General COVID vaccination thread

Pedro, I don't think the CDC is political b/c of the booster situation, though they are allowing themselves to be painted that way.

It's really the now almost 2 year long behavior at CDC that has undermined confidence. Some of it is their fault, some not, but it has really undermined the public confidence in the institution.

First among those is the eviction moratorium. It's really unclear (and now per SCOTUS completely clear) that it was ever constitutional, but it was very political. The basis for it was very tenuous and using the CDC to implement it in order to find some legal basis for it only hurt them. The same thing with OSHA and testing/vaccinations now. Otherwise generally non-political entities implementing very politically charged orders.

They also really messed up on the mask recommendations. They first said only those with symptoms need them, then tried to split the baby with saying others should wear "non-medical, cloth masks". The only reason to qualify that is b/c the entire early recommendation to NOT wear masks (which included Fauci at NIH and the Surgeon General) was b/c of the mask shortage.

So instead of the truth, which was "masks will help but we don't have enough pre-made N95 masks so they must be held for front line workers", they just basically lied, then backed off and told a half lie, then finally the truth.

Notice that's non-political, b/c that happend during Trump. The way it should have been handled is the US government basically seizing or otherwise rationing all retail inventories of those masks, tellling everyone else to cover their face as best they can, and explain why. It wouldn't make people happy, but you wouldn't lose credibility either.

Reminds me of the history of eggs and potatoes. When I was much younger they were both hailed as superfoods, then they were both evil, and then back to good in moderation, which of course is what we all thought before all the hoopla started in the first place.

You can't go back and forth like that much without people just tuning you out, even if it's the science taking you back and forth. That, as you know far better than I, is why scientists don't draw conclusions before there is a conclusion to draw. The CDC has has to make decisions without perfect information, but they didn't do a good job of communicationg the reality of their situation.

It's OK to say "we don't really know, so this is our best advice right now, but it's going to change as we find out more." There were a few of those instances, but too few.

That's not to mention Fauci mugging for every appearance he can get, and being FAR too definitive for a scientist.

Combine that with all the other lies our leaders tell us on a daily basis, and people are understandably jaded. The CDC was used for political purpose in this, and let themselves be used, and it has hurt them.

Now when we need that credibility so when the booster data comes out they can say "do this", it's not there.

I have been watching the proceedings and the FDA is absolutely HAMMERING Pfizer on the data and the lack of clarity to so many questions.

We will see how the voting is going but it really sounds like they are not going to approve the booster for the general population.

A very important procedural issue just happened:

The question in front of the FDA can be summized as follows: "Is a 3rd dose is warranted for the general population?" The question contains no sub-groups based on age/risk/etc. One of the voting members just asked if there is a "no" vote on the question, will there be the ability to propose modifications to the question and the answer was a resounding yes.

This would allow them to change the question to include sub-groups which would benefit from a booster.

The question is rejected: 16 no votes and only 2 yes votes for the booster for the general population (16+).

General consensus is that there isn't enough data to demonstrate need, benefit, and safety across the entire population.

They will now take comments and propose modifications to the original questions.



Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

The new question is same as before but for those 65 and older and those at high risk due to occupational exposure or underlying disease. General viewpoint seems to be that there are too many questions remaining from the data to warrant it in the general population right now. They all agree that it is something to revisit in the future but the data isn't there at this time.

Booster recommended for 65+ and those at high risk of contracting COVID (such as front-line workers).

In addition to all the other blood tests looking for elusive monocytes, I got tested for covid antibodies and I’m positive, which may mean I’m makin em (after 7 months gone and slayin the dragon) and then again maybe not. I choose to think I am.

My wife, my son, my daughter and I are all fully vaccinated now.

I still am not 100% convinced about the vaccines and their effectiveness, especially long term. Every day it seems like there is a new report that the vaccines work, or they don't, or they're only partially effective, or they don't work that well. All of these reports are all over the place, coming from different sources that may or may not be dependable.

We chose to take the vaccine because of the information our daughter has passed on to us from her experiences in her trauma ICU unit in the hospital she works in. She related to us that she wasn't keen on getting the vaccine, but after what she has seen at work that she concludes that it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. And she urged the Boss and me to get it simply because of our ages, although neither of us has any serious health problems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bigsky

In addition to all the other blood tests looking for elusive monocytes, I got tested for covid antibodies and I’m positive, which may mean I’m makin em (after 7 months gone and slayin the dragon) and then again maybe not. I choose to think I am.

