Coronavirus

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof

Surprised this hasn’t occurred sooner. It may have, I’m just not aware of it though. May be seeing it In my newsfeed since it’s Louisville news...

https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...es/2976560001/

https://apple.news/AgwFETjXaRR6h3U6JnKud4A

---

Fisher is an effing dork!!

Hell, people at Walmart, the Grocery Store, and Lowe's are within 6 feet of each other. He could put cops and cameras in every store and see the same things he claims he saw at this church. A true leader knows in these times discretion is the better part of valor. The Federal and State Governments know that they have established rules that can't be evenly or fairly enforced. The intent is to slow the spread of the virus, not kill the spirit of the American people. Those that voted for this clown should be concerned. He's an embarrassment to Louisvillians everywhere. He manages the minutia and ignores the city's overwhelming problems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MickintheHam

Fisher is an effing dork!!

Hell, people at Walmart, the Grocery Store, and Lowe's are within 6 feet of each other. He could put cops and cameras in every store and see the same things he claims he saw at this church. A true leader knows in these times discretion is the better part of valor. The Federal and State Governments know that they have established rules that can't be evenly or fairly enforced. The intent is to slow the spread of the virus, not kill the spirit of the American people. Those that voted for this clown should be concerned. He's an embarrassment to Louisvillians everywhere. He manages the minutia and ignores the city's overwhelming problems.

---

I think the idea of a "drive in" service is great. Yet another example of people doing what is needed in the face of this disease. Not sure why anybody would have butt hurt over a drive in service. Its outdoors, which is great, is adequate distance between individuals and their is a method to allow interaction and still be safe.

There's a kind of implied social contract here. Government will only take action that's reasonably related to the safety of the public, and the public will more or less comply. But when Government starts to overreach (shock!), people become less likely to comply and civil disobedience becomes more likely.

I’m mostly just playing devil’s advocate here. I did see an article though about a Pentecostal congregation in Illinois that had a revival where 43 out of 80 attendees fell ill afterward, with 10 already testing positive.

Does government have a responsibility to help its citizens protect themselves? Or just to keep them from endangering others? Some here seem to think neither....

Yes, church services funerals, and other public gathering have caused the spread. But would you like to wager whether or not the Long Island Railroad or the 6 train contributed to the massive spread of the virus in Queens and Elmhurst. Subways are still running. The spread in churches and funerals was not malicious. People learn. People adjust. They shouldn’t be punished with malicious intent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doc

So one must go to a church to practice your religion?

Personally I have no feelings on this one way or the other but IMO restricting any groups ability to congregate/assemble does not restrict their ability to practice or believe in anything. It prevents them from congregating. Closing bars isn't prohibition. Closing restaurants does not prohibit me from eating. Closing churches/mosques/synagogues does not prohibit me from being religious. It just restricts the number of people who can gather in a location.

---

This is exactly right. personally I think it's fine that they attend, providing they are quarantined in that house of worship for whatever amount of time deemed appropriate.
And then they should spend that time reflecting on their relationship to God and desire to tempt Him to prove they actually have the faith they claim.

The problem isn't the believers, it is the false leaders within Christianity who have control over them and a percentage of their wallets.

And if God does not perform a miracle and protect all who do so from the virus and its spread, they play a huge part in damaging the commission given them by Christ himself.
No unbeliever will be saved by such actions. But will be appalled and convinced otherwise.

And if their faith is so strong they can call on God to heal and protect them....proceed to the homes of the poor and sick and go into the streets to pray for them until such faith is rewarded. or demand to stand outside the hospitals while healing the sick within those walls.

Have you great faith?, have it to yourself before God and do not use it to offend the weaker ones of the faith.

These folks seek to prove their faith in the same way snake handlers have tried to do in the past, and care nothing about the rights or well being of citizens or fellow man in the least. Nor those of any other "churches".

..but are convinced to go about hoping to prove they can walk on water and take up serpents to prove their own holiness. And then hope to leave God within those walls as they go back out into the world.

"Where two or more are gathered together in my name, there am I in their midst"
------------------------------------------
“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
See, I have told you beforehand.

“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.

For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together"
-----------------------------
"It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"
..refering to the commandment
Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catfan73

I’m mostly just playing devil’s advocate here. I did see an article though about a Pentecostal congregation in Illinois that had a revival where 43 out of 80 attendees fell ill afterward, with 10 already testing positive.

Does government have a responsibility to help its citizens protect themselves? Or just to keep them from endangering others? Some here seem to think neither....

