I see Mick went with Obama. That surprises me. I mean this guy names his Christmas tree after Obama so how could he consider him the worse president?
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I see Mick went with Obama. That surprises me. I mean this guy names his Christmas tree after Obama so how could he consider him the worse president?
There are a wide range of individuals that have been labeled as being in the TEA Party, the tie that binds is that they are fiscally conservative. In other areas their philosophies run the gamut. I vote for individuals, not the party, because when you get away from the extremes there isn't a lot of difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by MTcatfan
I vote for the individual also, I mean if you look at my first post since I have been able to vote for President, I have voted for Obama twice, Bush II twice, Clinton once, and Bush I once, so I am definitely one that looks at the individual. The thing is so far I have not seen one Tea Party person that I would vote for, so that is why I tend to paint with a broad brush with the Tea Party. Notice I said TEA PARTY, not Republican, because while I have yet to see any Tea Party candidate I would vote for in any type of election, there are Republicans that I do vote for and will vote for in any election.Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithKSR
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Originally Posted by MickintheHam
I can look past labels easily, hopefully you read my response above to Keith. I will say again for emphasis, I will vote for a Republican, I will vote for a Democrat, and I have yet to find a single Tea Party candidate that I would vote for. I personally don't care what the person's sex, age, religion, skin color or where they are from(except maybe North Dakota...:evilgrin0007: to a Montanan North Dakota=Tennessee to a Kentuckian) if they are a good candidate I will vote for them. I guess when I see the Tea Party I just don't see a candidate I can support, there have been a couple of Tea Partiers in local elections(or Constitution Party candidates as they call themselves in Montana and predate the Tea Party), and in Montana elections and I just can't support them, their world views are off the wall or in my local elections are just the most racist people around. As far as the viable Presidential candidates, I just don't like Cruz, Paul, Rubio, Perry, Huckabee, Cain, Santorum, and probably a couple others I can't remember, that I believe are all Tea Party darlings, I just have issues with every single one of them. Like I said this isn't some sort of broad brush for all Republicans, I mean I would vote for Christie and he is a GOP member.
Now if it want to call it bias, you can call it bias, but how is that any different than how anyone chooses a candidate to vote for? I follow politics enough, and I am open minded enough, and I am a big enough researcher to make up my mind on every viable candidate, to run every single candidate through my personal beliefs in what I want to see in a candidate and then pick the one I will support while eliminating all other candidates. I guess I just don't see what it wrong with doing it that way? I mean how else am I supposed to pick a candidate?
I am just one that doesn't pretend that one side cheats more than the other, both sides cheat to get their way, that is just the American way of politics. Cheating is cheating and it shouldn't be tolerated, I just don't believe in the vast conspiracy theories that cheating on a wide scale could sway an election that was decided by 5 million votes. If it is closer, cheating can and does win elections, but there is no way a conspiracy as vast as what it would take to change enough states to change an Presidential election could exist without someone ratting it out. I mean voter fraud may change 1 or 2 states, but Obama won the electoral college by so much there just isn't any way voter fraud could have swayed the election by that much. If it sound to good to be true, then it is to good to be true...Quote:
Originally Posted by jazyd
There is a lot to like in a lot of the TEA party type candidates if one looks into realities and explores the distortions presented by the far left and the entrenched Republicans that fear losing their seats in Congress.Quote:
Originally Posted by MTcatfan
Unfortunately it is not only the far left that has distorted the Tea Party. Some within the Republican party have done so as well. Some have use it to further their own agenda by manipulating it from within while others have done the same thru manipulation from the outside. Its a shame that a movement that was anti-establishment has fallen victim to the establishment.Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithKSR
You labeled a fairly large segment of the population as loonies and then state you can't vote for anyone with that label. Now you are backtracking. But your biases and prejudice come through LOUD and CLEAR!Quote:
Originally Posted by MTcatfan
Well it could have easily been Carter. The significant difference is Carter went after the Hostages in Iran, albeit a poorly executed attempt. I think he respected the military. Obama is letting our Marine rot in a Mexican jail and has nothing but contempt for the military.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
Neither 20% interest rates or 0% interest rates do the country much good. So economics is pretty much a wash. Both are clueless.