---

A friend of mine, and ironically the former mayor of our small town, had Covid in January. He was in the hospital and on a vent. In August he still had a lot of antibodies.

J&J says COVID-19 vaccine booster 2 months after first shot increases protection

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dan_bgblue

J&J says COVID-19 vaccine booster 2 months after first shot increases protection

---

I thought the more interesting part was they evaluated antibody levels at two different booster intervals. The two month booster gave a four-fold increase in antibody levels. Just extending the time between doses to six months showed a TWELVE-fold increase in antibody levels.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

COVID-19 has now killed about as many Americans as the 1918-19 Spanish flu pandemic did — approximately 675,000.

The U.S. population a century ago was just one-third of what it is today, meaning the flu cut a much bigger, more lethal swath through the country. But the COVID-19 crisis is by any measure a colossal tragedy in its own right, especially given the incredible advances in scientific knowledge since then and the failure to take maximum advantage of the vaccines available this time.

"Big pockets of American society — and, worse, their leaders — have thrown this away," medical historian Dr. Howard Markel of the University of Michigan said of the opportunity to vaccinate everyone eligible by now.

Like the Spanish flu, the coronavirus may never entirely disappear from our midst. Instead, scientists hope it becomes a mild seasonal bug as human immunity strengthens through vaccination and repeated infection. That could take time.

Linkage

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dan_bgblue

COVID-19 has now killed about as many Americans as the 1918-19 Spanish flu pandemic did — approximately 675,000.

The U.S. population a century ago was just one-third of what it is today, meaning the flu cut a much bigger, more lethal swath through the country. But the COVID-19 crisis is by any measure a colossal tragedy in its own right, especially given the incredible advances in scientific knowledge since then and the failure to take maximum advantage of the vaccines available this time.

"Big pockets of American society — and, worse, their leaders — have thrown this away," medical historian Dr. Howard Markel of the University of Michigan said of the opportunity to vaccinate everyone eligible by now.

Like the Spanish flu, the coronavirus may never entirely disappear from our midst. Instead, scientists hope it becomes a mild seasonal bug as human immunity strengthens through vaccination and repeated infection. That could take time.

Linkage

---

I expect us to have one more big wave after this one.

Here's an interesting one that i've not really heard. My boss said he had a breakthrough infection and was sick for a few days, the usual flu like sickness with Covid. He is on about week 3-4 i believe, and said he is suffering from depression/anxiety. He said he noticed it really gets crazy bad when he drinks a few beers, like 2-3, so he said he's stopped drinking. He thought it was odd because he had never had that happen pre-covid and isnt the kind that would be scared of covid per se. Said he had to get some anxiety meds and popped them a few times then realized its only happening to that degree when he has a few drinks so has stopped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Padukacat

Here's an interesting one that i've not really heard. My boss said he had a breakthrough infection and was sick for a few days, the usual flu like sickness with Covid. He is on about week 3-4 i believe, and said he is suffering from depression/anxiety. He said he noticed it really gets crazy bad when he drinks a few beers, like 2-3, so he said he's stopped drinking. He thought it was odd because he had never had that happen pre-covid and isnt the kind that would be scared of covid per se. Said he had to get some anxiety meds and popped them a few times then realized its only happening to that degree when he has a few drinks so has stopped.

---

Definitely interesting, I know some of the lingering aspects can take as long as 6 months to abate. Good on him to recognize the trigger.

FDA Authorizes Booster Dose of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine for Certain Populations

Linkage

Who should get COVID-19 boosters first? CDC committee set to vote Thursday – but only on Pfizer vaccine


Linkage

Whoa. You mean if I get this I may have to stop drinking??????!!!!!!

Man, I am not leaving the house. You guys let me know when this is over.

Talked to a neighbor I had not seen out for a while. He had Covid last year. Got the pfizer shots. Got Covid three weeks ago again. Still has no senses of taste and smell and was miserable, "like my head was on fire" for almost a week. Hospital is getting positive cases in patients who weren't positive when admitted and also staff so it is semi locking down. It ain't goin away.

CDC director recommends COVID-19 booster for younger at-risk workers, defying advisory panel

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dan_bgblue

CDC director recommends COVID-19 booster for younger at-risk workers, defying advisory panel

---

The CDC director is assuming Biden knows more than science… That sure makes the CDC continue to look unbiased.

