Coronavirus

I have been a huge fan of the way Governor Newsom has handled this thing from the beginning. And so are most Californians....his favorability is through the roof right now.
But I have a good friend on the city council here locally and he told me that word is that the Governor is going to close all beaches across the state on Friday.
The issue was that around here only Orange County beaches were open, so people flocked to them from SD and LA.

If he does, it will be a gigantic misstep imo. People will really be upset and he will lose a lot of the support he has garnered. People have overall really respected the quarantine and have abided by it. But that will not play well.
I get not wanting 30,000 people on one beach but the answer isn’t to close them all. It’s to open up more. There will end up being thousands of protesters and that’s a thousand times worse than people spread out on a beach.

And just like that it is leaking out everywhere:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/gavin-new...ate-parks-memo

This is very likely going to backfire. We have been on lockdown longer than any other state. It’s really wearing on people. And this will be salt in a sore wound.

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

And just like that it is leaking out everywhere:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/gavin-new...ate-parks-memo

This is very likely going to backfire. We have been on lockdown longer than any other state. It’s really wearing on people. And this will be salt in a sore wound.

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He's got the power. He can do as he damn well pleases. This may be a surprise to Californians, but to a lot of folks across the country, it is not. Why people in New York, Chicago, and California put up with the people they have elected is puzzling. Few people outside those areas see them as effective. We have our share of buffoons in Alabama, but they are smart enough not to run rough shod over peoples' individual liberties. Ma Ivey here knows she is on a short leash and she's trying desperately to get out of the mess she has created. She knows she is on borrowed time. Don't Tread on Me!

Every Governor has the power. It’s just unwise.
From a political and social standpoint.
I’m telling you now, those protests are about to get bigger and bigger.
City counsels are upset because their cities are losing a ton of money off of beach parking (seriously) and people are going to go stir crazy soon.
If you polled Californians, 90% would agree not opening movie theaters, etc. But closing all of the beaches is like sacrilege here. He will lose a lot of liberal support even.
Less, “Don’t tread on me” out here and more “don’t take my surfboard”.

I live in a beach community too. Collier County Florida just opened their beaches today to be in line with other counties surrounding doing the same. The natives were restless. Movies, dining out were all cost items. The beach wasn’t. It is free recreation....and one I the reasons I live here.

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

Every Governor has the power. It’s just unwise.
From a political and social standpoint.
I’m telling you now, those protests are about to get bigger and bigger.
City counsels are upset because their cities are losing a ton of money off of beach parking (seriously) and people are going to go stir crazy soon.
If you polled Californians, 90% would agree not opening movie theaters, etc. But closing all of the beaches is like sacrilege here. He will lose a lot of liberal support even.
Less, “Don’t tread on me” out here and more “don’t take my surfboard”.

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Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof

I live in a beach community too. Collier County Florida just opened their beaches today to be in line with other counties surrounding doing the same. The natives were restless. Movies, dining out were all cost items. The beach wasn’t. It is free recreation....and one I the reasons I live here.

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Exactly. And one of the safest places to be.

I’m being serious when I say this, but I have lived here for over 20 years. We go to the beach multiple times a week. All 4 of us surf. I have NEVER been to the beach here one time where my stuff was less than 6ft from someone else. Ever. If I saw that, I would turn around and go home. And that’s during the summer with millions of tourists in the state (and there are none now).
4th of July is the only time that might ever happen and I avoid it like the....well the Coronavirus. So does basically everyone else that lives here.

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

Exactly. And one of the safest places to be.

I’m being serious when I say this, but I have lived here for over 20 years. We go to the beach multiple times a week. All 4 of us surf. I have NEVER been to the beach here one time where my stuff was less than 6ft from someone else. Ever. If I saw that, I would turn around and go home. And that’s during the summer with millions of tourists in the state (and there are none now).
4th of July is the only time that might ever happen and I avoid it like the....well the Coronavirus. So does basically everyone else that lives here.

