Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Doc

Might be an urban lengend or a marketing strategy from the makers of tylenol, but I will keep on acetomin (excedrin migraine) which I have been taking due to a 3 day migraine

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I’m more concerned at this point with the lisinopril I take for hbp. From Infection Control Today:

There is mounting consensus that ACE inhibitors may be a primary driver of the severe symptoms. The concerns were originally raised in the Lancet.2 ACE inhibitors up regulate (increase) the ACE2 receptor. This is the receptor the COVID-19 virus uses to attack the lungs.

Of course they aren’t going to tell everyone to stop taking their blood pressure meds but this has me really concerned. A couple of months ago I got my MD to drop my dosage from 20 mg to 10, which is what my wife takes. I’m about to start cutting them in half.

New York up to 2372 cases per million.

I dont take lisinopril anymore. I take losartan. Same kind of thing right?

President Trump was talking about possibly doing a mandatory quarantine around New York, New Jersey, etc. I agree with that but I feel like it should have been done 2 weeks ago. He said it was after talking to the Gov of Florida as too many New Yorkers were going there. But its too late Imo.

Again, I just think we need a 2 week-30 day shut down all across the country. That is the only way to get ahead of this thing instead of playing catch up. This thing is everywhere. Its in every state. And unless people stay home its going to keep spreading.

Once we are “ahead of it”
Then what? See “flattening the curve” seems the same as “postponing the inevitable”.

Hopefully when the time comes many get the virus there are adequate personnel and medical supplies to keep us alive as well as breakthroughs in treatment.

Im in no hurry to test the capacity of our State's medical system. (Although there is room for argument sooner is maybe better for those considered..expendable)

As for the unemployment question. I do not believe that six hundred dollar bump will extend beyond three and a half months unless another such stimulus bill is passed.

And I would think that if allowed back to work and anyone refused, they will lose their benefit and the ten grand would still become a grant.
The incentive remains to work if so.

Certainly not a boon for the employer by any stretch, but maybe a tool to make the best of the situation for some.

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Originally Posted by bigsky

Once we are “ahead of it”
Then what? See “flattening the curve” seems the same as “postponing the inevitable”.

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Absolutely. That is what it is. Its postponing the inevitable.

But two major things are accomplished:

1. We buy crucial time = this spreads out people contracting it and not overloading the hospitals. It allows crucial medical equipment to be purchased or made (masks, gowns, ventilators, etc). It allows time for more testing on medicine (NY is testing 1,000 patients right now with the drug Trump talked about) to find some that work to treat the virus. And if we find one that works, it allows it to be made. It allows more time to create the vaccine (which is certainly a year away but at least we get closer). And it gets us warmer weather which they are hoping helps flatten the curve as well (I am skeptical on this but it can't hurt).
All of these things above would save thousands of lives.

2. It allows us to quarantine outbreaks as they occur. Without transmission, much of the virus will be killed. But once things begin to "go back to normal", it begins to spread again. BUT...we will then (because of #1) have the broad testing we need (and Imo should have had all along). We would be able to test people en mass and shut down smaller areas vs the entire economy. IT begins a more targeted approach.

The bottom line is that our economy will never get going again until this thing is defeated. Never. People will be scared. They will largely avoid retail and restaurants and bars, etc. In two weeks from now, thousands will be dying a day. We will be reading about loved ones and friends dying on twitter and Facebook. It becomes personal and real. There is no way the economy is humming again in that scenario.
But if we can largely kill it with a National Quarantine, and then prepare, prepare, prepare. People can slowly get back to normal. IT would be a new normal for a while but we can test and treat with much more efficiency.

Imo, its the only real way to deal with this.

I just continue to revert back to the chart I have looked at every day (I have to have my ocd obsession with stats and analytics fueled with something else since Sports is shut down). This chart CLEARLY shows how well the shut downs work.
We are days away from Florida, Illinois and Louisiana passing California in total cases. Those states have been extremely slow in doing a statewide lockdown. California was the first. And we did so with far fewer cases than any other state.

Once its lifted, no doubt it will spread like crazy here. But, we will be FAR more prepared to handle it. Testing. Hospitals. Etc. I am very anxious about the amount of deaths we are likely to see in some of these states. And it could have been avoided. Yes, they will be "beyond the curve" faster than California. But there will be thousands dead because of it.

Attachment 9277

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Originally Posted by bigsky

I dont take lisinopril anymore. I take losartan. Same kind of thing right?

