not in the bill.

An agreement will happen.

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

Oh please. This is all political posturing. They will come to an agreement and this will happen soon.

This is how negotiating works. You throw in things you know the other side doesn't want so that you can "negotiate" by taking them out. Both sides do it. Both sides ARE currently doing it. Its par the course.

None of us know what is really happening behind closed doors. We only hear what the other want us to hear. Which means none of us have a clue what is or is not in the bill.

An agreement will happen.

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I didn't see any posturing with the GOP in the last bill. None. There were some poison pills in there too, like mandatory 2 weeks sick leave without a sure way employers get paid back, and funding for abortion and such.

But the GOP did the right thing by NOT negotiating and just getting it passed. In fact it was the GOP leadership that pushed to make that happen over objections of the members. Or are you saying that's not what happened?

Yet now when it's the Democrats turn to do the same thing suddenly it's all OK b/c it's just normal political posturing.

Maybe this isn't such a good time for politics as normal. A person on here who I respect has told me for more than a month how serious this is and how if it upends our entire lives and economy we have to do it. Maybe he should hold his elected politicians to the same standard? I don't think they're taking it nearly as seriously as you suggest they take it, and Wall Street seems to agree with me.

I know the art of negotiation as well as anyone. This is no time for those games and any adult in that Capital building knows it too.

The Fed has given corporate America its relief. Congress needs to be working for working Americans.

Keep telling yourself that. Folks are at the end of their wick with this particular congress....it won’t play in Peoria...

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

Oh please. This is all political posturing. They will come to an agreement and this will happen soon.

This is how negotiating works. You throw in things you know the other side doesn't want so that you can "negotiate" by taking them out. Both sides do it. Both sides ARE currently doing it. Its par the course.

None of us know what is really happening behind closed doors. We only hear what the other want us to hear. Which means none of us have a clue what is or is not in the bill.

An agreement will happen.

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Originally Posted by Catfan73

The Fed has given corporate America its relief. Congress needs to be working for working Americans.

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Actually no it hasn't, and this bill has a TON of other things in it that we need.

Like a check to every working family in America to help cover this month's bills.

Yes some of it will go to airlines and such, which will go bankrupt if we don't do something. I like being able to fly places, do you?

But it includes a lot of other things for small businesses as well, hundreds of millions worth.

Is it the "ideal bill"? Probably not. Was the last one? Nope. But at some point both sides need to just make it happen. the GOP did that with a bill that focused on things they didn't like, now it's time for the Dems to do the same thing.

Petty crap like claiming the $500 billion is for "Trump's friends" is just nonsense. It's a setaside for money to reassure Wall Street. It's a hell of a lot more upfront than "you have to vote for it to find out what's in it" like Obamacare.

It also cuts checks for every working family in America. Or are we against that too?

And guess what, if it needs more we can go back and do another bill for more, but we need some action on these things NOW. Like TODAY. This is playing politics at a desperately bad time to do so.

Feel free to fact check me on this, but Senator Grassley is one of the most honest and forthright members of the Senate. He has worked hard on exposing waste and duplicity in the government for a very long time.

His take on it is exactly what I'm saying: the GOP swallowed and voted without delay on the Phase II bill made up by the Democratic House, even though there were provisions in there the GOP didn't like, and now the Dems are balking at Phase III and playing politics as usual.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/chuck-...us-relief-bill

The GOP could have come back with their own bill against Phase II but didn't b/c it was important to get SOMETHING passed.

This bill, Phase III, includes direct cash payments to most Americans, and the income cutoff is $75K, so it's targeted to those facing unemployment.

It's not perfect, but it's good, and it can happen now so the money can start flowing.

asking for same day voter registration? That's OK? Not in this situation it isn't. This is a war time footing, and you don't hold up the guns and ammo in order to get your unrelated political pet projects accomplished.

I wish we had an actual media in this country. If we did this wouldn't have lasted the day b/c Pelosi would be crucified. But since most of the media is as partisan as the politicians I don't expect such an outcome.

