OT: Jason Collins Announcement

Anything we do is by choice. However, we all have to deal with our choices. A person doesn’t have to get out of bed, eat or do anything but if he does he chooses to do so. A person’s life style is by choice. If it’s not then it is called rape, human trafficking or some other title. Being said he chooses his life style is a true statement, is it not?


There is no need for “Coming out” for any life style including drug abuse, alcoholism or a number of others. I don’t have to answer for anyone’s choices but my own. I really don’t want to know about anyone’s choices if they don’t affect me or my family. “Don’t ask; don’t tell” works for me.

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Originally Posted by Edward100

Anything we do is by choice. However, we all have to deal with our choices. A person doesn’t have to get out of bed, eat or do anything but if he does he chooses to do so. A person’s life style is by choice. If it’s not then it is called rape, human trafficking or some other title. Being said he chooses his life style is a true statement, is it not?


There is no need for “Coming out” for any life style including drug abuse, alcoholism or a number of others. I don’t have to answer for anyone’s choices but my own. I really don’t want to know about anyone’s choices if they don’t affect me or my family. “Don’t ask; don’t tell” works for me.

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This is all wrong.

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Originally Posted by bigsky

When did you "choose" to be a heterosexual?

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When I was a young lad and saw this,
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I don't think it is a choice, there could be a few but for 99% no, and I don't want to condemn them for it. Hard decision to do so but not nearly as hard as it would have been say his first year in the league and definitely not as hard as it would have been 30-40 years ago.

It is not a choice, period. This is something determined by genetics, and while I truly believe God has a hand in genetics, sexual orientation is determined by genetics.

Let me tell you a story about myself...I am adopted, and at the age of 30 I found my birth parents. When I met my birth mother and we talked about our lives and likes and dislikes, it became apparent to me that genetics have a HUGE factor in determining our lives. Why else is there is woman, who gave birth to me, but I never met for THIRTY years, so similar to myself. She is a history teacher, I came very, very close to becoming a history teacher, but I could get out of UK sooner with a business degree so I went the business route. We both like the same sports, we both have the same interest in history outside our professions, we both read the same authors, we are both very musical, we both love to debate and discuss political and sports issues, and there are tons of other things that we are almost exactly alike. So how in the heck did this happen? Is is coincidence? Was it environment? I don't think so, I grew up in a house where no one was musical, dad was a doctor, mom a homemaker, no one was really that interested in reading for fun, so how would my environment make me who I am? As far as my birth father goes my personality is almost exactly like his, and again environmentally speaking I grew up mostly with my mother, who was a very outgoing Lucielle Ball type personallity, but I am a quiet, reserved person.

So imho, I view so much of myself as determined by genetics, that I just can't believe that something so huge as to sexual orientation is a true "choice", so many trivial things had to have been genetics in my case, that I just can't see anything that isn't trivial about ourselves being a "choice"

I guess to me the only "choice" you have with sexual orientation is you could "choose" to ignore an important part of yourself, but in all reality you are what your body and your mind tells you no matter how you act. To be forced by relationships, religion or society to feel you should "choose" to be what you are not is deplorable to me.

I don't ever visit this particular board, but since I am now engaged in the conversation (from before it was moved) I simply want to add one thing. I hope this discussion does not become a religious one. I say that because when it does, it tends to go downhill very, very quickly. It also tends to get more passionate and hurtful. I know some on here are Christians, and many are not. I simply want to say one thing that there is no way I could defend or explain on a forum (I could in person):
You can absolutely be a Christian and believe the Bible and not hate gay people (not that any on here do), be against gay marriage, or think its a choice (or even a "sin" for that matter). Many people believe that is not a possibility, but it absolutely is.
Just wanted to throw that out there...carry on.

Thanks for the added input Puma. To take it just a step farther......some on here are Christians, and many are not.....as you said. I wonder how many on here (I have no idea nor care either way) are gay and still not out? Could any of our words be hurtful to them and make them more reclusive? Perhaps someone on here looks at Jason Collins as "the" person to make them stand up and speak up for themselves within their lives.

Let's remember our respect for each other and what brings us together as our own little crazy ass community.

