Can we all agree Ocasio-Cortez is fencepost dumb or nuts?

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Originally Posted by UKHistory

She is also an American. I don’t agree with her. I am not a fan. But she is an American and a human being.

Trump is the single worst defender of Christianity, family values, love of country and the American way of life I have ever seen.

Telling AOC and the other women to leave the country is lacking all class.

I dont agree with them. I don’t particularly like them. But to be told by the president to leave the US and go back where you came from.

Wow.

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And so is Trump. He is not a Russian plant or operative despite what the media and liberal shout 24/7/365. See its OK to call Trump a traitor or unAmerican but dare him to do it to somebody who does nothing but attack him and call him Putin's puppet and suddenly its an issue. Trump is LITERALLY being called not just not an American but a traitor to this country.

I would also take exception to family values, love of country and the American way of life statement. I don't think post birth abortion is "family values"--something the left advocates. Nor do I believe that it is a particularly Christian belief. He constantly defends Love of Country. In fact that was the entire point of the most recent tweet. Same with his stance on respecting the flag/non kneeling. As for American way of life... not sure where socialism fits in the American way of life scheme. For me, the American way of life is I am responsible for myself and my family. That isn't the governments job.

Because the president, when elected, is elected to represent us all, not to disrespect a majority of people, which over time he has clearly and willfully done. If you refuse to see the difference and divert the discussion so no defense of the presidents actions are needed, the discussion is moot
Do all Republican senators and representatives represent your views, and do you respect the views and ethics of them all?

The disrespect shown here for the former president far, far exceeds anything said about the current one on this site. I don’t answer for other mediums.

And I did not attack your opinion. Either you support what he says and does or you don’t.

You make yourself perfectly clear as do I.

And I concur with Doc's last assertion 100%.
Trump is NOT the demon many of the leftists try to make him out to be. And, if I'm reading the signs correctly, many of the leftists in love with Obama are fixing to find out just what a bad guy he really is. So, stand by to stand by, because a lot of people are getting ready to be severely butthurt after the Barr & Horowitz investigations are concluded.

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Originally Posted by kingcat

Because the president is elected to represent us all, not to disrespect a majority of people. If you refuse to see the difference and divert the discussion so no defense of the presidents actions are needed, the discussion is moot
Do all Republican senators and representatives represent your views, and do you respect the views and ethics of them all?

The disrespect shown here for the former president far, far exceeds anything said about the current one on this site. I don’t answer for other mediums.

And I did not attack your opinion. Either you support what he says and does or you don’t. You make yourself perfectly clear as do I.

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Sorry, but not even close how Obama was treated (and I do see the disclaimer "ON THIS SITE"...that is a cop out IMO. Go to a liberal leaning site and see who was treated disrespectfully. I make no bones that the posters here are more conservative/liberitarian, thus are going to have a slant that direction. Still, I don't think "disrespectfully" is how Obama was treated here). Obama was never called a MFer, nor did elected congress people spend 2 1/2 years trying to throw him out of office. He wasn't ROUTINELY called a traitor, rapist, misogynist, Nazi, white supremacist or any of dozens of things Trump has been called.

Getting back to the American Way of Life comment. I always pictured the American way of life to be something where we respect the results of an election. If you don't like the results...tough. If you don't like them then vote in 2 or 4 years. To me, that concept is unequivocally American. Instead we have a left who is hell bent on overturning an election simply because they lost. I didn't like the results in 2008 or 2012, but you didn't see me or most republicans acting like a bunch of jackasses. So please don't tell that it is Trump that is threatening the American system when a large segment of the democratic party is using every measure to reverse the choice of the people per our Constitution. That is where your threat to the American way is.

I also believe the American way is for citizens and citizen alone to vote and elect our representatives, not illegal immigrants. Failure to do so is a far greater threat to the American system than any tweet that Tumps makes.

I always pictured the American way of life as following the laws of the land...ALL the laws of the land. And if you don't like the laws then they need to be changed. Not the selective enforcement we saw in the past. Yet Trump enforcing the laws implemented by Congress somehow threatens the American system?

Likewise, if Trump publicly (or privately) came out and told people how to avoid the law....something democrats do in Sanctuary Cities as well as how to evade arrest in the round up of people who have been told by Judges that they need to leave this country, he would be charge with and guilty of OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. Yet for the left, this practice is not an issue. So much for the American way of life, unless we believe in one set of rules for some and other for others?

To me, using the IRS against conservatives was far worse than anything Trump ever did or tweeted. Using a gov't agency against the people based on political affiliation is certainly not the American way of life IMO. But then that is just me.

I know many people who claimed Obama would be the end of democracy. I knew that was folly, and those who stated so were over-reactionaries. No different under Trump. Those who don't agree will cry "end of this nation" with the same tone and vigor. Somehow we survived Obama, and will somehow survive Trump.