Mick what in the hell are you talking about? I don't like the Tea Party, that is my prerogative...Also if you actually READ what I typed I typed: if the GOP goes with any of the Tea Party loonies, Obama might be able to squeak out a win. and I am talking SPECIFICALLY about a Presidential election, therefore logically I am calling Cruz, Paul, Cain, Huckabee, Rubio, Perry, and Santorum loonies, I am NOT calling a fairly large segment of the population. To suggest otherwise is asinine, as I am CLEARLY talking about the handful of no more than 10 Tea Party potential Presidential candidates. Please try to not to put words in my mouth, I know how I feel about the Tea Party, and something tells me it mirrors how you feel about Democrats. Plus my further explanation of things isn't back tracking, it is clarifying something you OBVIOUSLY misinterpreted.Quote:
Originally Posted by MickintheHam
Plus how did I backtrack, I still stated in my response that I will not vote for any Tea Party candidate, and it is not prejudice and bias, it is just that I have NO political ideology in common with them(actually I will backtrack a minute here, there are SOME philosophies I do agree with them, but when I take their views as a WHOLE, I just could never vote for any of them, look you are either for less government in EVERY aspect, or you are not, and to me most Tea Partiers are not for less government, they just want to shift the government to fit their view of government, which I do not entirely agree). I guess I also don't understand why it is wrong to have bias', I mean we all have them right? How do we come up with our political affiliations and our political ideology? Aren't forming ANY opinions based on a certain amount of bias? I mean what do you base your political views on?
Also stop beating around the bush, come out and tell me what prejudice I am having coming through loud and clear? I do have prejudices, as does everyone, but I am not prejudiced based on race, sex, religion, etc. I love all people, but that doesn't mean that I am going to vote for Rand Paul, and his being a white, Christian has nothing to do with anything(though that dead squirrel on his head I may be against), I just don't agree with his political views, views he has every right to have, and views I have every damn right to disagree with without being called biased or prejudiced...
That is very true, and why I included entrenched Republicans among those that have distorted TEA Party positions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
Looking at your list of "loonies" I see the bulk of the members of the GOP likely to win a national election. The only negative I have seen on Rubio is that he had to drink water while giving a televised rebuttal. Rand Paul is more of a Libertarian, and focuses on individual rights. Santorum says some goofy things. Cain and the Tea Party?
If the TEA Party types are racists how can the minorities be included?
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Originally Posted by KeithKSR
I'm a big Rubio fan and have been for years. He is far from a loon. Only a couple things that have been controversial with him. One being the immigration aspect but then his history certainly makes that understandable. Also there was some "creationism" issue, stuff about the age of the earth. In my book none of that matters. What one believes religiously is their beliefs and has no relevance to how they should govern so long as they keep their beliefs out of how they govern. Its one of the few aspects I don't like about Huckabee. Its one of the big things I don't like about Santorum. But back to Rubio, he is pretty much a no nonsense and logical person. If he runs, I'd vote for him in a heart beat.
Doc, that's me. Carter is the guy who made me a Reagan Republican. People forget how bad things were in 1980 after less than 4 years of Jimmy Carter. As bad as the financial crisis of 2008 was, I remember the stagflation of the Carter Era as being worse. The double-digit inflation was a cancer in the paycheck of those Americans who had jobs. Carter's impotent attempt to control that through wage and price controls was laughed at even by members of his own party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
As for defense and foreign policy: other than the Camp David Treaty, I can't think of one Carter initiative that wasn't a disaster.
And don't get me started on the whiny little "malaise" speech.
I put LBJ slightly ahead of Carter. Even though his Great Society and Vietnam War initiatives were huge mistakes, his support for the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act puts him slightly ahead of Carter for me.
One can make a good argument for Obama and I won't fault those who list him there. But the suckitude of the Carter Era needs more prominence than it's given--hence, my vote.
What tipped the scale for me between Carter and LBJ, was that LBJ knew exactly what he was doing and why, but Carter did not have a clue.
Yeah, its a "Public" poll meaning you can see who voted for whom by clicking on the number. I was getting lonely. I was a little tike but still recall how bad he wasQuote:
Originally Posted by KSRBEvans
Which is why I picked Obama. It's hard to watch what he's done and not believe he hates this country.Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_bgblue
mtcatfan -
I'm curious what Paul and Rubio have done to be given the "loonies" label.
FWIW I agree there are some definite loonies in the broad "tea party" umbrella, but as Keith said the "Tea Party" is really a populist political movement and as such beyond a general level of fiscal conservatism their philosophies are all over the map. Some are socially conservative, but most are pretty Libertarian, including Rand Paul.
It's true that as a bit of an isolationist and Libertarian he has some less mainstream views on those issues, but not sure that's nearly enough to raise him to "looney". Rubio I really don't get at all, he's not even out of step on those issues.
I consider myself a libertarian and while no candidate is ideal, I could live with Paul b/c of his basic philosophy and desire to dismantle the post Great Society victim society as much as possible, knowing we'd also scale back on the use of force abroad and that would be a mixed bag for us.