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While I can understand the logic behind it: people from diverse areas increases the risk of the infection becoming more widespread. That being said, I agree that the beach is one of the those places that should be reopened. It should be monitored heavily to ensure social distancing is occurring, but otherwise it is far safer than many places.

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Originally Posted by PedroDaGr8

While I can understand the logic behind it: people from diverse areas increases the risk of the infection becoming more widespread. That being said, I agree that the beach is one of the those places that should be reopened. It should be monitored heavily to ensure social distancing is occurring, but otherwise it is far safer than many places.

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Thankfully, he backed off. He only closed Orange County Beaches and left many state parks open etc. I expect him to open other beaches very very soon.

A lot of good questions in this article:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/lockdown-...152936053.html

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

Thankfully, he backed off. He only closed Orange County Beaches and left many state parks open etc. I expect him to open other beaches very very soon.

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Most.of the parks here have remained open, wisely. I have long been a propponent of being outside despite the call for sheltering. Now being outdoors is suddenly the recommendation. Funny how the right approach changes.

Most people get it. Don't crowd. Going to a beach or park is fine so long as you keep a reasonable distance from others

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Originally Posted by PedroDaGr8

While I can understand the logic behind it: people from diverse areas increases the risk of the infection becoming more widespread. That being said, I agree that the beach is one of the those places that should be reopened. It should be monitored heavily to ensure social distancing is occurring, but otherwise it is far safer than many places.

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If Beaches are "relatively" safe then why is Michigan preventing people from going to their summer homes in small communities, or numerous states including Kentucky shutting down campgrounds and lakes?

That's the overreach that is causing these protests. Sure some people just think this is no big deal, there are those people of every political persuasion who are blissfully unaware of reality, but a lot of people have legitimate gripes about the priorities and balance and the overreach of many governors.

If beaches are safe then I can think of a lot of things that are pretty safe.

And I imagine it depends on who is going to the beach as to whether its safe. A gaggle of spring breakers for instance probably aren't very socially distanced. I presume that won't happen often but younger kids who would tend to go are also far more likely to not take this seriously bc they don't take much of anything seriously b/c they don't have a good notion of mortality yet.

And fwiw I think they probably should be open. As Doc said, being outside is far better than being inside if you're around other people. I'm OK with it, but I do think there are other examples that are pretty restrictive that are along the same vein.

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

Every Governor has the power. It’s just unwise. ”.

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How much power do they really have though? When challenged the governors often back down. Different states have backed down regarding church congregation. There was a case in Cincinnati where someone was on social media and imploring people to go party in the streets, a bunch of people did, they arrested him, were going to make an example out of him and low and behold, charges were dropped.

Here's an article on the issue, although most of these are businesses seeking relief.

Lawsuits Pile Up Against Coronavirus Lockdown Measures

Echoing many voices on the political right, Attorney General William Barr has signaled support for legal challenges, saying the Justice Department would consider filing statements of interest for some plaintiffs. The statements carry no force of law but are a powerful show of Trump administration backing.

“These are very, very burdensome impingements on liberty,” Mr. Barr told conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt on Tuesday. “We’re looking carefully at a number of these rules that are being put into place. And if we think one goes too far, we initially try to jawbone the governors into rolling them back or adjusting them. And if they’re not and people bring lawsuits, we file a statement of interest and side with the plaintiffs.”

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On Friday, Ms. Whitmer pulled back some of her previous order after legal challenges arose, allowing, for example, gardeners and landscapers to return to work.

A landscapers’ trade group had challenged Ms. Whitmer’s prohibition on hiring help to cut grass or trim hedges. The Michigan Nursery and Landscape Association in its lawsuit against the state said mowing grass and spreading fertilizer can be done safely by a single employee, risking less person-to-person interaction than activities that are allowed, like going to stores to buy beer.

U.S. District Judge Paul Maloney declined to immediately block Ms. Whitmer’s order, but he wrote that the plaintiffs have “a point that lawn care can largely be performed alone or while maintaining an appropriate social distance.”

On Friday, after the governor announced her more lenient policy, a lawyer for the landscaping association said it might still pursue damages.