In short, I take it that means you at least sympathize if not agree with the President’s tweet.
It is a simple, strait forward discussion of a simple to understand statement by the president.

Imo, you defend the indefensible. And I don’t mean to offend you.

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Originally Posted by kingcat

In short, I take it that means you at least sympathize if not agree with the President’s tweet.
It is a simple, strait forward discussion of a simple to understand statement by the president.

Imo, you defend the indefensible. And I don’t mean to offend you.

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Telling someone that if they don’t like it here to go somewhere else isn’t racists, nor is it that big a deal.

What I find more disturbing is someone being given an opportunity to denounce al Qaida and declining to do so.

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Originally Posted by KeithKSR

Telling someone that if they don’t like it here to go somewhere else isn’t racists, nor is it that big a deal.

What I find more disturbing is someone being given an opportunity to denounce al Qaida and declining to do so.

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I believe you are in a huge minority. Joined by those who don’t care if it is racist or not, and those who are racist themselves, and many who would defend the president no matter what he may do or say.

There’s not much more to be said from my perspective.

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Originally Posted by kingcat

In short, I take it that means you at least sympathize if not agree with the President’s tweet.
It is a simple, strait forward discussion of a simple to understand statement by the president.

Imo, you defend the indefensible. And I don’t mean to offend you.

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No offense taken..

In short, I am tired of ONE STANDARD being applied to the President and another to those in Congress. The same standard should be applied to both. If Trump called Talib a MFer, I would not be fine with that. If Trump made truly anti-Semitic remarks (not frabricated ones), I would not be fine with that. If Trump told individuals who were in violation of the law how to evade capture, I would not be fine with that.

Personally his statement does not bother me one bit. I don't have an opinion on whether or not I agree with it. My view is tainted by disgust for the manner in which the squad ( :671: I prefer the "moronic 4") antagonize then play the victim. Spend 2 years calling him every name in the book then cry like little ####### when he comes back at you. BOO HOO.

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Originally Posted by kingcat

I believe you are in a huge minority. Joined by those who don’t care if it is racist or not, and those who are racist themselves, and many who would defend the president no matter what he may do or say.

There’s not much more to be said from my perspective.

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I don't believe he is in the minority at all. Personally I don't believe Trump is a racist. I believe he has been called it but have yet to see a single bit of evidence to support it. Because when you disagree, the easiest thing to do is call the other side "racist". Hell, even the democrats are doing that to within their party.

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Originally Posted by kingcat

In short, I take it that means you at least sympathize if not agree with the President’s tweet.
It is a simple, strait forward discussion of a simple to understand statement by the president.

Imo, you defend the indefensible. And I don’t mean to offend you.

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Sorry kingcat, but what President Trump said is no different than what the conservatives in the '60's said to the Vietnam war protesters back in those days.
Very little difference, as a matter of fact. And just as it was back then, it doesn't matter "who" says it, because to be able to say it in dissent is an American citizen's Constitutional right. So, in this regard, I have to respectfully disagree with you.
Hey, I am not a fan of the current President, as an individual. I don't agree with some things that he says or does, but I do agree with him on this, although I really believe he shouldn't say stuff like that out loud. And he has done a much, much better job up to this point than the previous resident of the White House did in his eight years of residing there. JMHO.

There’s a huge difference. Elect an Indian or a person of color and let him as representing the American people tell a group of Caucasian’s to go back to their witch hanging plague filled European countries, and see how that flies . Then add to that scenario a history of us being owned like livestock by the very ethnicity of that leader sho spake such a thing.

But I will also point out that I never mentioned the tweets as racist yet that is where the defense of the President started in our conversations. There are many points between outright racism and sound leadership that demand a reprimand by God fearing men and women
Yet there is no line apparently that this man can’t cross with his followers. He has even said as much.

And I don’t count everyone who takes an opposite view as a “follower”. But there are many that fall into that category if one will look closely and fairly at the situation. I have friend who is now a faithful Q follower and the size and depravity of that group is overwhelming. Last week he informed that it had been proven there was a giant Q at the end of every rainbow but the Queen and the Obamas were forcing the proof withheld from the population
Before anyone laughs at that, take a look the number of followers who believe in that cause and that the Jews are the enemy of all society. And that the alien from the future was here to assure Trump gets to the bottom of the shadow government.

It is Supreme Idiocy with the support of the White House. And it is being perpetrated on many levels

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Originally Posted by kingcat

Because the president, when elected, is elected to represent us all, not to disrespect a majority of people, which over time he has clearly and willfully done.

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"You didn't build that" was beyond disrespectful to me and those who work to build their own businesses, but I don't recall people being too upset about it when it didn't call them out.

