I Love Living Down South Where We Have Our Guns And Our Religion

The great news is that everyone on this board get to live exactly where they want to. And there are a lot of wonderful and beautiful states to live in. I won’t (but certainly could) say a bad word about anyone’s home state because we all have different priorities, politics and passions.

As I’ve said, I’ve lived in several states and visited all 50. It’s a beautiful country we have here.

I’ve been in California 22 years. I’ve loved every one of those years and couldn’t imagine living somewhere else. 40 million other people agree with me.

Oh dude, other states deserve to be ripped on as much as Cali, and more in some cases. let it fly! :)

I've only been in Cali a few times, and the weather was unbelievably perfect and where I stayed was great. I was visiting friends who had money though, so we stayed in a nice area where you could walk down to the beach, walk up to shops and restaurants, etc.

It was sweet. But in truth if you're staying in the rich areas, most states have some nice ones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

Oh dude, other states deserve to be ripped on as much as Cali, and more in some cases. let it fly! :)

I've only been in Cali a few times, and the weather was unbelievably perfect and where I stayed was great. I was visiting friends who had money though, so we stayed in a nice area where you could walk down to the beach, walk up to shops and restaurants, etc.

It was sweet. But in truth if you're staying in the rich areas, most states have some nice ones.

---

Every state I’ve been to has their beauty as well as their warts. I’ve been lucky the few times I’ve been to Cali that I really haven’t seen the bad stuff. I’ve got an uncle and a cousin who live in North Hollywood. She loves the state period while my uncle only loves the weather. I like to tease him and say that he, Devin Nunes, and Kevin McCarthy are the only conservatives in the entire state which he gets a kick out of. He’d be back home in good old Knifley, KY in a minute though if his only grandchild wasn’t in Cali.

I’m hoping to take a fun trip to San Fran area in the next couple years to watch my beloved 49ers play at home. I’ve seen them play in Cincy, Indy and Nashville but a home game is on my bucket list.

California has a lot more conservatives than people think, that's for sure. part of the problem is they are in enough of a minority that the Democrats have been able to rig the elections so they have almost no voice.

The jungle primary keeps a lot of GOP candidates off the final ballot, and then the ballot stuffing keeps the rest from winning office.

I’ve been twice and will head back a third time in January. But out in the desert this time. In general, it is too urban and crowded for me, along the coast. I feel trapped against the ocean with no way to escape for 50 miles to Sacramento or apple valley. Orange is a nice college town whose borders are defined by three freeways! And I’ve gone from downtown LA to the art district and seen skid row. Also lived for a while in Reno. Sister city Sparks is home to millions? of sq ft of warehouse space for hauling into CA because in doing so they escape CA intrastate regulations. I pay a lot of attention to the “price appreciation” of CA housing. South Bay and Stanford and San Francisco. And I see the impact of all the liberal voters moving to Bozeman from CA who, leaving the mess they left behind, immediately want
To bring the same policies here.

I know people who fled. To winter sept to june. Because they cashed in their appreciation and now are driving the locals out here. And wondering why we dont have all the stuff and government and giveaways they had there. Montana is great but making it here in a small town is hard economically and it’s cold. So I know why people leave. Why are people leaving their California paradise in such numbers? Or New York? Or Illinois?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bigsky

Montana is great but making it here in a small town is hard economically and it’s cold. So I know why people leave. Why are people leaving their California paradise in such numbers? Or New York? Or Illinois?

---

I will answer this begrudgingly (knowing I am keeping the topic alive).

Well its not because of the large amounts of homeless poop on the sidewalks.

California is by far the most populous state. We have double the amount of people than the 3rd most populous state (Florida). So it only make sense that with FAR more people, we will have a lot of people moving in and a lot of people moving out. No one ever seems to mention this (and should be mentioned in almost any discussion about it).

So, any discussion on people moving to or from should use %'s and not raw numbers to reflect the population of thats state.

California wasn't even in the Top 10 of states people moved out of last year (2018). https://www.unitedvanlines.com/top-states-to-move-to

And we don't need to guess why people moved or not. The link above tells us why.

For California, the #1 reason people moved from was Jobs, followed by family and retirement. To me, this is again no surprise.