Biden's medical advice is likely as high quality as his advice on how to deal with home intrusions.

Citizen, the biggest mistake in this ordeal, of which there are scores, was the suspension of the J&J vaccine rollout. Our march to 70% died that day. People who were leery of vaccines or plain scared of shots were pushed over the edge. After that debacle the vaccination rate dropped. It is only now start to recover. But, it is not because the science changed. It’s because those who are leery or afraid are being forced to walk the plank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MickintheHam

Citizen, the biggest mistake in this ordeal, of which there are scores, was the suspension of the J&J vaccine rollout. Our march to 70% died that day. People who were leery of vaccines or plain scared of shots were pushed over the edge. After that debacle the vaccination rate dropped. It is only now start to recover. But, it is not because the science changed. It’s because those who are leery or afraid are being forced to walk the plank.

---

The J&J suspension and the Fauci/Biden crusade with mandating vaccines both had a chilling impact on vaccinations.

I got the booster today… I hope the reaction is a lot less than I had with the 2nd poke.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Got up this morning exhausted and achy, laid back down at 7:00 and woke up at 11:00… still a little achy and run down. For me the booster wasn’t nearly as rough than the 2nd Pfizer shot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Covid Will Soon Be Endemic, Thank Goodness
Widespread immunity, vaccinated and natural, will bring control and a full return to normal.


This is taken from the wall street journal. I hate stealing info from legit publications, but past links to the WSJ have prompted a lot of that link does not work for me, so I am doing a copy and paste of this article as it provides a lot of info that I think will be beneficial to my friends here, and also to prompt folks to investigate the subscription prices for this stellar publication.

Covid-19 will soon become endemic—and the sooner the better.

An epidemic causes widespread disease in a region. A pandemic affects multiple countries or continents. A disease becomes endemic when it is manageable—defined, for instance, as not causing an undue burden on hospitals or other healthcare resources—but is unlikely to be eliminated because of the pathogen’s inherent properties.

Australia, China and New Zealand have pursued “zero Covid” policies that aim at elimination (reducing incidence in a region to zero) or even eradication (world-wide elimination). That goal is unrealistic. Smallpox is the only human disease that has ever been eradicated. The smallpox virus has had four properties that made it eradicable: the lack of an animal reservoir, clear and distinctive signs and symptoms, a short period of infectiousness, and both lifelong natural immunity after survival and a highly effective vaccine.

SARS-CoV-2, by contrast, is unlikely to be eradicated. It has animal reservoirs, a high level of transmissibility (especially of the Delta variant), and overlapping symptoms with other respiratory diseases. It has, as well, a prolonged period of infectiousness, caused by its propensity to spread from asymptomatic or presymptomatic carriers.

That’s why reducing the disease from epidemic to endemic is the best case—one that will allow a full return to normal. Many ineradicable infections are controlled by vaccination and treatment. Measles, a highly transmissible respiratory virus, created high levels of immunity among adults who were exposed as children. But until a vaccine was developed in 1963, some nonimmune adults died every year. Pertussis (whooping cough) is caused by a highly contagious bacterium (with syndromes that overlap some respiratory viruses), but it is controlled in the U.S. through vaccination of children, antibiotics and other treatments. (Vaccine hesitancy among parents in the U.S., however, has led to outbreaks of both pertussis and measles over the past decade.)

Officials tried a wide array of measures to control SARS-CoV-2: masks, social distancing, lockdowns, travel restrictions, ventilation, testing, contact tracing. These had varying levels of success but ultimately proved insufficient to control the virus in a sustained way. That will require widespread immunity. Fortunately, safe and effective vaccines were developed for SARS-CoV-2 in record time. These vaccines are the key to turning Covid-19 into an endemic but controlled communicable disease.

Control means the reduction of serious disease, not of asymptomatic or mild cases. Since the vaccines are remarkably effective in preventing severe disease from Covid-19—what made SARS-CoV-2 a global threat—they can serve as the conduit for control.

Antibodies generated by the vaccines will naturally wane, but the vaccines trigger the creation of B cells that get relegated to our memory banks, and these memory B cells produce high levels of neutralizing antibodies if they see the virus again, even in variant form. Memory B cells are long-lasting. A 2008 Nature study found that survivors of the 1918 flu pandemic were able to produce antibodies when exposed to the same influenza strain nine decades later. T cells (also put into cell memory) generated by the vaccines protect us from severe disease and are unfazed by variants.