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

I don't ever visit this particular board, but since I am now engaged in the conversation (from before it was moved) I simply want to add one thing. I hope this discussion does not become a religious one. I say that because when it does, it tends to go downhill very, very quickly. It also tends to get more passionate and hurtful. I know some on here are Christians, and many are not. I simply want to say one thing that there is no way I could defend or explain on a forum (I could in person):
You can absolutely be a Christian and believe the Bible and not hate gay people (not that any on here do), be against gay marriage, or think its a choice (or even a "sin" for that matter). Many people believe that is not a possibility, but it absolutely is.
Just wanted to throw that out there...carry on.

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Originally Posted by CGWildcat

Thanks for the added input Puma. To take it just a step farther......some on here are Christians, and many are not.....as you said. I wonder how many on here (I have no idea nor care either way) are gay and still not out? Could any of our words be hurtful to them and make them more reclusive? Perhaps someone on here looks at Jason Collins as "the" person to make them stand up and speak up for themselves within their lives.

Let's remember our respect for each other and what brings us together as our own little crazy ass community.

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It's a dead mortal lock some of our members are gay, and some are not public about it. All but a given statistically.

As for Collins, it's "brave" in that within the profession he works I guarantee there is some strong anti-homosexual sentiment, but obviously outside of that interaction the broader media and such will laud him so he doesn't face complete castigation. So I see it as a mixed bag in terms of "bravery". As for purpose I can't speak to that, only he can.

Whether or not one is genetically determined to be something does not necessarily mean they have become such until they act upon it. I do not know this but I would assume there are many Christian people genetically inclined to be homosexuals that have fought the urge because they are committed to their religion, and I would assume those individuals do not want to be called homosexual because they've not acted upon it. Does the mere suppressed desire make them homosexuals? I lived with two twin brothers in college, total opposites and one just came out finally after years of hiding it. Thought that was worth mentioning because its similar to this story. It's a tough situation, even when you aren't in the spotlight. So what do you people say, are you a homosexual if you are not acting on it? Ill hang up and listen I'm really interested in the response because most of the above argument is based upon this answer and I'm not sure we've answered.

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Originally Posted by Crazy4Blue

I don't understand why anyone needs to "come out". You never hear anyone come out and announce they are straight. I could be wrong but it always appears to be an agenda thing when this occurs.

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I'd decided to confess to all on this site that I am ........... heterosexual. Yes, I love a woman with a nice butt and big ol' ######. Please don't hate on me for that.

As for Jason Collins, put me in the category that "couldn't not care less".

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Originally Posted by StuBleedsBlue2

Talk to gay people and ask them, it will make a whole lot of sense.

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I don't know if I know any "gay people". I'm sure I do, I'm sure I've talked to them but their sexuality has never come up.

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Originally Posted by CGWildcat

Last thing, Marina Navratilova "came out" in 1981....Collins is 2nd.

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Several others have "come out". Johnny Weir for example. Here is a list from last year. Brittany Griner a few weeks ago along with several in the WNBA. Earliest reference I could find was Bill Tilden who won Wimbledon in the 20's.

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Originally Posted by Padukacat

Whether or not one is genetically determined to be something does not necessarily mean they have become such until they act upon it. I do not know this but I would assume there are many Christian people genetically inclined to be homosexuals that have fought the urge because they are committed to their religion, and I would assume those individuals do not want to be called homosexual because they've not acted upon it. Does the mere suppressed desire make them homosexuals? I lived with two twin brothers in college, total opposites and one just came out finally after years of hiding it. Thought that was worth mentioning because its similar to this story. It's a tough situation, even when you aren't in the spotlight. So what do you people say, are you a homosexual if you are not acting on it? Ill hang up and listen I'm really interested in the response because most of the above argument is based upon this answer and I'm not sure we've answered.

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If you are a man and are exclusively attracted to other men, then you are a homosexual regardless of whether or not you "suppress" your urges in order to conform to backwards religious intolerance.

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Originally Posted by BigBlueBrock

This is all wrong.

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Please explain that what we do is not by choice. Being forced to do something can’t be in the conversation because it doesn’t give you a choice. A person is shot by a drive-by shooter; the victim doesn’t have a choice. Robbing a bank does give a person a choice to the robber. He has to make the choice and has to live with the consequences. The man who kills the kids in the classroom did so by choice.