As for this notion the President should "represent us all", who was it that, when faced with that claim said "elections have consequences" in his dismissal of the opposing viewpoint?

it was OK when that President was implementing an agenda that disrespected a lot of Americans, but now it's not OK when that goes the other way?

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Originally Posted by kingcat

In short, I take it that means you at least sympathize if not agree with the President’s tweet.
It is a simple, strait forward discussion of a simple to understand statement by the president.

Imo, you defend the indefensible. And I don’t mean to offend you.

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Do you know what he actually tweeted?

here's the relevant part:


"Why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done. These places need your help badly, you can't leave fast enough."


And there's more. It was a pretty long statement really.

Is that "simple"? To me it's pointing out that their corrupt, socialist/communist ideology has failed everywhere else and their attempt to drag out country down to their level should be rejected.

It was a dumb way to put it IMO, but that's not exactly surprising for Trump. He tweets lots of absurd, over the top stuff. He loves trolling. I think it's a mistake, but he loves it and it clearly won't stop.

"America Love it or Leave it" is a decades long saying that has been used by a TON of politicians and others, and they weren't considered racists for it. Now it's apparently racist, along with wanting an actual immigration law of some kind.

Trump can be a complete ass, but as Doc said it's OK for senior politicians to call him a Traitor, a Russian spy, a Nazi, etc. but suddenly his comments are over the top and out of line?

Sorry, but in this mud slinging fest Trump has gotten more than he's dished out. I'm tired of the mud, but let's not pretend he's not got it slung at him by the truckload on a daily basis, and things just as negative as his tweet.

Yes AOC is an American. So is Trump, yet you and others even on here have said as much that he's not, that he's a Russian spy and a traitor, right? So your calling a fellow American a Traitor without any proof whatsoever is OK, but telling AOC to leave and go fix some other country and then come back is worse? Or is it just b/c he's President and he can't behave like AOC and Omar have towards him?

I won't defend his over the top behavior, never have and won't now. It's absurd and boorish and childish. But it's unfair to act like he's crossed some new line here that wasn't crossed long ago in the attacks and accusations and false claims leveled at him by so many. We spent two years checking out many of those claims and they turned out to be completely false, yet they are still made against him without apology.

It's ugly right now, but neither side is backing down. And as long as we have sitting Congressmen proposing laws that will set up a federal agency to approve our private travel plans I guarantee you it's going to get even more ugly b/c now we're fighting for the soul of this country.

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

"You didn't build that" was beyond disrespectful to me and those who work to build their own businesses, but I don't recall people being too upset about it when it didn't call them out.

As for this notion the President should "represent us all", who was it that, when faced with that claim said "elections have consequences" in his dismissal of the opposing viewpoint?

it was OK when that President was implementing an agenda that disrespected a lot of Americans, but now it's not OK when that goes the other way?

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Not only that but why is it that the elected President has one level that he must stay on but congress(wo)men have a different one? its OK for elected officials to call the president illegitimate, racist, nazi, etc.... but the President saying "love it or leave it" is somehow not representing the people? Folks can claim I'm a Trump supporter all they want. Like the chant of "racism", saying it does not make it so. There are a multitude of things about Trump I don't like. I feel comfortable saying you are the same. One thing you won't see me doing is teaching my kids to chant or sing the praises of Trump....unlike the democrats did with Obama. Kingcat is right, there is a difference. Only problem is the difference is one was called (and treated like) a messiah and one is called a Nazi.

and as long as we are being 100% accurate...Trump NEVER told them to go back to their countries. Sure the reference, and inference was there but he didn't say "Go back to Somilia, or Peurto Rico, etc..." He said ""Why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done. These places need your help badly, you can't leave fast enough." You ever been to the Bronx? You ever been to Detroit? Broken and crime infested certainly describes both.

Here is the entire tweet...cut and pasted

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....and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how....
32,006 replies 38,331 retweets 180,693 likes

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Nope, no go back to your country. GO BACK TO YOUR PLACES FROM WHICH YOU CAME.

See, words, like black lives and election consequences, do matter.

Does anyone honestly believe Trump meant go back to their district or what have you? Even our excellent lawyer friends here wouldn't dare attempt to twist his meaning that much. :trink39:

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Originally Posted by kingcat

Does anyone honestly believe Trump meant go back to their district or what have you? Even our excellent lawyer friends here wouldn't dare attempt to twist his meaning that much. :trink39:

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I don't know what he meant, but I do know what he tweeted. I leave it to liberals to determine how to define what he meant so it will be as racist as possible, so it fits their "impeach Trump" agenda. I do also know that he said for them to come back and show us how its done. So contrary to how it is portrayed, he did not even say "love it or leave it". He did not say get out of WHITE AMERICA or anything along those lines. I guess when it comes to accusing somebody of being a racist, I tend to error on the side of caution. Racism is not the first thing I think of when somebody disagrees with me, and before I label somebody with such a vile and disgusting adjective I want to be 100% certain.