What would endemic Covid-19 look like? If we can tamp down the virus’s circulation and reduce its ability to cause severe disease through widespread vaccination, the world will be able to return to normal. Outbreaks of severe disease will occur among populations unwilling to be vaccinated, as we see with measles and pertussis, but mandates can help increase vaccination rates.

As circulation of the virus decreases with increasing immunity, Covid-19 will go the way of other respiratory viruses over which we have control. We will test those who arrive at the hospital for a variety of infections—including influenza, Covid-19, respiratory syncytial virus (mainly in children) and bacterial pathogens—and tailor treatments to the infectious agent. Moderate respiratory symptoms of Covid-19 in the outpatient setting may be treated with monoclonal antibodies or outpatient antivirals (under development), and mild symptoms (like other common colds) won’t require treatment.

The burden of disease a country is willing to accept will depend on its priorities: Denmark dropped all restrictions at a 74% vaccination rate and low cases on Sept. 10, and Norway dropped them on Sept. 25 at a 67% vaccination rate. Many U.S. states had an undue burden of hospitalization during the Delta wave, although California is keeping restrictions in place despite low hospitalization and high vaccination rates. We will need to accept that the noneradicable disease is endemic. A low burden of disease should facilitate the transition.

Although SARS-CoV-2 has proved unpredictable, no virus in history has ever continued to evolve to higher pathogenicity. As we learned from HIV, mutations usually incur costs to viral fitness or render the virus weaker. No vaccine-preventable or immunity-inducing infection has ever raged on as a pandemic indefinitely. An endemic virus doesn’t require continuing isolation and other restrictions; defanging SARS-CoV-2 by stripping it of its ability to cause severe disease through immunity will relegate it to the fate of the other four circulating cold-causing coronaviruses. The key to this normalcy is immunity. With a highly transmissible variant driving up immunity in the unvaccinated and bolstering it in the vaccinated, Covid-19 will inevitably make the transition from epidemic to endemic.

Dr. Gandhi is an infectious-disease physician and professor of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco.

Very interesting read Dan, and I agree. We won't eliminate it any more than we can any other coronavirus variant, but we can control it and prevent it from causing widespread death.

The problem is that, with the lack of vaccination, it will be longer than necessary and will kill more as those who aren't vaccinated gradually get it and either die from it or, hopefully, develop natural immunity.

I haven't seen any projections on when that will happen, but it will happen eventually.

If I disappear on Sunday afternoon, blame it on the booster Jab. Appointments for the booster here in BG are really limited and if I wanted to get the booster jab at Walgreen, which is where I get stabbed for pneumonia and the flu, it would have to be this Sunday at 1:15 or wait until the day after Halloween.

Cancer nurse practitioner said “go get two jabs of mrna to go with J&J.” Just don’t know if I’m makin enuff antibodies yet

Wife got booster yesterday, she’s down today with no energy, and body is achy… not just shoulder pain…Pfizer, same as me last week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OK Pedro, curious as to your opinion.

I apparently am eligible for the Pfizer booster (I'm on Team Pfizer from getting it at the Ky Horse Park the first time). Been 7 months since my 2nd shot.

I'm signed up to get it Monday, presuming they don't reject me for some reason once I get there, but I qualified on their online signup.

Thoughts on getting it? Re-reading your excellent post above I agree it's about whether you're trying to avoid hospitalization or trying to reduce chance of even having Covid, though obviously both are impacted.

I have no desire to have Covid, have tried to be careful despite things easing some, though I was never going to cower either. That's why I got the vaccine as soon as I was eligible, b/c I won't/Can't just stay locked down but I'd like to be able to taste my food for the rest of my life too.

So right now my significant other and I are on board to get it, but open to your opinions/suggestions.

Also if you have the winning lotto numbers, that would be great too. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

OK Pedro, curious as to your opinion.

I apparently am eligible for the Pfizer booster (I'm on Team Pfizer from getting it at the Ky Horse Park the first time). Been 7 months since my 2nd shot.

I'm signed up to get it Monday, presuming they don't reject me for some reason once I get there, but I qualified on their online signup.

Thoughts on getting it? Re-reading your excellent post above I agree it's about whether you're trying to avoid hospitalization or trying to reduce chance of even having Covid, though obviously both are impacted.