---

There's a huge, massive difference between suggesting we may need to restrict certain liberties temporarily in the face of a crisis and suggesting that those rights do not really exist or are tremendously fungible, which is the nature of your prior posts.

There is zero doubt that restricting a church service in any way is a violation of the constitutionally protected rights of religion and assembly. It absolutely is a violation. Suggesting it is not is incredibly dangerous b/c those same arguments could be used at any time to restrict those liberties.

The answer is that we are temporarily violating those rights due to a temporary crisis, but we cannot long accept such violation or accept it for indeterminate amounts of time and we cannot ever take such restrictions lightly and try to justify them as acceptable or reasonable in all but the most extreme of circumstances.

I got this from a friend of mine who lives in Shelbyville...his Jeep and about 15 other vehicles had their catalytic converters cut off and stolen in Kroger’s parking lot this morning....
We are starting to see societal breakdown.....

Anything that directly threatens the very lives of our children (and theirs) better dang well be regulated in a civilized society.

And yes, that would include some abortions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof

I got this from a friend of mine who lives in Shelbyville...his Jeep and about 15 other vehicles had their catalytic converters cut off and stolen in Kroger’s parking lot this morning....
We are starting to see societal breakdown.....

---

Its been going on for the last few months all around the country. Increasing a lot lately with the lack of police patrols. More rampant than car theft.

People working under a vehicle aren't usually questioned since its assumed they have car trouble.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

There's a huge, massive difference between suggesting we may need to restrict certain liberties temporarily in the face of a crisis and suggesting that those rights do not really exist or are tremendously fungible, which is the nature of your prior post.

---

I neither said nor inferred any such thing.

No different than your inference that some here don’t care about about cause and effect of government action/non action in this situation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catfan73

I neither said nor inferred any such thing.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catfan73

I neither said nor inferred any such thing.

---

You compared the restrictions on freedom of assembly to laws on DUI and seatbelts. Yeah, you did.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catfan73

I neither said nor inferred any such thing.

---

Here you are dismissing utterly the freedom of assembly:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catfan73

Is this really infringing on anyone’s ability to practice the religion of their choosing though? The 1st amendment also says we have the right to free speech but you can’t walk into a crowded theater and start yelling Fire! because people will get hurt in the ensuing rush to get out.

---

that's the kind of statement you'd see in a Communist Chinese broadcast justifying the closing of Mosques or in the USSR to close churches.

I would wager every person here, who had a grandchild being taken to a church for services or that risked being exposed would totally support restricting such a gathering.

As far as our own admitted devils advocate, let's not make him feel uncomfortable. The situation we are all in is quite unique, and also unique to each individual, and not so cut and dry.

I like the way this is trending:

Attachment 9336

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

But condolences to KAT on the loss of his mother. They were very close.

I have 3 friends who have lost family members to this. As UK fans we know of KAT’s mom, and media members who cover UK that have had it. It touches most all of us that way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KSRBEvans

I like the way this is trending:

Attachment 9336

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

But condolences to KAT on the loss of his mother. They were very close.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kingcat

I would wager every person here, who had a grandchild being taken to a church for services or that risked being exposed would totally support restricting such a gathering.

As far as our own admitted devils advocate, let's not make him feel uncomfortable. The situation we are all in is quite unique, and also unique to each individual, and not so cut and dry.

---

I would not support the government restricting this gathering - even if it kept my grandchild from going.

With that being said, I would be extremely disappointed in my job as a parent if my son/daughter would risk taking their child to this service.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Basket Case

I would not support the government restricting this gathering - even if it kept my grandchild from going.

With that being said, I would be extremely disappointed in my job as a parent if my son/daughter would risk taking their child to this service.

---

And if every church decided they must follow suit in your community? Knowing it increases the chance of everyone you love contracting the virus tenfold or twenty fold.

In a large city that would be a death sentence for someone you know, and very likely someone you love. And forgive me for saying, but if it did, I do not believe for one second anyone here would then be so quick to agree.

Time for this to be OVER. The point of the quarantine was to slow or flatten the curve so that hospitals were not overwhelmed, and that we had time to develop testing and treatments. That has been achieved. The idea that it ends when there are zero cases is unrealistic, and unnecessary. It is time to reopen and get those LOW RISK people back working. Those in the high risk category can and should remain isolated until a vaccine comes out or they test antibody positive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kingcat

And if every church decided they must follow suit in your community? Knowing it increases the chance of everyone you love contracting the virus tenfold or twenty fold.

In a large city that would be a death sentence for someone you know, and very likely someone you love. And forgive me for saying, but if it did, I do not believe for one second anyone here would then be so quick to agree.