As beautiful as it is here, its expensive. That is just the bottom line. When you have by far the highest population in the U.S. living in only a few concentrated areas....housing prices are just going to be crazy in those areas*. Even without the regulations and taxes, etc (which doesn't help). Its simple supply and demand. Its a beach and population tax. And restaurants can charge more, etc because people will pay it.
For many people, it just doesn't make financial sense to live here. They either can't afford to purchase a home or they can afford far more of a home somewhere else.
Almost every friend I know who have moved away...that is their reason why.
Its a question of priority.
For us (for now), we choose to live here. We prioritize the weather, beach, lifestyle, etc. We could easily move to another state (like Utah or Idaho or Nevada or Arizona) which many do and work the same type of job and have far more house, etc.
The housing prices are a COMPLIMENT to California, not an insult. A lot of people live here. By far the most in the U.S. So people leaving for job or retirement are mostly tied to housing prices.

I LOVE it here (which is why I live here). And yet, there is a very good chance that I will not retire here. I will likely sell my home at some point and retire where it is less expensive. So, I will someday likely add to the number of those moving out. Not because of taxes or politics or poop on the sidewalk. But simply because it makes too much sense to cash in on my huge home investment. The money isn't mine in hand until I sell. And I'm not the only one who has figured that out.

*Barstow is also California. Same regulations, state taxes, etc. I've been there 20 times and never seen a homeless person. The median home price is $140,000. $40,000 less than Lexington, KY. $300,000 less than Bozeman, MT. Housing prices are low in areas no one wants to live. Its that simple.

It's true much of the reason for high home prices is the simple demand for the area, no doubt, but it's exacerbated by policies as well. For example, there's a good Bloomberg article dealing with the fact that those areas won't allow high density housing.

Also while some of the costs are due to building codes b/c of earthquakes, there's also a lot of regulatory overhead.

That article also touched on Prop 13, and how that reduces the value of residential housing to cities, favoring commercial development.


But the reason Cali gets a bad rap is basically San Fran and LA, which IMO deserve their criticism. Here's today's headline:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/san...of-life-crimes

Not only does it say he won't prosecute for urination, etc., but also says he won't for buying and selling sex, which apparently is now also a "quality of life" issue, not a crime.

This guy is the son of parents who were Weather Underground, in prison for that robbery that left 3 dead. And he's now the DA.

That's why the rap. The rest of the state doesn't deserve it, but San Fran is SO extreme in so many ways that's what people see and talk about.

And I get not liking it. I don't like that Kentucky is seen as the Hatfields and McCoys either.

Only half of it lol. West Virginia gets the other half.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

It's true much of the reason for high home prices is the simple demand for the area, no doubt, but it's exacerbated by policies as well. For example, there's a good Bloomberg article dealing with the fact that those areas won't allow high density housing.

Also while some of the costs are due to building codes b/c of earthquakes, there's also a lot of regulatory overhead.

That article also touched on Prop 13, and how that reduces the value of residential housing to cities, favoring commercial development.


But the reason Cali gets a bad rap is basically San Fran and LA, which IMO deserve their criticism. Here's today's headline:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/san...of-life-crimes

Not only does it say he won't prosecute for urination, etc., but also says he won't for buying and selling sex, which apparently is now also a "quality of life" issue, not a crime.

This guy is the son of parents who were Weather Underground, in prison for that robbery that left 3 dead. And he's now the DA.

That's why the rap. The rest of the state doesn't deserve it, but San Fran is SO extreme in so many ways that's what people see and talk about.

And I get not liking it. I don't like that Kentucky is seen as the Hatfields and McCoys either.

---

Bad Rap 2 “UC Berkeley instructor calls rural Americans 'bad people' who deserve 'uncomfortable' lives“

Heh. Not to beat up on you too bad. You may be the best Californian I know! My buddy Jack’s livin in Orange and in January we are hunting dinos up at Havasu.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bigsky

Bad Rap 2 “UC Berkeley instructor calls rural Americans 'bad people' who deserve 'uncomfortable' lives“

Heh. Not to beat up on you too bad. You may be the best Californian I know! My buddy Jack’s livin in Orange and in January we are hunting dinos up at Havasu.

---

Ha. No worries. California is such a melting pot that its impossible to paint anything or anyone with a broad paint brush. I know a lot of great people here. There are some I don't care for. There are some areas I don't care for. And many I love. That's of course how it would be with a huge state and a lot of people.

‘Go back to California’: Wave of newcomers fuels backlash in Boise

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dan_bgblue

‘Go back to California’: Wave of newcomers fuels backlash in Boise

---

“It’s really, really hard to swallow,” he said, “when somebody sells their house in California for $700,000, comes here, buys any house they want in cash and still has money in the bank.