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Losartan is an “ARB” which unfortunately they think may cause the same issues. We may have to try old fashioned diuretics or beta blockers.

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Originally Posted by kingcat

As for the unemployment question. I do not believe that six hundred dollar bump will extend beyond three and a half months unless another such stimulus bill is passed.

And I would think that if allowed back to work and anyone refused, they will lose their benefit and the ten grand would still become a grant.
The incentive remains to work if so.

Certainly not a boon for the employer by any stretch, but maybe a tool to make the best of the situation for some.

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Right now the bump is short term.

And yes if you call an employee back and they don't come then they have "quit" and are not going to get UE.

It's not the end of the world the way it's done, but had it capped at 100% of salary that would make WAY more sense.

The biggest issue is employees would rather be laid off than work. Most want to do some kind of work, but to get a raise and not work? Big incentive.

And in fact even with the SBA money it may pay employers to do it. You can bring people back for so many hours, so if you're slack right now you lay people off, bring them in limited hours. That comes out of their state UE, but not the $600 bonus, so net they are ahead and your payroll is way down.

The SBA money as I read it requires holding everyone on payroll through June 30, and doesn't even forgive enough to cover even your payroll through that period (about 3 months right now).

Still digging through it all, but right now the way Congress wrote it you'll see MORE unemployment I think, not less b/c of this bill.

I think you can get the SBA $10K without having to retain, so you lay off, take your smaller but no strings attached grant, and you'll be better off if this lasts 90 days.

Now if it only lasts 30 or 60 then SBA may pay, but who is willing to bet their business that this is done in 30 or no more than 60 days?

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

Right now the bump is short term.

And yes if you call an employee back and they don't come then they have "quit" and are not going to get UE.

It's not the end of the world the way it's done, but had it capped at 100% of salary that would make WAY more sense.

The biggest issue is employees would rather be laid off than work. Most want to do some kind of work, but to get a raise and not work? Big incentive.

And in fact even with the SBA money it may pay employers to do it. You can bring people back for so many hours, so if you're slack right now you lay people off, bring them in limited hours. That comes out of their state UE, but not the $600 bonus, so net they are ahead and your payroll is way down.

The SBA money as I read it requires holding everyone on payroll through June 30, and doesn't even forgive enough to cover even your payroll through that period (about 3 months right now).

Still digging through it all, but right now the way Congress wrote it you'll see MORE unemployment I think, not less b/c of this bill.

I think you can get the SBA $10K without having to retain, so you lay off, take your smaller but no strings attached grant, and you'll be better off if this lasts 90 days.

Now if it only lasts 30 or 60 then SBA may pay, but who is willing to bet their business that this is done in 30 or no more than 60 days?

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Gotcha. I'm certain there will be increased unemployment because of it. I have to believe it will still be a huge help to a large portion of working Americans.

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Originally Posted by kingcat

Gotcha. I'm certain there will be increased unemployment because of it. I have to believe it will still be a huge help to a large portion of working Americans.

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It's a bill we needed, I've been rabid about getting it done, but it's got some obvious flaws.

It clearly incentivizes layoffs versus retention. It does some to help retention, but not enough compared to what it does for layoffs. That's to be expected, politically they'll get more votes from what they are doing. that's their math.

It's far better than nothing, and we had no choice but to do something fast, so it's good, but there will be a lot of consequences from it they didn't expect.

Here's a GIS map of where those spring breakers just on Ft. Lauderdale beach went and took their germs:

https://twitter.com/TectonixGEO/stat...ad-from-travel

You have to wait for them to zoom in, pick a sample, and then the map. It's the last half or so of the video.

The ability to do that is not surprising in this day and age.

But still fascinating to me.

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Originally Posted by Catfan73

Losartan is an “ARB” which unfortunately they think may cause the same issues. We may have to try old fashioned diuretics or beta blockers.

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I take lisinopril and I’ve read as much as I can about this. The bottom line is any concern about increased risk is speculative at this point. Also, apparently it is possible that this class of medication could help battle against COVID-19 rather than creating a higher risk for serious illness.

CBBN you waited to long. The Keys have been closed for the duration.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-s...nother-hotspot


https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxne....jpg?ve=1&tl=1

That started yesterday. If your ID doesn’t show residence in Monroe County or necessary presence there, you couldn’t enter. That pic is on US 41 about 40 miles from where I’m at..

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Originally Posted by dan_bgblue

CBBN you waited to long. The Keys have been closed for the duration.


https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxne....jpg?ve=1&tl=1

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Yep. Hoping they do OK.