A person life style is by choice. If my dad was an alcoholic, does that mean I will be one, too? If my mother was a drug addict, does that mean I have no choice? If I lived in a slum, does that mean I can’t get out and better myself? Absolutely not!

Generics define many of our attributes but our life style is by choice. If not by choice then a person is likely to be in prison of a slave to someone.

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Originally Posted by Edward100

We all know this is a chosen life style by those who practice it. Why do people feel the need to “Come out” at all? I don’t condone being gay any quite frankly don’t want to know who is gay. The people involved know and that should be enough. There is no need to make a statement public or private.

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FACEPALM......That is all.

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

You can absolutely be a Christian and believe the Bible and not hate gay people

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Back in the day I worked in the restaurant and bar biz, most of my stints were behind the bar and on the beverage side. Not trying to stereotype but there were a lot of gay waiters on the food side.

A group of us employees at one particular restaurant get together for brunch quarterly just to stay in touch, just a couple of weeks ago we met for brunch and of course there were a mix of both gays and straights. A conversation was started about the marriage debate and the general consensus amongst the gays was "who cares" - "quit be drama queens and be happy". They also touched on the coming out thing and it was more about being accepted/understood among family members and basically no one cared about what anybody else knows/thinks to make a statement. These guys are all professionals and make very good livings and are very comfortable in their own skin and can navigate just fine in a world with varying degrees of tolerance.

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Originally Posted by blueboss

Back in the day I worked in the restaurant and bar biz, most of my stints were behind the bar and on the beverage side. Not trying to stereotype but there were a lot of gay waiters on the food side.

A group of us employees at one particular restaurant get together for brunch quarterly just to stay in touch, just a couple of weeks ago we met for brunch and of course there were a mix of both gays and straights. A conversation was started about the marriage debate and the general consensus amongst the gays was "who cares" - "quit be drama queens and be happy". They also touched on the coming out thing and it was more about being accepted/understood among family members and basically no one cared about what anybody else knows/thinks to make a statement. These guys are all professionals and make very good livings and are very comfortable in their own skin and can navigate just fine in a world with varying degrees of tolerance.

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Exactly, their choice. There is no need to tell the world.

If I walked into a women's locker room and went into the showers and started showering with the women that were in there showering I would more than likely be arrested and at the very minimum be thrown out with force. What's the difference if a man that is attracted to men like I am attracted to women walks into a men's locker room and begins showering with other men?

Just a question......... I personally would feel as uncomfortable as I imagine a woman would feel if a guy walked into her shower.

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Originally Posted by Edward100

Please explain that what we do is not by choice.

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Because gay is not something you do...its something you are.
As Brock has already stated: people are not gay because of what they do, they are gay because of who they love, who they are attracted to, and how they feel. At least one of those is not a choice (I would argue more).
I have met several gay virgins. They "choose" not to date, have sex, etc. They don't do so because its wrong (someday they will). They do so because they are focused on work, school, etc. But they are absolutely gay. They would say they are gay. Because they are attracted to the same sex. They didn't choose that. Its just who they are. No more than you chose to be attracted to the opposite sex. You can choose not to date or have sex. That is your choice. But you didn't choose to be attracted to the opposite sex. You just were.

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Originally Posted by Edward100

There is no need to tell the world.

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If this debate was only about Jason Collins coming out in SI, then you could make an argument on either side of the debate imo of whether he should and what his motivation was. But its not. Other posters made statements about any gay person "coming out".
There is a huge difference in those two things. Jason Collins came out to the "world". You would have to ask him why he did that and what his motivation was.
But, 99% of gay people do not come out to the "world". They typically come out to close family and friends, as they should. And as I have stated before, the reason for that is very, very clear to me.

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Originally Posted by blueboss

If I walked into a women's locker room and went into the showers and started showering with the women that were in there showering I would more than likely be arrested and at the very minimum be thrown out with force. What's the difference if a man that is attracted to men like I am attracted to women walks into a men's locker room and begins showering with other men?

Just a question......... I personally would feel as uncomfortable as I imagine a woman would feel if a guy walked into her shower.