Is it Libertarianism itself that is looney or just something Paul et al specifically embraces within it that is the issue? I agree completely there are elements within the Tea Party and Libertarians who are everywhere from on the fringe to card carrying nut jobs, but I don't see that in some of the major national guys you listed.
I no longer support the many tea parties in Miss after our senate primary. The tea party and their Trojan horse candidate turned me and many others against them. And forced us to vote for an incumbent
But to call all those people loonies, not going to say what I think.
Like doc I like Rubio., like Paul. They may be supported by tea party but I doubt they are true to that movement.
The tea party was a good movement in the beginning and what they wanted, but now they are no different than the radical left. It's their way or else . Take Hannity who is all in with the tea party. He said on his show that anyone who voted for Cochran is a rino. He also told all in miss who voted for McDaniels to not vote in the general election even if it meant not taking the senate back just to show up the GOP. That's looney.
That election in Mississippi was a mess. The voters of Mississippi didn't have a good choice no matter what they did. Both campaigns stepped over the line in their tactics.Quote:
Originally Posted by jazyd
As for the tea party, I'm so mad I could spit. It started out as a grass roots movement by real people who were sick and tired of the bullshit politics where every problem was simply "solved" by throwing more money at it. Where problems were "solved" by making back room deals to get people re-elected and bring money to their district at the expense of the nation. The original Tea Partier's were just sick and tired of that and wanted something different. Then in stepped the politicians like Sarah Palin. Sean Hannity and others on the right who felt they could infiltrate it to THEIR advantage and politicians like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid on the left who felt they could discredit it to THEIR advantage. The entire purpose of it was that it wasn't an organization but rather an unorganized movement of people who were just sick of the same ol same ol. It was people who wanted real change and then the folks who the old establishment got the dirty grubby hands on it because it suited their purpose. So while folks like MT and Jazy might by disgusted by the Tea Party it isn't the Tea Party that they should be angry with. Its the posers who ripped it off.
You said it perfectly and one fo the problems is those grass roots people can't see the forest for the trees the way the its been hijacked from them, its almost like a cult where what the leader says goes. Its really amazing to talk to them, many are friends and they just can't see what they have been lead to. The movement was good, many that were sent to congress were good, but as so often happens, the greed by those at the top takes over. And yes Hannity and Reid both have used it to their advantage, Hannity is raking in huge dollars because of it. I read his contract with Fox is $20 million a year.
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Originally Posted by Doc
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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN
What you want to discuss without accusations of bias and prejudice...unheard of...though I will say that I don't care if I am told I am being biased, because you are damn right I am being biased, just as EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS BOARD IS BIASED. Bias is exactly how we form our political views, we have biases and we used those biases to form our political views. To me bias is way, way, way, different than prejudice. I am not prejudiced, I like all people, even far right conservatives:evilgrin0007:...
Libertarianism isn't loony at all, I just am not sure that there is a true libertarian out there, it seems to me that a lot of the Tea Party/Libertarians, profess to be for small government, but really just want to "shift" government to fit their needs. They want to remove the government from say the doctors office, but then want to insert it into everyone's bedrooms. So I guess I don't particularly agree with such tactics. Plus Libertarianism isn't any loonier than I am because I am fairly Libertarian myself, but I am also fairly liberal also, but have some conservative views to, so to me the Tea Party just seems to extreme on a national scale, and is way, way scary for me personally on a local scale.
Now that said I will need a little more time to get to know certain candidates, with say Rand Paul I don't like his views on some social issues, and I think he is to much of an isolationist, while I am not a fan of the bury the head in the sand and pretend things don't exist way of foreign policy that Obama has adopted, I also don't agree with ignore the fact that the US exists in a global society and sometimes that means the US, as a superpower is going to have to get their hands dirty. As far as Rubio goes, he is probably the one I am least familiar with, but I will say that on a quick view I am probably against some of his social views, but can't comment much past that.
Rand Paul drives the traditional GOP people nuts with his stance on some issues, like U.S. military involvement in places where we aren't wanted.
Wonder how this guy would vote
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/16/hugejevy.jpg
Picture taken today
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Gotta like them 'good 'ol boys' in Martin County, FL. Of course, that could be anywhere in most of Florida's 67 counties. And you'd still see that in parts of those left-wing, limp wristed liberal bastions like Miami-Dade, Broward, & Palm Beach counties too.
Can I change my vote?
Absolutely! Join the tens of millions of Americans who are now recognizing an empty suit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
But will they remember or forget and vote for the 'pantsuit' which is just as empty
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Originally Posted by MickintheHam
Crankles?Quote:
Originally Posted by jazyd