I have no desire to have Covid, have tried to be careful despite things easing some, though I was never going to cower either. That's why I got the vaccine as soon as I was eligible, b/c I won't/Can't just stay locked down but I'd like to be able to taste my food for the rest of my life too.

So right now my significant other and I are on board to get it, but open to your opinions/suggestions.

Also if you have the winning lotto numbers, that would be great too. :)

---

If you are trying to avoid infection, then some the data coming out recently definitely supports the booster. In particular the Kaiser Permanente study released a week or so ago was VERY telling. Mainly due to the shear breadth of the data available. The takeaway was extremely high effectively (80-90%+) against severe covid (or worse) but the effectively against mildly symptotic infection (which includes what is commonly called asymptotic, a misnomer) has dropped A LOT.

Before 01/2020 I would think having congestion, runny nose, and sneezing a head cold/sinus infection. Now that’s exactly what I’m experiencing and even though I’ve had both shots and the booster (10 days ago) I feel like if I don’t get tested for rona I’m being irresponsible.

…so even though, I don’t have an elevated temperature, no aches/pains, no respiratory distress (other than congestion) , still have taste and smell, I guess I’ll drag my butt down tomorrow morning for a covid test. All while masking up and quarantining until test results are returned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's annoying. there's a head cold going around. A few of the staff have had it including myself. We all got tested to be safe, but it's just a head cold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PedroDaGr8

If you are trying to avoid infection, then some the data coming out recently definitely supports the booster. In particular the Kaiser Permanente study released a week or so ago was VERY telling. Mainly due to the shear breadth of the data available. The takeaway was extremely high effectively (80-90%+) against severe covid (or worse) but the effectively against mildly symptotic infection (which includes what is commonly called asymptotic, a misnomer) has dropped A LOT.

---

Thanks Pedro.

My view is I've taken two shots, no issues, and this will definitely up my resistance, esp. since as you point out the effectiveness against getting it has dropped a lot, though its effectiveness for making it a milder case is still good.

I figure it won't hurt any more than the other two, and if it keeps me from getting it at all I'm good with that.

Though I have this suspicion that, like other viruses before it, this will eventually just be something everyone gets in some variant or another.

Shot yesterday, minor pain in arm this morning. Otherwise as fit as a 67 year old should feel. Not tired, taste buds still work, coffee actually tastes a bit better this morning. no stuffiness. etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dan_bgblue

Shot yesterday, minor pain in arm this morning. Otherwise as fit as a 67 year old should feel. Not tired, taste buds still work, coffee actually tastes a bit better this morning. no stuffiness. etc.

---

:happy0001:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

Thanks Pedro.

My view is I've taken two shots, no issues, and this will definitely up my resistance, esp. since as you point out the effectiveness against getting it has dropped a lot, though its effectiveness for making it a milder case is still good.

I figure it won't hurt any more than the other two, and if it keeps me from getting it at all I'm good with that.

Though I have this suspicion that, like other viruses before it, this will eventually just be something everyone gets in some variant or another.

---

Damn, I clearly edited that message on my phone a bit too much. I know it is obvious for you, but to be clear effectively=effectivity. Also, "...asymptotic, a misnomer" should have been "...asymptotic, often a misnomer".

Anyways, hope that you were able to get your booster shot.

My wife got hers yesterday evening. So far, she just has a sore arm and notable swelling/tenderness in the lymph nodes under the arm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dan_bgblue

Shot yesterday, minor pain in arm this morning. Otherwise as fit as a 67 year old should feel. Not tired, taste buds still work, coffee actually tastes a bit better this morning. no stuffiness. etc.

---

Glad you were able to get your booster. It is hitting the wife a bit less hard than last time so far but she hasn't hit 24hours yet. For shot 2, 24 hours was when the bottom fell out.

Pedro, it was all clear to me, and much appreciated.

Yes, got my booster and they did my flu shot at the same time. They said it was fine together, otherwise I have to wait 2 weeks. Hope they are right. CDC says they are, I looked, but those guys are kinda shifty. ;)

Arm hurts, starting to get a headache, but so far that's it. All good so far.

FDA approves boosters for Moderna and J&J. They also approved the mixing and matching boosters. CDC-ACIP meets tomorrow and will likely approve the same.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

Early adopter. This week I Added a mrna shot to my winter J&J.