See for me, that is the problem with defining everything with the race card. It eventually looses its effectiveness.

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GO BACK TO YOUR PLACES FROM WHICH YOU CAME.

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Thanks for beating me to that. I parse things out by the exact words used in my daily personal life, business life, and my fun time life here. I see what was said and go from there. I do not think I am wise enough to see into the mind of another and know what they meant because they left out a word or two that I thank they would have said if they had thought to do so.

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Does anyone honestly believe Trump meant go back to their district or what have you? Even our excellent lawyer friends here wouldn't dare attempt to twist his meaning that much.

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As you know I am not a lawyer and sometimes take issue with the way they think but still value their input and consider them friends.

If they want to read his exact words and put their own spin on them then that is fine by me, but honest to God, my first thought when I read the words was he was telling them to leave Washington and go back to New York, Minneapolis, and wherever the other two are from and fix the mess they left behind, and once they got that taken care of to come back to DC and return to being a part of the US congress. Nothing more and nothing less. I guess that I could have looked at the 4 of them and immediately assumed it was a sexist comment, but I did not so shame on me.

The president followed that tweet with other statements clarifying what he meant. I just heard him five minutes ago discussing it with reporters and he stated he meant if they don't love this country go back to the one they came from.

The president followed that tweet with other statements clarifying what he meant. I just heard him five minutes ago discussing it with reporters and he stated he meant if they don't love this country go back to the one they came from, or just leave it.
That's pretty clear. as to what locations he was suggesting.

It seems everyone is pretty entrenched in their support for his tweet here.
I don't, and I agreed with our friend History's opinion.

The love it or leave it mantra, which I get and get strongly about say the US flag of the revolutionary war era, is an honest reaction

Not normally a way to learn, grow or compromise.

Telling people to leave the US and go back to where they came from is wrong when said to Americans. And if you aren’t saying it to Americans of Irish or Italian descent and just non white is racist.

I don’t agree with the squad much. Don’t like them. But all are Americans. Three of them were born here. The other came here as a child.

If trump had just said love it or leave it-ignoring his American Carnage speech that was the most depressing inauguration speech I can recall-fine. It is not productive and demands unquestioning blind loyalty to authority which by its nature is as American vodka and black bread.

Trump specifically urged them to go back to wheee they came from and improve those countries. That is bullshit.

I don’t think the squad has good ideas or the experience to get things done In Congress.

But they are Americans. Criticize their ideas. But threatening photoshopped porn and telling them to leave the country is bush league.

Also some folks say trump is being held to a double standard. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Obama said stupid things. Insulting things. Hell he insulted UK in 2012 and 2013 during the NCAA champ WH meetings

Just because Harry Reid was a dick or Nancy Pelosi has been awful, that doesn’t mean trump can behave as badly.

Hell he should and they all should try to put the country over cheap shots and personal wealth.

But the president of the US, the commander our armed forces should be held to a higher standard than a Congresswoman.

I can’t show respect to a man that wipes his ass with the Constitution and the Bible on a daily basis.

There is not a lot to say good about the squad but even less about Trump.

It works both ways....... and I sense a Trump is playing Congressional Dems like a fiddle because he is making these 4 congresswoman the face of the party he is running against. The bad part is it is being bought hook, line and sinker by the left.

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Originally Posted by UKHistory

The love it or leave it mantra, which I get and get strongly about say the US flag of the revolutionary war era, is an honest reaction

Not normally a way to learn, grow or compromise.

Telling people to leave the US and go back to where they came from is wrong when said to Americans. And if you aren’t saying it to Americans of Irish or Italian descent and just non white is racist.

I don’t agree with the squad much. Don’t like them. But all are Americans. Three of them were born here. The other came here as a child.

If trump had just said love it or leave it-ignoring his American Carnage speech that was the most depressing inauguration speech I can recall-fine. It is not productive and demands unquestioning blind loyalty to authority which by its nature is as American vodka and black bread.

Trump specifically urged them to go back to wheee they came from and improve those countries. That is bullshit.

I don’t think the squad has good ideas or the experience to get things done In Congress.

But they are Americans. Criticize their ideas. But threatening photoshopped porn and telling them to leave the country is bush league.

Also some folks say trump is being held to a double standard. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Obama said stupid things. Insulting things. Hell he insulted UK in 2012 and 2013 during the NCAA champ WH meetings

Just because Harry Reid was a dick or Nancy Pelosi has been awful, that doesn’t mean trump can behave as badly.