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The sexual dynamics of all-male locker rooms are completely different than theoretical coed locker rooms. Unless you mean to tell me male locker rooms aren't already one of the gayest places on the planet. I mean, they've been showering with him for years already and suddenly, now that they KNOW he's gay (if any of his teammates didn't already know), it's an issue? Please. Asking this question displays a fundamental misunderstanding of how human beings are around their own sex vs the opposite, at least as far as men's behavior goes.

That isn't to say that his teammates don't have a right to feel uncomfortable showering with him and if they CHOOSE not to do so, that's fine. But Collins shouldn't be forced to shower alone simply because he's now an outed homosexual. If his behavior remains within the limits of what already happens in men's locker rooms, then there shouldn't be an issue.

And if, one day, we as a society grow out of the current rape culture that has existed for decades, then you'll see coed locker rooms and showers. Unfortunately, we haven't gotten there as a society, yet.

My friend(s), I see we have different opinion on this subject. I will leave this conversation with this thought, “Each person will have to answer for the choices they make on any given subject throughout their life be it good, bad or otherwise. In the end we all reap what we sow be it good, bad or otherwise. Thank you and have a nice day.

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Originally Posted by Edward100

My friend(s), I see we have different opinion on this subject. I will leave this conversation with this thought, “Each person will have to answer for the choices they make on any given subject throughout their life be it good, bad or otherwise. In the end we all reap what we sow be it good, bad or otherwise. Thank you and have a nice day.

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What does this even mean?

In the end we're all dead.

Big Blue Brock, I’m implying that no matter what we do in life we have to live with the circumstances created by our actions/choices. To agree or disagree on any subject is everyone’s right. A man kills 23 girls and is caught. He is sentenced to be hung by the neck until dead. His actions/choices made by him merited the sentence he got. He has to be accountable for his actions/choices.

Sowing and reaping is a natural fact. You plant corn seeds and you harvest corn. You can’t plant corn seeds and expect grapes. The same principal can be applied to ANY action/choice. Weather we agree or disagree has nothing to do with this statement.

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Originally Posted by Edward100

Big Blue Brock, I’m implying that no matter what we do in life we have to live with the circumstances created by our actions/choices. To agree or disagree on any subject is everyone’s right. A man kills 23 girls and is caught. He is sentenced to be hung by the neck until dead. His actions/choices made by him merited the sentence he got. He has to be accountable for his actions/choices.

Sowing and reaping is a natural fact. You plant corn seeds and you harvest corn. You can’t plant corn seeds and expect grapes. The same principal can be applied to ANY action/choice. Weather we agree or disagree has nothing to do with this statement.

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That's all dandy. But what in the blue frick does any of that have to do with who a person likes to boff? Are you saying that having sex with those of your own gender is something for which a person would have to pay in the future? How? Why? Who is exacting a price for someone's sexuality in this scenario, pray tell?

But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

I'm a Christian and I'm afraid we've really missed the boat on this. We're supposed to be the salt of the earth through being the embodiment of those two verses. It is way too easy to condemn, judge, and legislate than love convincingly enough to make a difference in others' lives. I've been guilty of all of that and hypocritical at the same time. Jesus defined 'neighbor' as pretty much everybody and nothing at any time disqualifies. Loving means getting to know, without judgement or condemnation, caring, being patient, non-sexually affectionate (if that is your nature), finding common ground, making yourself approachable and available, careful not to hurt, and trying to put yourself in their position. All of this puts you in the position to allow others to see the peace that goes beyond their understanding and they would naturally ask you where it comes from. At that point you are free to share and explain. Understanding God's grace allows us to do these things from the heart and not worry about whatever response we may get in return because we are compelled to love and forgive just as God continues to love and forgive us.

More later...

Good post, badrose. I'm an agnostic theist, but if more Christians were like you and more interested in spreading the teachings of Christ (i.e., love, peace, good will, kindness, no judgment, etc), as opposed to the intolerance of the Old Testament, then we'd be in a much better place as a society.

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Originally Posted by badrose

But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

I'm a Christian and I'm afraid we've really missed the boat on this. We're supposed to be the salt of the earth through being the embodiment of those two verses. It is way too easy to condemn, judge, and legislate than love convincingly enough to make a difference in others' lives. I've been guilty of all of that and hypocritical at the same time. Jesus defined 'neighbor' as pretty much everybody and nothing at any time disqualifies. Loving means getting to know, without judgement or condemnation, caring, being patient, non-sexually affectionate (if that is your nature), finding common ground, making yourself approachable and available, careful not to hurt, and trying to put yourself in their position. All of this puts you in the position to allow others to see the peace that goes beyond their understanding and they would naturally ask you where it comes from. At that point you are free to share and explain. Understanding God's grace allows us to do these things from the heart and not worry about whatever response we may get in return because we are compelled to love and forgive just as God continues to love and forgive us.