---

I just don't believe in the suspension of the Bill of Rights. Also, if you notice, most states are not pushing the limits here. Dewine from Ohio keeps imploring churches to shut down but is not taking action against them. Bashear is largely doing the same thing. They know it is a court fight they would likely lose.

I'm glad my church shut down, and I wouldn't have gone anyway. I do not support government shutting them down by gun, which is what you are advocating.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Basket Case

I just don't believe in the suspension of the Bill of Rights. Also, if you notice, most states are not pushing the limits here. Dewine from Ohio keeps imploring churches to shut down but is not taking action against them. Bashear is largely doing the same thing. They know it is a court fight they would likely lose.

I'm glad my church shut down, and I wouldn't have gone anyway. I do not support government shutting them down by gun, which is what you are advocating.

---

No I'm not. No more than some seem to be advocating defying any such order by gun.

I am saying they are not above being placed in quarantine after such a public gathering. There are not the resources to monitor their social distancing.
That is how you gently and wisely enforce the request.

EDIT: I would add, it is the Christian thing to do..if disobeying is actually a Christian undertaking in the least. I view it more as a stunt to make headlines and to intentionally abuse their rights.

I'd also mention that your moniker is so appropriate for the time. I think my wife may qualify for that designation being isolated with me for so long.. :)

I grabbed this from one of the sports thread that...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LakeCat

Kentucky's population is 5 times that of South Dakota. KY is locked down tighter than a drum and has 65 Covid-19 deaths. SD is advocating being smart with virus but no lock down and has 9 deaths. Let's see 65 divided by 5 is 13. Yes SD is less densely populated but this endless lock down is not the answer imo. In fact the logic of funneling everyone into a few large stores is stupid. Just my take.

---

South Dakota is now one of the hot spots, has closed a factory down, and local mayors are begging for the governor to take action.

Kentucky, on the other had, has basically shut it down where the spread is happening in nursing homes and those disobeying the orders. It wouldn't surprise me if this time next week, that South Dakota passes Kentucky. At some point people that thought that locking down wasn't the answer are going to have to realize that it IS the answer.

As some places are hitting their apex, the questions start to turn to:

-is there adequate, mass testing? So far, NO, and no plans for there to be

-with relaxed social distancing, what is an acceptable infection rate, death rate? Models in LA and elsewhere are predicting mid-May relaxing would result in a 95% infection rate. We won't know those until we see what is happening in other countries, or we test some regions in the U.S. Currently, where places around the world relaxed restrictions, they are finding themselves almost back to where they started

Also, you're seeing new models call for forms of social distancing (specifically large gatherings) into 2022 in a new Harvard study

I know people are ready to get this going, I'm dying to get out of the house, but we're just getting started in what a new normal looks like.

I agree. The biggest problem is that some Governor's didn’t shut down.
This is why I kept clamoring for a 30 day national lockdown.
The issue now is we are all on different timetables of the curve.
That’s especially an issue with highly visited states like California and NY.
As soon as we (California) get on the other side of that curve (May 15 shows 0 deaths) several states will still be fully infected. Which is why that model has everyone on lockdown until May 31st.
States that could let up might not be able to because they are waiting on the slower states.

The other thing that I forgot to mention is the spike in people in other countries that no longer show symptoms for a month, but are still testing positive, as we have seen with Sturgill Simpson.

At least from what I’ve seen, we don’t understand the ability of those people to spread. That could just be another thing to add on top is asymptomatic carriers.

I just read that MLB and over 10,000 workers, families for 27 teams have agreed to be test patients for the antibody studies. A creative way to get the season going.

This is all stuff that I never in my 64 years thought we'd be discussing..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doc

Time for this to be OVER. The point of the quarantine was to slow or flatten the curve so that hospitals were not overwhelmed, and that we had time to develop testing and treatments. That has been achieved. The idea that it ends when there are zero cases is unrealistic, and unnecessary. It is time to reopen and get those LOW RISK people back working. Those in the high risk category can and should remain isolated until a vaccine comes out or they test antibody positive.

---

Absolutely!! I expect Alabama will begin to lift the Stay at Home order before the April 30 date that's in the current order. It could end in the next 10 days. No schools will be open and there will be no large scale public gatherings. I do expect businesses that can demonstrate they can maintain social distancing will reopen.

Where statistics are available hospitalizations are down, some by as much as 1/3.

I want this thing over as much as anyone. And yes, we have to get the economy going again. But if we let up too soon and this thing reignites, we are literally starting over.

This is the chart that scares me to death: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

I know there are more cases out there than have been reported. But those death rates are staggering.