Some of the provisions in the House bill that are all apparently just normal, acceptable negotiation:

The bill proposed by Pelosi, D-Calif., additionally seeks to eliminate debt held by the U.S. Postal Service, require same-day voter registration, pay off $10,000 in student debt per person, mandate that airlines reduce their overall emissions by 50 percent by 2050, and force federal agencies to explain to Congress how they are increasing their usage of "minority banks."

And, the legislation would provide for the automatic extension of nonimmigrant visas and restrict colleges from providing information about citizenship status

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pel...hange-wishlist

I should note that the Senate, in 5 committees that included both parties, spent last week hammering this bill out, and NOW with Pelosi back in town (she was busy taking a week off last week) we get to somehow START the "negotiations".

As Mitch said, it was fine and had bipartisan support until the Democratic leadership, specifically the House leadership, showed up. The House Majority Whip supposedly told The Hill this was their chance to shift things in their favor on other issues, and that's exactly what they are trying to do.

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Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof

Agree. NYC is densely populated. No question. However look at other sates, California has double the population of NY state and 3 very large population centers, in LA, San Fran and San Diego. The cases in California is around 50 per million or so. Many states acted along with the words. NY didn’t....

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The key to virus control is not being couped up. It is air flow. I did work for the local humane society. They were constantly fighting airborne virus, as almost all humane society/animal shelters do. They eventually required a new building and a big key was AIR TURNOVER. Simply put it is not contact so much as high concentration of particles in the air. We designed directional airflow with high volume of turnover to dilute out the particles. It worked wonders. Infection rates and euthanasias went down dramatically. So for me, we have been doing stuff out of doors. Spending time at parks, etc. Local eateries would be fine with "open air" outdoor seating. But put in an urban setting, I'm not sure there is enough air to dilute out infectious particles.

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

Some of the provisions in the House bill that are all apparently just normal, acceptable negotiation:

The bill proposed by Pelosi, D-Calif., additionally seeks to eliminate debt held by the U.S. Postal Service, require same-day voter registration, pay off $10,000 in student debt per person, mandate that airlines reduce their overall emissions by 50 percent by 2050, and force federal agencies to explain to Congress how they are increasing their usage of "minority banks."

And, the legislation would provide for the automatic extension of nonimmigrant visas and restrict colleges from providing information about citizenship status

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pel...hange-wishlist

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3 words: LINE ITEM VETO

Should be used with 2 words: TERM LIMITS

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Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof

Keep telling yourself that. Folks are at the end of their wick with this particular congress....it won’t play in Peoria...

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Again, this is much ado about nothing. It’s going to pass.

The CDC is pretty specific about droplet transfer of this particular virus entering through the airway or mucous membranes. So outside of 6 ft is their recommendation. Many venues can’t accommodate that kind of spacing between patrons. Subways can’t, Buses can’t either. If you’re couped up with a carrier, you will likely eventually end up with the ailment, but it will be confined to the space you are in and those living within the said space.
All for air flow though. We do that here at my place at least once a month due to Radon concerns.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doc

The key to virus control is not being couped up. It is air flow. I did work for the local humane society. They were constantly fighting airborne virus, as almost all humane society/animal shelters do. They eventually required a new building and a big key was AIR TURNOVER. Simply put it is not contact so much as high concentration of particles in the air. We designed directional airflow with high volume of turnover to dilute out the particles. It worked wonders. Infection rates and euthanasias went down dramatically. So for me, we have been doing stuff out of doors. Spending time at parks, etc. Local eateries would be fine with "open air" outdoor seating. But put in an urban setting, I'm not sure there is enough air to dilute out infectious particles.

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

Again, this is much ado about nothing. It’s going to pass.

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So when Trump insists this include funding for the border wall, that's all square too?

Divisiveness is pure evil until your side uses it. Then it's all just negotiations.

Sometimes "politics as usual" is not moral, even for politicians. This is one of those times. Americans need to see a unified government working to solve this, not petty politics. You were nearly livid about Trump playing politics and lying in this process, but when Pelosi plays politics and lies it's all just going to work out fine. Uh huh.