Hell he should and they all should try to put the country over cheap shots and personal wealth.

But the president of the US, the commander our armed forces should be held to a higher standard than a Congresswoman.

I can’t show respect to a man that wipes his ass with the Constitution and the Bible on a daily basis.

There is not a lot to say good about the squad but even less about Trump.

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Originally Posted by UKHistory

The love it or leave it mantra, which I get and get strongly about say the US flag of the revolutionary war era, is an honest reaction

Not normally a way to learn, grow or compromise.

Telling people to leave the US and go back to where they came from is wrong when said to Americans.

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At some level I agree with you, but at another I don't. Two parts (if you'll bear with me).

Part 1: Love it or leave it.

OK, that shouldn't apply to honest differences of opinion, but what if the person in question wants to fundamentally change the Great Experiment, and wants to remove individual liberty as the primary goal of this nation?

AOC has suggested we create a federal agency that will OK our private travel plans, regulate what we eat, etc. It's fundamentally anti-American. it wants to do away with individual liberty and the Constitution that protects it.

Should we compromise with that? How about we leave America as the one nation founded for the pursuit of life, liberty and property and if you can't accept that basic goal you go to ANY other place on the planet, b/c every other place on Earth does not see it that way so you have a ton of options.

I don't see that as an unfair position. Why should we eliminate the one place on Earth that is resreved for those who value their liberty more than their safety?


Part 2: Wrong when said to Americans


Is it wrong to accuse an American of being a Russian agent with no evidence whatsoever? To believe it in your heart as true despite no first hand knowledge and nothing more than innuendo and rumor?

That seems about as wrong as telling an American to pack a bag and get out to me.

What about accusing an American of being a Nazi? Of being as bad or worse than Hitler, a man who led to the deaths of tens of millions? Should an American endure those things?

I see a gaping double standard here. AOC can't be subjected to being told to pack up and get out if she wants to turn us into Venezuela, but Trump can be PRESUMED to be a traitor and a Hitler wannabe and that's not even worth a footnote.

So a duly elected President of the United States can be called illegitimate despite 60 million Americans voting for him, be accused of being a traitor with no proof, and compared to one of the most evil men in all human history, but let a few liberals be told to pack a bag and all hell breaks loose.

HUGE double standard guys. HUGE. Unreal in fact.

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Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof

It works both ways....... and I sense a Trump is playing Congressional Dems like a fiddle because he is making these 4 congresswoman the face of the party he is running against. The bad part is it is being bought hook, line and sinker by the left.

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IMO that's exactly what he's doing.

In his view the Pelosi/AOC feud is actually bad for him b/c Dems in swing areas can point to it and say "we're lot like AOC, we're standing up to her" etc.

By doing what he did now they're all in lock step again and those 4 are being featured, not Pelosi.

Will it work? I don't know, but I think Trump trolled them very intentionally in the middle of their feud and did it b/c he thinks it helps him for them to not feud but to keep painting the Squad as the face of the Democratic party.

I KNOW them being the face of the party helps him and the GOP, the question is if this helps accomplish making them the face of it.

You can only yell racist, nazi, Russian spy so many times and when it continues to come up empty that it loses its effect. Especially when legit racism pops up, it likely won’t get the response it deserves to get by the stupidity going on in the political environment. I’m no supporter of his by any means, but the standard is very double, if not worse for every action he takes in the press and by the regressive left. They end up proving his points by their stupid responses.
The left has become mindnumb to their language and their actions in combatting what Trump does, and says. He will continue to bait them because they ALWAYS bite on the bait. Quit it...let his words ring without a response and then he really, really looks stupid for saying it...

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

At some level I agree with you, but at another I don't. Two parts (if you'll bear with me).

Part 1: Love it or leave it.

OK, that shouldn't apply to honest differences of opinion, but what if the person in question wants to fundamentally change the Great Experiment, and wants to remove individual liberty as the primary goal of this nation?

AOC has suggested we create a federal agency that will OK our private travel plans, regulate what we eat, etc. It's fundamentally anti-American. it wants to do away with individual liberty and the Constitution that protects it.

Should we compromise with that? How about we leave America as the one nation founded for the pursuit of life, liberty and property and if you can't accept that basic goal you go to ANY other place on the planet, b/c every other place on Earth does not see it that way so you have a ton of options.

I don't see that as an unfair position. Why should we eliminate the one place on Earth that is resreved for those who value their liberty more than their safety?


Part 2: Wrong when said to Americans


Is it wrong to accuse an American of being a Russian agent with no evidence whatsoever? To believe it in your heart as true despite no first hand knowledge and nothing more than innuendo and rumor?

That seems about as wrong as telling an American to pack a bag and get out to me.

What about accusing an American of being a Nazi? Of being as bad or worse than Hitler, a man who led to the deaths of tens of millions? Should an American endure those things?