“Their kids get to go to college,” he continued. “They drive nice cars. And they get to enjoy everything we built over the years. We don’t get to enjoy it, because we’re working 40 hours a week and doing craft shows and doing yard sales.”

Just passing this along......

https://www.msn.com/en-us/Health/med...les/ar-AAH4Fnt

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...state-n2548969

I think an analogy can clear this up.

It would be like if everyone referred to Illinois as messed up due to the situation in Chicago. So to that degree I completely get Puma's point. Bakersfield isn't anything like San Fran.

that being said, it doesn't mean Chicago shouldn't be criticized.

The criticism is valid, it should just be leveled at the parts of California to which it applies.

I think Cali gets an overall rap versus Chicago/Illinois b/c Cali is a one party state and their state government passes a a lot of liberal legislation very in tune with San fran and LA, and it is usually stuff that ends up making it on the national radar.

That gets the rest of Cali lumped in with San Fran and LA. Back in the 80s when Reagan was there you didn't see the generalizations to quite this extent.

Agree with that. However, those 2 links allude to the real possibilities of 3rd world problems due to the homelessness issues there.
Agree about the Chicago to Illinois analogy too. I’m from Illinois and I get it. Much of Illinois would be OK to donate Chicago to Wisconsin because of the political messes Chicago has voted the state into. California is no different in that regard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

I think an analogy can clear this up.

It would be like if everyone referred to Illinois as messed up due to the situation in Chicago. So to that degree I completely get Puma's point. Bakersfield isn't anything like San Fran.

that being said, it doesn't mean Chicago shouldn't be criticized.

The criticism is valid, it should just be leveled at the parts of California to which it applies.

I think Cali gets an overall rap versus Chicago/Illinois b/c Cali is a one party state and their state government passes a a lot of liberal legislation very in tune with San fran and LA, and it is usually stuff that ends up making it on the national radar.

That gets the rest of Cali lumped in with San Fran and LA. Back in the 80s when Reagan was there you didn't see the generalizations to quite this extent.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof

Agree with that. However, those 2 links allude to the real possibilities of 3rd world problems due to the homelessness issues there.
Agree about the Chicago to Illinois analogy too. I’m from Illinois and I get it. Much of Illinois would be OK to donate Chicago to Wisconsin because of the political messes Chicago has voted the state into. California is no different in that regard.

---

Oh, the problems are quite real, and their solution is of course to coddle it and add to it rather than address the actual problems.

The truth is a lot of these people need to be forcibly locked up and either rehabbed or committed or both. It's a problem that began in the 1960s and then got worse under Reagan in the 1980s when they released a lot of mental patients out to the streets.

They simply cannot care for themselves, and left to their own devices end up with drug problems living in squalor. If the left really cared about them they wouldn't simply allow public urination, they'd ask why any sane adult would ever do such a thing and take action to actually care for people who do.

The rest of it is a drug problem. The vast majority of these people are addicts and/or mentally ill. It's just that simple.

The solution is mental health facilities to house and care for them and drug programs to get them clean. Actual availability of housing is honestly not even the first issue. They can't hold a job or do anything productive to be able to own or maintain a home unless and until you solve the drug/mental illness issues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

That gets the rest of Cali lumped in with San Fran and LA. Back in the 80s when Reagan was there you didn't see the generalizations to quite this extent.

---

Yes, except that honestly needs to be zoomed in even more.

"San Fran" is 47 square miles. That's it. Its tiny for a big city. As a comparison, Lexington is 285 square miles. But Lexington has 321,000 people living in it and San Francisco has 884,000. So you have a ton of people crammed into a tiny area. This is a large factor that again, doesn't get mentioned when people talk about it.
The Bay Area of course is HUGE. Way more square footage and way more people. But you do not see the same homeless problems in other areas of the Bay Area as you do in San Francisco (although there are some as in any big city area). You won't go to Napa or Sonoma and have to dodge the homeless poop while wine tasting. But, they are MORE liberal areas than San Francisco is.

Its similar in LA. The homeless problem there is real. Its a problem. If you go to downtown LA or parts of Hollywood you will see it everywhere. Its sad and and needs to be dealt with. But Los Angeles County is HUGE. With tons of people. So someone that lives in Pasadena for instance would be considered to live in "LA" by anyone not from California. They might even say that when they are out of town just to make it easier. But when you live in California, you don't say "LA". You say "Pasadena" because that tells a lot more about where you live.