More later...

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You've grown wise, young Padewan. Neighbor was the possibly dead guy in need of help by the side of the road...

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Originally Posted by bigsky

You've grown wise, young Padewan. Neighbor was the possibly dead guy in need of help by the side of the road...

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You guys need to be careful. I ain't done yet. ;)

BTW the neighbor wasn't dead. He was presumed dead by the priest, and Levite because it was considered "unclean" for them to touch him if he was and thus didn't bother to check and see in case they might actually have to go out of their way to help him. Jesus knew his audience well.

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Originally Posted by Edward100

Big Blue Brock, I’m implying that no matter what we do in life we have to live with the circumstances created by our actions/choices. To agree or disagree on any subject is everyone’s right. A man kills 23 girls and is caught. He is sentenced to be hung by the neck until dead. His actions/choices made by him merited the sentence he got. He has to be accountable for his actions/choices.

Sowing and reaping is a natural fact. You plant corn seeds and you harvest corn. You can’t plant corn seeds and expect grapes. The same principal can be applied to ANY action/choice. Weather we agree or disagree has nothing to do with this statement.

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If you get right down to it, the doctrines emphasizing "whosoever believeth" ignore works. And "foreordained" and "predestined" remove choice.

The two precepts badrose quotes provide a guide for living in the material world, not imagining a vengeful Jehovah picking winners and losers.

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Originally Posted by badrose

You guys need to be careful. I ain't done yet. ;)

BTW the neighbor wasn't dead. He was presumed dead by the priest, and Levite because it was considered "unclean" for them to touch him and thus didn't bother to check and see in case they might actually have to go out of their way to help him. Jesus knew his audience well.

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The Samaritan risked it all; in this life and "the next". Now, go and do likewise, eh?

I get it. Just doesn't need all the other to get there.

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Originally Posted by Edward100

I’m implying that no matter what we do in life we have to live with the circumstances created by our actions/choices.

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I think we all agree with that. Where we disagree is that you (and others) believe it is a choice to be gay, and I (and others) do not. Therefore, your point is moot in this discussion (from my perspective). A gay person will not live with the "choice" to be gay any more than I will live with the choice that I am a dude. I didn't choose it. I just am. I was born and I had a penis. Didn't choose it, just did. And when I was old enough to look at a girl in my class, that penis got excited. I didn't choose for it to behave that way when I saw a girl, it just did (and I had to cover it up with textbooks). And when I looked at boys, it didn't move. Didn't choose it that way. It just did.
Now, it is my choice who I look at and how often. Its my choice who I have sex with. Its my choice if its protected or now. And all of those choices have consequences. But, if you locked me down and made me watch 2 dudes humping (against my choice), my penis would still not move. Because I am straight. Didn't choose it. Just am.

Unless I have missed something here, no one has condemned Collins for what he is, but Christians have voiced their opinion about the sin which those that do not believe or have decided to only accept the teachings of their church that go along with how they personallly believe, have not accepted as a sin. The Bible teaches us to love the sinner but hate the sin. Those of us that are Christians and accept wholly the teachings of the Bible regard homosexuality as a sin and it has been state here. Unfortunately there are those that would rather criticize Christians for their beliefs and act as if only they and their beliefs are to be accepted.

Collins could choose to change, there have been many that have done just that.

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Originally Posted by jazyd

Collins could choose to change, there have been many that have done just that.

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The vast majority of those who have "been saved from" homosexuality, lesbianism, bisexuality, and transgenderism have found that they have been lying to themselves after, typically, not too much time. If the opposite were true, there would be a lot more testimonials from gay Christians, especially after a fair amount of time to test the two theories, who claimed long-lasting success in "converting" to heterosexuality.

I do not have statistics handy and, frankly, have to go offline now, but just wanted to mention that the phenomenon you mention has been studied thoroughly from a variety of angles and the one consistency is that one's sexual choice comes naturally, NOT as a choice.