I see a gaping double standard here. AOC can't be subjected to being told to pack up and get out if she wants to turn us into Venezuela, but Trump can be PRESUMED to be a traitor and a Hitler wannabe and that's not even worth a footnote.

So a duly elected President of the United States can be called illegitimate despite 60 million Americans voting for him, be accused of being a traitor with no proof, and compared to one of the most evil men in all human history, but let a few liberals be told to pack a bag and all hell breaks loose.

HUGE double standard guys. HUGE. Unreal in fact.

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Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof

You can only yell racist, nazi, Russian spy so many times and when it continues to come up empty that it loses its effect. Especially when legit racism pops up, it likely won’t get the response it deserves to get by the stupidity going on in the political environment. I’m no supporter of his by any means, but the standard is very double, if not worse for every action he takes in the press and by the regressive left. They end up proving his points by their stupid responses.
The left has become mindnumb to their language and their actions in combatting what Trump does, and says. He will continue to bait them because they ALWAYS bite on the bait. Quit it...let his words ring without a response and then he really, really looks stupid for saying it...

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One of my beefs concerning double standard is the Obstruction of Justice that the left is now hanging their hat on. They see attempting to defend yourself as obstruction. Trump won't release taxes? Obstruction of Justice. Won't release his private info? Obstruction of Justice. CONSIDERS removing Meuller ( but does not)? Obstruction of Justice. Yet mayors forewarn crimminals of impending ICE arrest so they can elude arrest is the moral thing to do. Smash a blackbeery and delete e-mails...old news

Call the president,who is also an Ameeican citizen, a traitor, a Nazi, a white supremist and a Russian operative and its fine but tell those folks who are doing it to go backnwhere you came from draws congressional sancture...because they are Americans

Like I said, their response points out the double standard and the toxic state that exits in political speak these days.
Pie in the sky is hoping the entire Congress is swept out on its ass to begin anew. It won’t happen, but it needs to.....

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Originally Posted by Doc

One of my beefs concerning double standard is the Obstruction of Justice that the left is now hanging their hat on. They see attempting to defend yourself as obstruction. Trump won't release taxes? Obstruction of Justice. Won't release his private info? Obstruction of Justice. CONSIDERS removing Meuller ( but does not)? Obstruction of Justice. Yet mayors forewarn crimminals of impending ICE arrest so they can elude arrest is the moral thing to do. Smash a blackbeery and delete e-mails...old news

Call the president,who is also an Ameeican citizen, a traitor, a Nazi, a white supremist and a Russian operative and its fine but tell those folks who are doing it to go backnwhere you came from draws congressional sancture...because they are Americans

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Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof

Like I said, their response points out the double standard and the toxic state that exits in political speak these days.
Pie in the sky is hoping the entire Congress is swept out on its ass to begin anew. It won’t happen, but it needs to.....

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If we could get 34 states to convene an Article V Convention of the States, and not have ANY POLITICIANS involved to foul up the process, that would be a very good place to begin to fix this mess.
Unfortunately, to get to that place the crooked & corrupt politicians are in the right-of-way, so arriving at that place, which the Founding Fathers saw fit to place in the Constitution for just such a time as this, is going to be very, very difficult.
There is another way to make BOTH SIDES come back to the mainstream middle, but I can't say THAT out loud and in public.
Because the extremists on both sides are completely out of control and are moving our Republic towards eventual destruction. And then, where will our world be? It definitely would not be a better place.

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

I just can't process this level of irony. I love irony, but this is coma level irony:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dem...-cortez-pelosi

Rep. William Lacy Clay, D-Mo., added to the mounting Democratic criticism of Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., reportedly calling her, her chief of staff, and the group Justice Democrats "juvenile."

"Their ignorance is beyond belief," Clay, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus, reportedly said while in the Speaker's Lobby.

His comments followed a feud between House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and freshman congresswomen, like Ocasio-Cortez, that involved racially-charged criticism.


Clay reportedly addressed the racial undertones of the criticisms coming from Ocasio-Cortez's office, saying it was "unbelievable" it would bring up that issue.


“What a weak argument, because you can’t get your way and because you’re getting pushback you resort to using the race card? Unbelievable. That’s unbelievable to me,” Clay reportedly said on Thursday.

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I was listening to a podcast this morning and the guest, A.B. Stoddard, said she'd heard a Congressman say you can be a workhorse or you can be a Congressional Kardashian. I thought that was a really good way of putting it, and it's pretty clear which one AOC is.

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

At some level I agree with you, but at another I don't. Two parts (if you'll bear with me).

Part 1: Love it or leave it.

OK, that shouldn't apply to honest differences of opinion, but what if the person in question wants to fundamentally change the Great Experiment, and wants to remove individual liberty as the primary goal of this nation?