Word is that the public school system here in KY will not reopen this year. Classwork will be completed from home and there will not be any standardized testing to monitor student progress toward the established target goals.

Governor is unlikely to give the word to go forth and shop and multiply until the CDC says the virus is dead and gone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ukpumacat

I want this thing over as much as anyone. And yes, we have to get the economy going again. But if we let up too soon and this thing reignites, we are literally starting over.

This is the chart that scares me to death: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

I know there are more cases out there than have been reported. But those death rates are staggering.

---

I don't believe anyone can argue against the death rate being horrible. The rate will always be horrible. The trend in new cases and existing cases however is what will determine how and when we let up. And in many places that will be very soon.

With such poor testing, we don't understand how bad the situation is. We are flying blind. Round 2 of the Spanish Flu in the US was much more worse than the first go around.

We need to learn so much about this virus. How do the antibodies work? What is the likelihood of someone getting it again? What is the mortality rate if reinfection is possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MickintheHam

I don't believe anyone can argue against the death rate being horrible. The rate will always be horrible. The trend in new cases and existing cases however is what will determine how and when we let up. And in many places that will be very soon.

---

Yes. I agree. There is a threshold that the Scientific community seems to agree with.
When the average of deaths per day is 0.3 per million people, restrictions can be lifted.
That means that the virus is contained enough that we can go back to a “containment phase” (which we failed at the first time) and lift some restrictions to be out of the mitigation stage.
That’s roughly 328 deaths a day in America. Yesterday, we had 2,400.

Based on the model the White House has been using, we will reach that point on May 22nd (or sooner) if all states will remain on lockdown.

The problem is that not every state is on lockdown. So as some that are (like mine) are on the way down (California will reach that mark in a few weeks) others are still rising.
And since we live in a border-less country states will be reinfected in no time.

Now, maybe they can do that regionally once some areas hit that #. But they would basically have to temporarily ban all domestic travel to those areas.
This might very well be his plan. I don’t know.

Specifically, California will reach this on May 3rd according to the model.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ukpumacat

Specifically, California will reach this on May 3rd according to the model.

---

Yes, it is very much a regional issue, and the lock downs will ease on a regional basis. Much to the chagrin of my liberal friends there will be no Federal Government answer. I believe there are many states ahead of California on being ready to ease restrictions. You will see many before May 3.

There is one other factor in all of this. You can’t control the American public the way many in DC wish. Sanctions will remain in place as long as the citizens wish. There are many signs the pubic is ready to go about their business. Where you saw no activity on our streets 15-20 days ago, people are now out and about.

The governments need to move quickly to stay ahead of the citizenry. If professional politicians and bureaucrats fail to read the sentiments of the public, they will be overrun. The medical community and bureaucrats can lead only to the extent the American public allows. Right now the populace is starting to become restless.

I think only Washington is ahead of California on that. But I would have to do the numbers for every state.

California had 55 deaths yesterday. But we have 40 million people. We have to get down to 12 a day to reach where they say is safe.
Other states obviously have less, but their population is way less. So, they are further from the "containment" criteria.

And I agree, people are getting restless. I certainly am. But people need to get educated. If restrictions are lifted before they are in containment (and we are close)....all of this was for nothing and there will be an instant spike.
And what happens is it doesn't matter if businesses are "open". You will have people not going to work, people not going to any of those businesses and worse situation altogether. And of course way more deaths.

Don't get me wrong. We are close. I just think we have to wait until we are there. California is 3 weeks away. We can handle it. And then, hopefully, restrictions will slowly be lifted and it can be contained out here. But we were the first state to go on lockdown.
For those states that delayed, they will have to wait longer. Or again, all of this was for nothing.

Alabama, fwiw, is expected to hit that mark on May 16th.

People are as educated as they want to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MickintheHam

People are as educated as they want to be.

---

Ha. True. As Cuomo said, “The restrictions are only as good as people complying to them. We can’t arrest 2 million people”.

He’s right.

For the sake of all of us, I hope people keep complying for a few more weeks.

You won't have to worry about people running back to work. 95% of Americans got a raise to be laid off and that lasts till June 30 I think.

Seriously, we are shut down thanks to that as much as the virus at this point. lol

And yes, I think that was part of the point. The other part being to keep enough disposable income in the system to keep the economy ready for a restart.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UKHistory

With such poor testing, we don't understand how bad the situation is. We are flying blind. Round 2 of the Spanish Flu in the US was much more worse than the first go around.

We need to learn so much about this virus. How do the antibodies work? What is the likelihood of someone getting it again? What is the mortality rate if reinfection is possible.

---

Attachment 9341