Religious folks who DO deem ANY form of non-heterosexual behavior to be "sinful" and a sentence to eternal "hell" if they do not "repent" may not like that, but science and actual human experiences back that up with very rare exceptions, and even those usually are found to be in such turmoil that admitting to their biological reality is either too painful or would cause too much strife in their complicated personal, religious, and professional lives.

BTW, I would be very curious to know how the Biblical literalists who claim their knowledge and understanding of Judeo-Christian gospels is unassailable would identify hermaphroditic folks and who THEY choose to be with on a sexual/relationship level.

Any takers on that?

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Originally Posted by jazyd

Unfortunately there are those that would rather criticize Christians for their beliefs and act as if only they and their beliefs are to be accepted.

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Well, one belief system begets intolerance and bigotry, whereas the other belief system is inclusive and doesn't judge a person simply because they are attracted to their own sex. Why should Collins choose to change who he is simply because the narrow-minded think he's "icky"? You use the Bible as your moral compass. I wonder, did you ever try to sell your daughter into slavery? Because, you know, that's perfectly OK according to Bible. Do you let women talk in your church? Because they're supposed to keep quiet according to the Bible. Do you hang a man for working on the Sabbath? Because you're supposed to according to the Bible.

Many many things are "sanctioned" by the Bible that society has long since recognized as being draconian both in principle and in application. It simply happens that homosexuality is one of the few remaining Old Testament "sins" some Christians use as justification for being bigoted and intolerant.

And ya know, I wouldn't have a problem with some Christians continuing to believe that homosexuality is a sin so long as they kept it within their congregation and didn't use it as justification to legislate their particular theocratic morality and deny rights and privileges to LGBT couples.

Sorry, this is a long post...feel free to skip down and read my summary at the bottom.
Not that it makes any difference to the conversation, but I am a Christian who believes the Bible. And I do not believe the Bible teaches it is a sin (no way I can explain that on here...but it is a gross mis-interpretation). So, let me comment from a Christian view (since I tried a logical approach):
Even if a Christian does believe its a sin, 1 Corinthians 5:12 is as clear as can be about how this issue should be handled by those who do believe it is a sin:
"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?".
Somehow, that verse (and entire passage) has been completely ignored by the vast majority of the Christian community. If you have someone who has chosen to go to your church...sure, feel free to talk with them about what you believe they are doing is wrong. But as for those outside your church, what business is it of yours? That's Paul saying that.
By the way, the Bible doesn't teach us to love the sinner and hate the sin. That's a phrase that is used often by Christians, but is not found in the Bible. The Bible teaches us to love others and put them above ourselves.
For me, this issue was decided when I read how Jesus lived. And that is true no matter what you believe about being gay (sin or not). On one hand, He never said a word about it. That doesn't conclusively mean he thought it was not a sin, but its significant to me historically (which is a whole other can of worms).
Second, for those that do believe its a sin...You will not find many examples of Jesus walking up to anyone and telling them what they are doing is wrong. Or stopping them from doing wrong. And He knew. He knew better than anyone else. But that wasn't His approach or mission. He didn't lead from a power or political standpoint, and He didn't change people by telling them their behavior (or not) was wrong. He loved them. Served instead of ruled. He valued people just as they were.
And as I am sure you have heard a hundred times, the only people He clearly "Judged", was the religious people who told others what they did was wrong (you know, like the Pharisee who prayed and said, "God, thank you I am not like that guy (a "sinner")." He couldn't stand those people.
For me, as a Christian, its pretty simple. Which side of this fence would Jesus be on? How would He treat people, even if He thought they were wrong? How would He vote (Answer: He wouldn't)?
Summary: You can be a Christian, believe the Bible, and not believe its a sin.
Even if you do believe its a sin, its not any of your business what other people are doing outside your church.

P.S. Brock, you would probably like my church. Just sayin.

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Originally Posted by Krank

BTW, I would be very curious to know how the Biblical literalists who claim their knowledge and understanding of Judeo-Christian gospels is unassailable would identify hermaphroditic folks and who THEY choose to be with on a sexual/relationship level.

Any takers on that?

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:happy0100:

This thread has become a UCC echo chamber.