AOC has suggested we create a federal agency that will OK our private travel plans, regulate what we eat, etc. It's fundamentally anti-American. it wants to do away with individual liberty and the Constitution that protects it.

Should we compromise with that? How about we leave America as the one nation founded for the pursuit of life, liberty and property and if you can't accept that basic goal you go to ANY other place on the planet, b/c every other place on Earth does not see it that way so you have a ton of options.

I don't see that as an unfair position. Why should we eliminate the one place on Earth that is resreved for those who value their liberty more than their safety?


Part 2: Wrong when said to Americans


Is it wrong to accuse an American of being a Russian agent with no evidence whatsoever? To believe it in your heart as true despite no first hand knowledge and nothing more than innuendo and rumor?

That seems about as wrong as telling an American to pack a bag and get out to me.

What about accusing an American of being a Nazi? Of being as bad or worse than Hitler, a man who led to the deaths of tens of millions? Should an American endure those things?

I see a gaping double standard here. AOC can't be subjected to being told to pack up and get out if she wants to turn us into Venezuela, but Trump can be PRESUMED to be a traitor and a Hitler wannabe and that's not even worth a footnote.

So a duly elected President of the United States can be called illegitimate despite 60 million Americans voting for him, be accused of being a traitor with no proof, and compared to one of the most evil men in all human history, but let a few liberals be told to pack a bag and all hell breaks loose.

HUGE double standard guys. HUGE. Unreal in fact.

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Let’s talk. Very thoughtful points.

1) Let’s take AOC and the proposed travel authorization agency. I have not heard that but will accept that it is a logical extension of her policies. My response is to fight them like Hell. Condemn her positions at that point as denying liberty UnConstitutional. And UnConstitutional is UnAmerican in my book

She will play the race card. This week she knows how to distinguish what a racist attack (trump) is over a strong rebuke that isn’t (Pelosi). In my view.

The congresswoman originally from Somalia made the anti Semitic comments about Israel. Criticizing Israel is another set of issues I will discuss when I can type with more than thumbs

With regards to the double standard. The President publicly making a statement is different than me on this platform or in my personal life. I say what I believe but I would be more careful if I had a different job

I can’t and don’t speak this way professionally (Hatch Act. )

That said accusing the president of conspiring or even coordinating with the Russians to win the election is a very serious statement. It is destructive and and about as an offensive thing one could say.

But trumps own words and behavior towards Russia and his treatment of NATO members disturbed me from the moment he spoke.

You can want better relations with Russia. You can be critical of NATO contributions. You can not do that while embracing the Russians and ignoring our own intel assessments that Putin has worked against our elections.

If you do all of those things I will say you are a traitor. If he is just stupid and is actively working against long term US interests I am wrong.

But I do think trump using his bully pulpit (he has the bully part down) to incite racist rebukes of Congress is disgraceful.

Attack their positions. Attack their experience. Attack the way they conduct themselves.

Do not say they should go back where they came from. America is their home. I’d love trump to go back home. Hell isnt accepting returns until the apocalypse.

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Originally Posted by KSRBEvans

I was listening to a podcast this morning and the guest, A.B. Stoddard, said she'd heard a Congressman say you can be a workhorse or you can be a Congressional Kardashian. I thought that was a really good way of putting it, and it's pretty clear which one AOC is.

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Let me guess...she has a giant ass

All I can say is your interpretation is askew in my opinion. You’re inferring assumptions that aren’t proven, and never will be other than in your mind. Trump’s race is green IMO. I find it laughable that the left hurls that tag at him. He sees green, money green. He wouldn’t have a Jewish son-in-law if he was truly racist.
His business dealings cross the spectrum of all races, but he is always favorable to the ones that produce “green”.
I seen a funny meme that stated Trump didn’t name anyone in his tweet...and 4 morons spoke up that it was them.
In a nutshell, that is how I see it too and the left always takes the bait.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UKHistory

Let’s talk. Very thoughtful points.

1) Let’s take AOC and the proposed travel authorization agency. I have not heard that but will accept that it is a logical extension of her policies. My response is to fight them like Hell. Condemn her positions at that point as denying liberty UnConstitutional. And UnConstitutional is UnAmerican in my book

She will play the race card. This week she knows how to distinguish what a racist attack (trump) is over a strong rebuke that isn’t (Pelosi). In my view.

The congresswoman originally from Somalia made the anti Semitic comments about Israel. Criticizing Israel is another set of issues I will discuss when I can type with more than thumbs

With regards to the double standard. The President publicly making a statement is different than me on this platform or in my personal life. I say what I believe but I would be more careful if I had a different job

I can’t and don’t speak this way professionally (Hatch Act. )

That said accusing the president of conspiring or even coordinating with the Russians to win the election is a very serious statement. It is destructive and and about as an offensive thing one could say.

