4 more years

I have to disagree Brock. The most shining example I can give you is our neighbor to the north, Canada. 15 years ago the Canadian Dollar was .60 to $1 USD. Now the currencies are exchanged 1 for 1. Canada has debt, to the tune of $600 Billion currently, snowflakes compared to the blizzard that is innudating the US financially. 15 years ago the US national debt was under a trillion dollars, still within reach. that is a 40% devaluation against a less than powerhouse Canadian dollar.
I've traveled overseas in the 90's with General Motors and within the last 2 years for pleasure. US currency used to buy quite a bit overseas. Now US currency is a pitiful exchange to nearly all currencies except the Euro which is absorbing the French, Spanish, Greek and Italian floundering economies. The Euro is drowning faster than the US buck. Paying debt with watered currency is economic suicide. If Germany were to exit the Eurozone the others around it would collapse, or just maybe all of Western Europe will speak German......

Ben Franklin nailed it. "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."

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Originally Posted by kencat

Ben Franklin nailed it. "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."

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Excellent quote, and 230 years later, it is accurate today, if not more accurate to the state of affairs we face, than it was back then.

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Originally Posted by BigBlueBrock

In most situations, that is true. But because the currency of the United States is used by the worldwide economy as the reserve currency (i.e., countries all over the world buy VAST quantities of it because it is used for global trade pricing, such as oil), it doesn't hold true for us.

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You seem quite self assured and smug. What are your bona-fides?

Also, I must say, you're wading quite deeply into the weeds, here. I hope you know what you're doing.

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Originally Posted by HerbTarlek

You seem quite self assured and smug. What are your bona-fides?

Also, I must say, you're wading quite deeply into the weeds, here. I hope you know what you're doing.

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I'm glad you posted this. I wanted to post something similar, but since my posting history here is pretty limited, I thought it better to let some one else do it.

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Originally Posted by BigBlueBrock

We're not devaluing the currency. That's the point. There is incredible demand - worldwide - for the US dollar. Because EVERYTHING is purchased with US dollars. OPEC prices oil in US dollars. Exports are bought and sold in US dollars. Until demand for the dollar dries up, which is likely to NEVER happen, it is almost impossible for the United States to devalue its currency to the point of hyperinflation.

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This will take forever so I'll hit it in snippets. Will take probably 10 posts to rebut all of the stuff on the list here. Let's look at OPEC, and try to show a timeline of what is really happening.

Post 9/11, currency reserves were already being shifted by key nations in OPEC and othersThis is from 2004, showing "BIS data reveals that OPEC states have reduced their dollar deposits from 75 per cent in the third quarter of 2001 to 61.5 per cent today - a fall of of some 13 percentage points. "
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...6/211118.shtml

In 2007 there was a lot of buzz about decoupling the dollar from OPEC oil transactions.
http://seattletimes.com/html/nationw...83_opec19.html
http://gata.org/node/5755

Fortunately Saudi Arabia and other US allies took it off the table in 2007 and have slowed the process since that time: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=avaHAh3PQvUE

Saudi Arabia, the world's largest crude oil exporter, rejected a proposal by Iran and Venezuela to discuss the weak dollar at this weekend's OPEC summit in Riyadh, saying it didn't want the U.S. currency to ``collapse.'' Saudi Arabia won't discuss pricing oil in currencies other than the dollar, Saudi Foreign Minister said

By 2008 OPEC's Chairman was publicly saying they could switch to the Euro but will take time: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2008/0...82239220080208

Now move forward a year. Re OPEC. Iraq was already on the Euro before the war fwiw, but within a year of the OPEC statement with Iran lobbying for non-dollar transactions, OPEC allowed each nation to denominate as they chose. Iran, the 2nd largest producer, moved away from the dollar in 2009. They quote in Euros.
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500395_162-4057490.html

More recently we see the move away from dollar reserves, including by Saudi Arabia, continuing. http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=622626

The constantly declining value of the dollar and persisting economic crisis in the US has encouraged many countries to drop the currency in favor of a more stable one.

Saudi Arabia, South Korea, China, Venezuela, Sudan and Russia have taken steps to replace the US dollar in their foreign exchange reserves.

Basically our foreign policy ties is propping up the dollar through OPEC pricing among other things. Sans our military support of certain OPEC nations and Saudi Arabia's desire to spend money to prop up our currency the dollar would already be trashed. That's not limitless demand for the dollar, that's "we need to not be invaded so we'll have to keep using the dollar". Wholly different realities.

There is no such thing as limitless demand, it is always a function of supply and alternatives to satisfy the needs that create that demand. Micro economics 101. There will come a point when the OPEC nations either don't need our military support or lose so much money by tying to the dollar and losing money as the currency devalues between contract and delivery they'll make the move.

Anyway, that covers OPEC currency base. While many OPEC nations still price in dollars, others do not, and there is growing pressure to change to the Euro and even our OPEC allies are quietly hedging away from the dollar in their reserves. Rather than being a statement supporting this endless demand for dollars, it shows a growing potential crisis for the strength of the dollar.

OPEC actions prove the dollar is just the opposite of strong or impervious to devaluation, it shows it's gotten so bad OPEC is looking at other options despite our overwhelming military influence over those nations.

I'll hit the other devaluation stuff next. May be tomorrow.

Wampus, dont' ever feel like you can't weigh in, you have done well so far.

this is fun, like watching a guy bring a pop gun to a gunfight.

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Originally Posted by CattyWampus

I'm glad you posted this. I wanted to post something similar, but since my posting history here is pretty limited, I thought it better to let some one else do it.

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Pull CBBN off of him before he hurts him too badly.

nope, always love to see the pain on someone who is rather smug when they go against Citizen. I dont' need an economic course, just tune in here with Citizen plus I get a good history lesson to go with it.

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Originally Posted by blueboss

Pull CBBN off of him before he hurts him too badly.

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Originally Posted by jazyd

Wampus, dont' ever feel like you can't weigh in, you have done well so far.

this is fun, like watching a guy bring a pop gun to a gunfight.

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That is funny Skip, a friend of mine won a local long drive contest. So he advanced to regional competition and there he got smoked. One of his fellow competitors who had the lastest in long drive equipment, special type shaft, 50" long (legal limit), special head etc, etc., says to my friend "you brought a knife to a gun fight". True story.

Never trust a guy with a 'long shaft' LOL

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Originally Posted by cattails

That is funny Skip, a friend of mine won a local long drive contest. So he advanced to regional competition and there he got smoked. One of his fellow competitors who had the lastest in long drive equipment, special type shaft, 50" long (legal limit), special head etc, etc., says to my friend "you brought a knife to a gun fight". True story.

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Originally Posted by jazyd

Never trust a guy with a 'long shaft' LOL

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Are we still talking about drivers? Well on second thought there are a few different drivers. :tongue08:

The answer to why Obama got re-elected.

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