This particular episode has wrecked the economy far worse than 9/11 did and it’s getting close to the 2008 crash in terms of percentage. My investment are in a mid 5 figure swan dive and I know I’m not the only one in that situation. Some have lost much more than I have. Some have nothing to lose but a job...and that is happening to many too.
I agree with Puma that a deal will be made. However, this isn’t the time for pork, posturing or bull$hit politics.

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Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof

This particular episode has wrecked the economy far worse than 9/11 did and it’s getting close to the 2008 crash in terms of percentage. My investment are in a mid 5 figure swan dive and I know I’m not the only one in that situation. Some have lost much more than I have. Some have nothing to lose but a job...and that is happening to many too.
I agree with Puma that a deal will be made. However, this isn’t the time for pork, posturing or bull$hit politics.

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Americans have a very reasonable notion that in times of real crisis that such politics gets set aside for the good of the nation and to get a fast response from a government designed from the ground up to work slowly.

It applies in times of war, and this qualifies. This is like holding up a spending bill for supporting our military on the front lines in order to get some things through. It's political blackmail and in normal times yes it's par for the course.

But it is highly unusual for even this country in times of war, and is near universally condemned.

If Trump were insisting on funding for the border wall today in order to sign this bill the media and the Democrats would be losing their collective minds. But since it's Pelosi pulling this stunt we ignore the reality of her actions and rely on the fact that yes, eventually some kind of deal will be struck.

I doubt they would all be so forgiving if the shoe were on the other foot.

And, ironically, the border wall has more to do with this crisis than things on Pelosi's list. lol

This is no time for pet projects either way. Student debt abortion, the wall all mean something to someone. But we need to support small business and the American people.

Corona is a crisis not faced in 100 years. We need to work together.

Other things in the House bill:

Carlson further criticized a provision in Pelosi's bill that would require every corporation that received coronavirus aid to have officers and a budget dedicated to diversity and inclusion initiatives for a minimum of five years.

...

"In all, this [House] bill uses the word 'diverse' or 'diversity' more than 60 times," Carlson went on. "What does that have to do with the pandemic that might kill you? Not one thing."...

Pelosi's bill also allocates $300 million for the hiring of experts to manage coronavirus preparation and response, but "instead of looking for the most qualified people at a time of national emergency, the only criteria right now orders employees be chosen on the basis of their race and disability status," Carlson explained.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker...mocrats-pelosi


There's $35 million for JFK Center, hundreds of millions for National Endowment of the Arts and other such groups. Obamaphones, you name it. Yeah, we all believe this is about more funding for hospitals and the workers of America. Uh huh.

Yeah, this is all fine. Just normal stuff while the country is almost entirely shut down facing a 100 year pandemic. Totally OK. Nothing to see here.

but congress did pass a meaningless bipartisan resolution condemning China! Congrats to those hardworking folks in Washington DC who are guaranteed a job and most importantly a paycheck while they play politics with other peoples well fare. I mean if you can get same day voter registration, free phones and abortion funding, why not so long as we get a resolution to condemn China for the Kung Flu

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

Again, this is much ado about nothing. It’s going to pass.

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No argument from me on this. The only problem is America will remember in their time of need the Dems were choosing to negotiate. Bad look for Pelosi. I’m glad she found her prayer beads. Maybe God will turn her heart.

About the only stipulation I could see agreement from both sides on regarding helping business/corporations is that jobs will not move off shore and you cannot participate in stock buy backs. Airlines have been in the midst of stock buy backs for some time now.
I’d hope the government learned its lesson with GM in 2008 and not repeating the same mistake of bailing out an entity that doesn’t benefit the guy who held a job with said corporation.

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I’m glad she found her prayer beads.

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:sHa_clap2:

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

Again, this is much ado about nothing. It’s going to pass.

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Let me tell you about why this is absolutely positively NOT "much ado about nothing".

I have 10 full time employees. I'm facing laying them all off THIS WEEK or I start going in the hole really fast.

Guess what? The answers for what I can do are IN THIS BILL. They have SBA funding in it to provide forgivable loans to help pay payroll and worker's comp etc. The goal is to not put everyone on unemployment but directly fund small businesses to be able to retain their employees.

So here I sit. How long can I hold out before I have to lay everyone off while I wait for help and answers that are in this bill?