My point is that saying "California has a homeless problem" is so broad and zoomed out that it makes it silly. And even saying, "LA or SF have a homeless problem" is too broad (although far more accurate). Downtown LA and SF proper has a homeless problem. Its real. It needs to be dealt with. And I can assure you that anyone living here knows this far more than someone posting a link on a website.
But living here also gives you far more context.
Downtown San Diego also has a homeless issue. Just like any big city does. But they have dealt with it far better (even though I still believe they have a ways to go). If you go to Gaslamp (as we do a lot) you will see homeless people. If you go to Balboa park you will see them, etc. But they have been able to put policies in place that have worked and they have been able to contain the problem much more than LA and SF. I live 35 min from Downtown SD. And I could live my life every single day for a year and never see a homeless person. This is true for the VAST majority of California.

But in the very populated areas of LA and SF, its a true problem.

Casting it off as "because of liberalism" is far too simplistic.
There are a myriad of reasons why it has exploded in those specific areas:
1. Overpopulation in those areas is #1
2. Weather which draws more people to those areas (before they were homeless)
3. Access to Drugs and Alcohol
4. Social Services that feeds/houses them
5. They make money. TONS of tourists and people who will give them money out of charity. This could be its own thread. But there is a guy who sits outside of a Wal Mart not too far from me. I know his name. I know what kind of car he drives (Toyota Camry). I know the condo he lives in in Carlsbad ($500,000 value). And yet he sits outside and has a sign that says "homeless". Why? Because people still give him money. California is the 11th most "giving state" when it comes to charitable contributions per capita.
6. The problem exploded and now they aren't sure how to fix it. And as someone who has served on a board for years dealing with this exact thing: its not easy. Its nuanced. Its multi-faceted. Its difficult. Many of them don't want help. They don't want to be off the street. Many do. There is just no blanket answer. It deserves its own thread. But its a very very difficult problem to deal with because its an individual one more than anything. And there are just too many homeless in those areas to treat the way it needs to be treated.
I feel for them. Honestly.
I hear people say all the time, "Just throw them all in jail". And this is so shortsighted and misses the point. They don't belong in jail. And jails/prisons are already too populated.
I could go on and on. But just agreeing with what has been said:
1. Yes, its a major problem.
2. Its a major problem for LA and SF to deal with.
3. Its not a problem in the vast majority of California.

Puma, I've agreed with you about across the board, but I disagree it's inaccurate to say "San Fran has a homeless problem" and limit it to just downtown,. b/c its the politics of San Fran causing this debacle, not the population density.

Cali has great weather EVERYWHERE, so why are they all in downtown San fran instead of the rest of the bay area, or in whatever other town?

B/c in San Fran being homeless must be better than being homeless in other Cali places where the weather is just as good. (and in fact it's dang cold in San Fran compared to other places lol).

And of course there we agree b/c after #1 on your list there are lots of things that do exactly that, such as social services, laws that now don't even hassle you for public urination, etc.

But that's on "San fran", b/c they WANT to be that way. They CHOOSE through their ballot box to have this problem, simple as that.

Lexington's is getting worse and we're doing the same thing. In fact it's not the people who live with it who are voting for it. It's the suburban guilt ridden middle class and rich people who want to tell themselves they're doing good deeds who are behind it.

We have big donors here who help the homeless shelters. Great. They donate a tiny percentage of their wealth, put up homeless stuff where I live and work, and they live out on their big fancy horse farms and never, not once, come to the north side of Lexington where they put up these buildings. The people who vote for the city officials who likewise think its a great idea don't ever come here either.

I imagine San fran may have some of the same issues, but honestly the few people from there I know seem to be so back-assward they stand right in the middle of those problems and continue to think the very policies that created them just need to be increased in order to solve them. Good luck with that.


So im with you on 3, 4, and especially #5. Same problem in Lexington btw with #5. I know people who come here for the summer but have homes in Eastern Kentucky and come here just to beg. There's a whole commercial enterprise operating here now just b/c they make so much money begging.

Definitely #6 is true but we disagree about it being nuanced. Sure some small percentage is, but you could turn the mountain into a tiny molehill by addressing insanity and drugs.

now, the cost and willpower to do that is massive, that's tough as nails, but the answer is reopening the state mental hospitals (without the Nurse Ratcheds) and maybe even just warehousing those who insist on being addicts, like a big government run opium den.

I'm not endorsing that, but not sure what else to do b/c I doubt rehab will work. Wish it would, but even most who want rehab and have the means and support system don't make it clean, much less those with none of those things. I won't say that's nuanced, but it is a near impossible nut to crack if the goal is to turn heroin and meth addicts into productive home owning members of society.


