Coronavirus Politics: Right vs Left

Two weeks without a case in Gallatin County, a county of about 115,000, airport, Gateway to Yellowstone, interstate 90, University town, youthful demographics, multiple heavy construction projects . 146 cases total, 145 recovered, one death. Why should we be shut down? Politics. Lets the Governor D run daily cost free vs the incumbent Senator, R (my former neighbor and good friend—currently in one of his tv ads). Bars and reataurants can now open at their discretion with sideboards, including 6’ rule. Gyms still ordered closed. Medical still not very open. 2 week quarantine was always nonsense but still required except for anyone with a job.

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

Ha...just needed to wait a few minutes for my last post. I vouched for the 30 day lockdown early on (the hammer). I think in a country where people travel from state to state as much as they do its better to have everyone as close to the same timeline as possible. Not to mention the access to tv and social media showing people in one state eating out and another in total lockdown. You lose the crowd that way.
I believe a 30 day national lockdown would have shortened the lockdown for many states and people would have been more on board with it since it had a firm date to open back up slowly.
Neither here nor there now. We are past that stage imo.

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I see no evidence to support it. Matter of fact there isn’t much evidence that a lockdown works, other than to give officials time to get distancing plans and treatment plans in place. The country would be in far better shape today had there not been a lockdown greater than 14 to 21 days.

South Dakota didn’t mandate staying at home. News reports proclaimed an outbreak explosion. A month after those reports the death total is 29. Deaths per million is among the lowest in the nation.

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Originally Posted by MickintheHam

I see no evidence to support it. Matter of fact there isn’t much evidence that a lockdown works, other than to give officials time to get distancing plans and treatment plans in place. The country would be in far better shape today had there not been a lockdown greater than 14 to 21 days.

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There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that fewer restrictions were better. Beshear excoriated the Tennessee governor for not locking that state down quickly. They initially had higher case rates than Kentucky, but not now. Their instances of death and cases are lower per million people and they have tested more people than Kentucky has.

Their is a lot of evidence that herd immunity is the best long term answer to the pandemic. There is a reason pandemics are a flash and not sustained flames.

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Originally Posted by MickintheHam

I see no evidence to support it. Matter of fact there isn’t much evidence that a lockdown works, other than to give officials time to get distancing plans and treatment plans in place. The country would be in far better shape today had there not been a lockdown greater than 14 to 21 days.

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Absolutely

Regarding “science” one of the grant requirements is diversity. Technical knowledge and creativity and accomplishment are well and good, but ya better check a couple of boxes to get a science grant. This is how we fail.

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Originally Posted by KeithKSR

There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that fewer restrictions were better. Beshear excoriated the Tennessee governor for not locking that state down quickly. They initially had higher case rates than Kentucky, but not now. Their instances of death and cases are lower per million people and they have tested more people than Kentucky has.

Their is a lot of evidence that herd immunity is the best long term answer to the pandemic. There is a reason pandemics are a flash and not sustained flames.

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Beshear is in over his head on a lot of issues. Good point on the immunity. I must state even when the statistics are in support of my argument, they are largely flawed. There is no standard for the accuracy, reliability, and consistency of data. Politicians clamoring that they will follow the data before making a decision will likely find themselves following the road to ruin.

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Originally Posted by Doc

Follow your doctors advice but don't make me. I prefer to follow MY doctors advice. As I stated, initial recommendation were "no need for a mask"

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Safety reports to me at work. Not sure how Safety reports to the Director of IT, but they do. Back in February we were on several calls with MD's, Epidemiologist, and health officials (Mostly state, but a few federal). This was before it was all political, they all told us to not wear masks.

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Originally Posted by KentuckyWildcat

Safety reports to me at work. Not sure how Safety reports to the Director of IT, but they do. Back in February we were on several calls with MD's, Epidemiologist, and health officials (Mostly state, but a few federal). This was before it was all political, they all told us to not wear masks.

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And at the time this information was being shared with the nation on public TV, I was thinking what in the he!! is wrong with you people. Then they tell me it is OK to wear masks but remember that the mask will not protect you from inhaling aerosolized virus, but it will keep you from transmitting the virus to others if you are infected. If I can't blow the virus out, then I damn sure can't suck it in.

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

Honest answer?

For many, not all, they are both symptoms of the underlying psychology of the person. They are both symptoms of that, not causative but correlated.

Liberals, and this isn't to sound insulting, tend to value security over liberty. Conservatives, and this isn't meant to be insulting either, value liberty over security.

That fundamental balance is at the heart of the American Experiment, and it's a thread that runs through cultures and thus helps define what kinds of government people tolerate. Cultures with higher needs for security tend to tolerate more totalitarian regimes, and that's also why we see them rise to power in times of turmoil and crisis as more and more people put more value on security over liberty.

The irony of this of course is that 250 years ago we called everyone by the opposite name, so it's better to say that "classical liberals" who generally oppose government tend to value liberty over security, and classic conservatives who look to government for action and responsibility tend to favor security over liberty.

Now, there is also a contemporary component to it. I agree with you about people on here, but the leaders of our respective political groups absolutely would not want to see their opponent elected if it somehow solved this problem. That's cold but I think it's true.

As I linked, many left leaning leaders are calling this an "opportunity", when the correct word may be "tragedy". But it's an axiom of radical politics on both sides that you leverage a crisis to help move the pendulum from the middle to an extreme. As I said, the rise of groups like the Nazis are all predicated on some kind of social/economic/political crisis that helps to radicalize people to more extreme responses.

So I dont' think the average American is rooting for this to get worse so Trump loses, but it sure seems many in the media and many political leaders feel that way based on their tone and words, and likewise I'm sure many on the other side feel the same way about Biden et al.

But I do think there is an inherent bias in people to lean to either liberty or security that does influence their politics and also thus influences their reaction to this kind of crisis.

As for me personally I made my peace with Death a long time ago. He will come for everyone, there is no point in fearing him or living your life trying to stave him until the last possible moment. If you do you'll probably forget to actually live life in the time you do have, so live your life, don't be stupid, take basic care of yourself and the rest is simply not in your power to control.

So I'll wear my mask, wash my hands a heck of a lot, try to be smart, and hope for the best, but I will not fear this virus or any other thing on this earth.

And I will not give up my liberty in the long term in order to avoid it either, esp. when it seems to be an inevitable and inexorable act of nature which we can only hope to slow, not stop. Eventually we will either all get this or all get vaccinated for it b/c it seems very much that virulent. So the only thing to do is for us to get it slow enough we still have hospital beds and medical staff for those who need it.

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Well said!

Liberals, and this isn't to sound insulting, tend to value security over liberty. Conservatives, and this isn't meant to be insulting either, value liberty over security.
I don't think there can be any argument about this statement. But, when you look at nations that give up their liberty, it's not long till they have no security either. When politicians get too much power, they tend to force citizens to yield to their idea of what's best for them and the country. I want and think I should have the liberty, to make my on mind up as to what is best for me, as long as I'm not interfering with someone else's right to do the same. Now I know someone will say, but if you get the virus and expose someone else to it you are interfering with their rights, but you can't hide forever from things like this and there's a point that keeping everything shut down is going to be worse than the disease and will probably cause more deaths and much more suffering than to carefully open things back up and getting our people back to work.