So sorry, but the GOP isn't lying. EVERY DAY THIS WAITS PEOPLE ARE LOSING THEIR JOBS UNNECESSARILY. EVERY DAY. This will already take 1-2 weeks to fully implement at a minimum, so every day is crucial.

So to be blunt, your answer is dead wrong. This delay for their political stunts is directly hurting Americans.

I have to look my people in the eye every day and tell them I'm doing my best to hold onto the their jobs. The relief in Phase III would MAYBE let me keep everyone employed for at least 8 weeks ( that's what's in the bill) and ride through this. It is critical to keeping this economy in stasis instead of freefall.

And I'm waiting for answers so the Dems can push through same day voter registration and mandatory diversity officers.

Yes I'm mad. I have people to care for, people with families and bills who trust me to run this business and provide for their jobs.

And the Democrats are fucking around while we twist in the wind.

If there's a hell I hope there's a special section reserved for politicians who do these things in times of real crisis.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to go back to finding the money to meet payroll and try to hold out until this bill goes through and I wait 96 hours (per Andy barr's office) for it to implement at the SBA and then wait to see if I qualify.

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Originally Posted by MickintheHam

No argument from me on this. The only problem is America will remember in their time of need the Dems were choosing to negotiate. Bad look for Pelosi. I’m glad she found her prayer beads. Maybe God will turn her heart.

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See my post above. It's a hell of a lot to do with everything.

The fact that it will eventually pass still means, every day, businesses pushing people to unemployment that could have been kept on payroll. EVERY DAY.

Should have passed yesterday. Now maybe today.

And look at the markets. Just on hopes this thing goes through they are going up.

All markets are really based on confidence, not P/E ratios. That's a fantasy. The more this crap happens the less inherent confidence people will have in the ability of the government to respond, and that will inherently hurt the recovery.

This is real, and it has consequences. It has direct consequences with the bill, and it has consequences in the ability of Americans to a) believe in their future recovery, and b) to pull together and set politics aside.

This does nothing but further fuel the divisions of this nation. At a time when the American PEOPLE are coming together regardless of race or religion to just help one another the Democratic leadership has seen fit to find the biggest f-ing wedge they could and just drive it right back in place.

We do agree that I hope the people remember this action. This is despicable. It's lower than low politically. You simply do not do this in a war footing situation.

Fortunately I no longer have to worry about payroll but do know that we are stopping all nonessential staff (grooming, boarding/kennel) across the corporation (that is roughly 150 clinics, which probably means 400-500 employees). Time off is going as PTO (paid time off aka vacation time). Those without PTO are SOL. If you have a Dr note saying you are either positive or under quarantine then it goes under the COVID funding. For me, selfishly, it has zero effect because I am busy and making money per commission. However the employees are not too happy, and rightly so. So while the jaggoffs in Washington who where elected to "do the people's business" pull this kind of crap, the electorate will take notice. IMO they should have been doing something in December, Jan and Feb to get ready but instead they were either trying to impeach the President or defending the President. Would have been nice to develop a plan back then, huh?

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Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof

About the only stipulation I could see agreement from both sides on regarding helping business/corporations is that jobs will not move off shore and you cannot participate in stock buy backs. Airlines have been in the midst of stock buy backs for some time now.
I’d hope the government learned its lesson with GM in 2008 and not repeating the same mistake of bailing out an entity that doesn’t benefit the guy who held a job with said corporation.

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All those currently working for GM would disagree. Those bailouts were by and large paid back. It allowed the companies to stay solvent. For some reason "big business" is bad despite employing and paying thousands of people. For some reason its assumed that a big business can support itself and employees for long duration shutdowns. But GM, or Delta, or Carnival Cruiselines, or Disney, etc... having to layoff THOUSANDS of people has a hug huge affect. To be honest, from a financial aspect, it would be wiser to float loans to large businesses that will pay them back vs giveaways that the gov't never recoups

PS: I wasn't for the 2008 bailouts. Much of that was due to bad business practices, and I am all for private commerce where those who do well succeed and those who don't fail. The current situation is 100% different circumstances.