But trumps own words and behavior towards Russia and his treatment of NATO members disturbed me from the moment he spoke.

You can want better relations with Russia. You can be critical of NATO contributions. You can not do that while embracing the Russians and ignoring our own intel assessments that Putin has worked against our elections.

If you do all of those things I will say you are a traitor. If he is just stupid and is actively working against long term US interests I am wrong.

But I do think trump using his bully pulpit (he has the bully part down) to incite racist rebukes of Congress is disgraceful.

Attack their positions. Attack their experience. Attack the way they conduct themselves.

Do not say they should go back where they came from. America is their home. I’d love trump to go back home. Hell isnt accepting returns until the apocalypse.

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We should have a discussion of each page of the Mueller report and the actual findings absent any media slant here.
It would be very enlightening

There were 117 contacts between the Trump campaign and Russian operatives. There was a call by our president for Russia to find and release emails which was done within hours of it.

These and other things are very disturbing and although absent any tangible proof of conspiracy, do point to collusion, which is not a crime.

Obstruction as far as I can tell is a given but can’t be used except in an impeachment hearing

The real double standard seems to be how such a discovery would have been viewed by my friends here were it the former POTUS.
Similar to the outrageous amount of time spent golfing discussed relative to the former administration, which was and is a silly accusation I agree.

It would be worth it to me and I’d agree to comment and add to such a discussion as best I can

I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve read a lot of legal opinion about this particular issue when the Mueller report was being dissected by legal minds. Obstruction, while possibly provable with what is given in the report has the legs cut out from under it because there is no original, trial/case provable crime that existed. So then it goes to impeachment which will fall along party lines, and no conviction. I’d like hear some of our legal folks opinion on it to be honest.

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Originally Posted by kingcat

Obstruction as far as I can tell is a given but can’t be used except in an impeachment hearing

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof

I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve read a lot of legal opinion about this particular issue when the Mueller report was being dissected by legal minds. Obstruction, while possibly provable with what is given in the report has the legs cut out from under it because there is no original, trial/case provable crime that existed. So then it goes to impeachment which will fall along party lines, and no conviction. I’d like hear some of our legal folks opinion on it to be honest.

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Yeah I’ve heard the same

But I believe the ethical aspect is just as important when talking about his office. It’s nothing to be proud of just to avoid prosecution on a technicality or executive priveledge

I suspect if this went to trial, it would come out moreso than it has prior that his campaign was spied upon. Then the previous administration has something to not be proud of on the hands and egg on their faces.
And the ultimate driver in all of this!? Crappy political candidates and crappy political policy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingcat

Yeah I’ve heard the same

But I believe the ethical aspect is just as important when talking about his office. It’s nothing to be proud of just to avoid prosecution on a technicality or executive priveledge

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Whatever truth is, is a good thing regardless. There is no ‘you shouldn’t have found out defense worth a nickel. Now if other shady things come to light that is also a good thing.

It may be none from the POTUS on down are worth a crap or deserving of high office. I get this feeling of hopelessness when I hear the ‘yeah but what about’ defense used by anyone as it relates to my country. In my 70’s vernacular, that’s an age old cop out

I would have no issue with the feds looking into Trump and his connection to Russia IF the same was done to the DNC. IMO, a meeting between Trumps underlings with Russians is far less of a concern to me than paying for and using a Russian created dossier. I fully expect that not everybody holds that same opinion, that believe the DNC did nothing wrong, and Trumps alleged infractions are far more nefarious. But then Hillary did not win the election, and the purpose of the Meuller report was to overturn an election.

Also rest assured that my feelings towards the ethical standards of Trump is no better or worse than the last administration. Eric Holder, BHO, etc were every bit as guilty of "obstruction of justice" when it comes to Fast and Furious as well as the IRS targeting conservatives. They used "executive privilege" and ignored subpoenas in order to prevent the exposure of these potentially illegal programs. And that does not even address the FISA court abuse. I would take the "impeach crowd" more seriously if they showed the same outrage 4 or 5 years ago.

Agree, however this is going to become our bad is not as bad as your bad is. To me, this Congress...the entire thing needs to be voted out and all the political power that exists within it.
The 2020 election is going to have to take care of the rest.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingcat

Whatever truth is, is a good thing regardless. There is no ‘you shouldn’t have found out defense worth a nickel. Now if other shady things come to light that is also a good thing.

It may be none from the POTUS on down are worth a crap or deserving of high office. I get this feeling of hopelessness when I hear the ‘yeah but what about’ defense used by anyone as it relates to my country. In my 70’s vernacular, that’s an age old cop out

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