But as usual we're basically in agreement. But I do think it's OK to label San Fran on this one given their politics, but no doubt it's very inaccurate to say it's a California problem.

Now the thread on how Cali has ended democracy, that one I'll put on the whole state. ;)

I probably wasn't clear. I didn't mean that from a political perspective. Just a tourist/geography perspective. I was just trying to illustrate just how small geographically the area is where someone would actually see homelessness as a major problem. Its a tiny tiny area. 40 square mile of thousands and thousands.

I will tell you that I think #1 on my list is more prominent than #4. No doubt the social services has played its part in keeping homeless there (more than attracting). But, its the overpopulation that caused it to balloon so quickly.

Btw, an odd side discussion on this is that the social services aspect isn't a liberal agenda per say. Most people on both sides of the aisle tend to be for them. I have many many republican/conservative/Christian friends that volunteer/donate to them.
I honestly think that for a lot of people they simply do not know what to do to fix the problem.
You and I seem to be on the same page with what the major issue is that needs to be dealt with...but even that makes it difficult to know how to fix it.

https://harpers.org/archive/2019/12/...=pocket-newtab

https://www.wbko.com/content/news/Of...486826801.html

Kentucky is never ready.....for anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ukpumacat

https://www.wbko.com/content/news/Of...486826801.html

---

Did you notice the timeline on that article?

"By Associated Press/Dalton Godbey |
Posted: Thu 10:05 AM, Jun 28, 2018 |
Updated: Thu 6:35 PM, Jun 28, 2018"

Really an unusual occurrence. Ky has it's share and probably more than their share of illegal drug use,, but injectables are not a large part of the usage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ukpumacat

https://www.wbko.com/content/news/Of...486826801.html

---

In truth, if you are having to compare to Kentucky to defend California, maybe the Cali critics have a better case than I thought. ;)

There are single buildings in California that have more GDP than this state. lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

In truth, if you are having to compare to Kentucky to defend California, maybe the Cali critics have a better case than I thought. ;)

There are single buildings in California that have more GDP than this state. lol

---

Haha. I was just kidding. Just thought I would start posting links of other places randomly since that seems to be happening to California.
His sig said he’s from Bowling Green so that came up.
Only having fun with it all.
Ps. That was actually a well written article. And fun to read. Deceiving of course since my niece lives outside of SF in a gorgeous suburb and her husband takes the BART everyday to downtown to work. And they pay $1800 a month for a 2 bedroom apartment.
I’m thinking that guy had some other issues (or a smart guy wanting to write a story) if he decided to live in a shack without a bathroom.
But still, well written.

https://www.kron4.com/news/nearly-70...N3oaLNHu6w8-38

https://abc30.com/travel/california-...study/5553571/

I don’t doubt the conclusions, as long as you can afford to live there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ukpumacat

https://abc30.com/travel/california-...study/5553571/

---

From Tim Pool, who is anything but a conservative voice in YouTube media....

https://youtu.be/4B6vL2_Hynk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ukpumacat

Haha. I was just kidding. Just thought I would start posting links of other places randomly since that seems to be happening to California.
His sig said he’s from Bowling Green so that came up.
Only having fun with it all.
Ps. That was actually a well written article. And fun to read. Deceiving of course since my niece lives outside of SF in a gorgeous suburb and her husband takes the BART everyday to downtown to work. And they pay $1800 a month for a 2 bedroom apartment.
I’m thinking that guy had some other issues (or a smart guy wanting to write a story) if he decided to live in a shack without a bathroom.
But still, well written.

---

One thing that is happening in Cali which should be a concern is the continual relocation of business headquarters out of state. The recent articles on the Charles Schwabb/TD Ameritrade merger is a case in point. The merged entities will abandon the HQ locations in CA and Nebraska and move to Texas. They will trade an 8.8% and 7.8% tax rate in those states for a 0.75% tax rate in Texas.

Just one example of course, but it seemingly is happening every day. Hell, we even had one Silicon Valley firm relocate to Birmingham. The CEO made the move, not only the HQ but all employees, without ever visiting Birmingham. He said I just wanted OUT. I was delighted with what I found when I got here.

These are anecdotal examples of course. But it is evidence in a world where the bottom line counts, it is becoming increasingly difficult to justify paying California taxes. And in the world of discount brokerage services, companies can’t compete with lower tax states. Schwabb has now put the pressure on the brokerage houses operating in New Yor, PA, and Mass. to find ways to cut their costs.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/van...chment-america

West Oakland shop owners prefer huge logs to homeless person encampments