I'm curious about the constitutionality of it all. I don't think the states will enforce this to the point of arresting individuals, other than a show of force arrest and then release. So it probably will not get challenged to the Supreme Court. Does a governor really have the ability to force someone to stay away from others, to stay home?

Great question. Maybe not. But they have the ability to shut down “State Beaches and State Parks” (which is what I was referring to).
Could a ticket etc be challenged in court? I’m sure it could.

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

Great question. Maybe not. But they have the ability to shut down “State Beaches and State Parks” (which is what I was referring to).
Could a ticket etc be challenged in court? I’m sure it could.

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C’mon Puma. Go to the beach. Take your surfboard. We’ll pass the hat here to defray your legal expenses. If Doc throws in his beer money, you could take it to the Supreme Court. Kavenaugh will take your side.

“We dare defend our rights!”

I agree with you on the State Parks and the governors decisions.

Interesingly, I looked up the stay at home orders for KY and CA.

Bashear "urged" residents to stay home.

Newsome wrote an Executive Order that made a violation a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of up to $1000 or up to 6 months in jail. Watch yourself!

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Originally Posted by MickintheHam

C’mon Puma. Go to the beach. Take your surfboard. We’ll pass the hat here to defray your legal expenses. If Doc throws in his beer money, you could take it to the Supreme Court. Kavenaugh will take your side.

“We dare defend our rights!”

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I am in

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Originally Posted by Doc

I am in

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Haha. I just want to sit outside and have a beer (or 7) with you two again.

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Originally Posted by Basket Case

I agree with you on the State Parks and the governors decisions.

Interesingly, I looked up the stay at home orders for KY and CA.

Bashear "urged" residents to stay home.

Newsome wrote an Executive Order that made a violation a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of up to $1000 or up to 6 months in jail. Watch yourself!

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Beshear has been very careful with his words from the beginning.

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

Haha. I just want to sit outside and have a beer (or 7) with you two again.

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We have to make a plan!

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Originally Posted by MickintheHam

We have to make a plan!

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I am in

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

Haha. I just want to sit outside and have a beer (or 7) with you two again.

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Yep

So did Newsom go ahead with the beach closure order? Seeing he released hard core sex offenders and then closed the beaches. Smooth move.

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

And just like that it is leaking out everywhere:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/gavin-new...ate-parks-memo

This is very likely going to backfire. We have been on lockdown longer than any other state. It’s really wearing on people. And this will be salt in a sore wound.

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Humans are social animals, we crave contact with others.

On some level a valid argument could be made that social distancing on a beach, soaking up all the warmth and UV light is going to be better to prevent the spread of the virus as opposed to sitting at home in an environment conducive to maintaining the virus.

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

So did Newsom go ahead with the beach closure order? Seeing he released hard core sex offenders and then closed the beaches. Smooth move.

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He backed off. He only closed it in Orange County (which wasn't popular there either...thus the protests today). It was a smart move (backing off).
He needs to lose this battle to win the war. As I said, people in California have been locked down longer than any other state. And people have done great with it. But take their beaches away...and you lose the crowd.

Same thing was at play here in Florida.

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

He backed off. He only closed it in Orange County (which wasn't popular there either...thus the protests today). It was a smart move (backing off).
He needs to lose this battle to win the war. As I said, people in California have been locked down longer than any other state. And people have done great with it. But take their beaches away...and you lose the crowd.

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This is really good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

What is wrong with this article?

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthca...rnd=1588469307

P.S. Not a gotcha question. I mean seriously, is anything wrong with this?

146 cases. 145 recovered. I dead. No new cases for more than a week. The curve is flat, zeroed out on the bottom of the graph. The goal of “flattening the curve” is complete. Plenty of room, now, in the hospital for new cases as we test ideas for
Getting back to a new normal.

Also, from out here in flyover country, New York city looks like a cesspool of filth and disease and govt incompetence.

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Originally Posted by bigsky

Also, from out here in flyover country, New York city looks like a cesspool of filth and disease and govt incompetence.

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I'm completely confident it's actually far worse than it appears.