I'll be back when this is over.

Now's not the time I guess, but when this thing's over, whenever that is, the world needs to have a reckoning with China. They shut down the wet markets after SARS but then allowed them to reopen, starting this latest cycle. Then they concealed it and punished the doctors who tried to warn the world what was happening. Now this:

Attachment 9278

https://twitter.com/smithmarion/stat...65745451069446

China is going all out to spin this disaster, but it's on them. On them b/c of their handling of it, and further it should awaken us that having them make our stuff is a really bad idea.

China is making me turn from libertarian to merchantilist.

Nothing to see here.....

“Delivery of 5,000 URNS to funeral home in coronavirus epicentre Wuhan raises fears China is underplaying nation's official 3,300 death toll”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eath-toll.html

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Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof

Nothing to see here.....

“Delivery of 5,000 URNS to funeral home in coronavirus epicentre Wuhan raises fears China is underplaying nation's official 3,300 death toll”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eath-toll.html

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Right up there with their claim they don't have any concentration camps.

They have had SO many more deaths from this thing. Can't trust a thing they say, or a product they make. Only good thing they ever sold abroad were their surplus guns, and those were banned for import decades ago.

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

Yep. Hoping they do OK.

I'll be back when this is over.

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Apparently it was temporary and the roadblocks may come down as early as tonight:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.mia...241587261.html

which I think is too bad. If the Governor isn't going to get tough, counties and cities should be able to.

The gov pulled state troopers from the road blocks.

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Originally Posted by KSRBEvans

Apparently it was temporary and the roadblocks may come down as early as tonight:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.mia...241587261.html

which I think is too bad. If the Governor isn't going to get tough, counties and cities should be able to.

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Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof

The gov pulled state troopers from the road blocks.

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What a dimwit. When you get on that bridge headed south you are driving into a gigantic funnel that concentrates people into smaller and smaller areas. When you get to the tip of the funnel, you have noting to do but get out for drinks, food and watching other people doing the same thing.

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

Right up there with their claim they don't have any concentration camps.

They have had SO many more deaths from this thing. Can't trust a thing they say, or a product they make. Only good thing they ever sold abroad were their surplus guns, and those were banned for import decades ago.

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Citizen, do you have email where I could send you a question. I tried to message you and told me your inbox is full. I need some advice. Thanks.

Ghetto

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Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof

The gov pulled state troopers from the road blocks.

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Your governor is an idiot. He has no idea what hell is coming for him.

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Originally Posted by Catfan73

Losartan is an “ARB” which unfortunately they think may cause the same issues. We may have to try old fashioned diuretics or beta blockers.

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Thank you

Citizen, do you have email where I could send you a question. I tried to message you and told me your inbox is full. I need some advice. Thanks.

Ghetto

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Originally Posted by CitizenBBN

Your governor is an idiot. He has no idea what hell is coming for him.

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He really is. I have family and good friends in Florida (and some from this board). It pisses me off seeing what they did.
I gave Trump hell for not taking this serious enough but this is even worse because he has too much evidence showing otherwise.
A lot of people are going to die because he’s an idiot.

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Originally Posted by ukpumacat

He really is. I have family and good friends in Florida (and some from this board). It pisses me off seeing what they did.
I gave Trump hell for not taking this serious enough but this is even worse because he has too much evidence showing otherwise.
A lot of people are going to die because he’s an idiot.

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I might debate responses even into February, but at this point it's beyond dispute. The biggest hold out in New York was De Blasio and he's been on board for a while now while Florida continues to put its thumb in its ear.

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Originally Posted by GhettoBird

Citizen, do you have email where I could send you a question. I tried to message you and told me your inbox is full. I need some advice. Thanks.

Ghetto

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I cleaned out Inbox if you prefer that, or email me, chuck@bluegrassauction.com

New York up to 3058 cases per million of state population. That is roughly twice what the rate per million is in Italy....

142K U.S. cases. It was roughly half that 5 days ago, and doubling every 5 days somehow feels like an improvement.

It may just be a blip, but daily new cases and daily deaths are down, too.

Attachment 9279

Attachment 9280

I guess the question is, does the initial increase reflect a period of more testing or is this an actual slowing of the spread.

Either way, it seems a positive.

Honestly I'm more interested in the curve with New York excluded at this point as it skews the national results so much. Not that they aren't all running out of new york and infecting the rest of us.

^I basically agree with you, but I'm worried that as other hot spots emerge (Florida, I'm looking at you) we'll find more rationales to exclude this or that. Plus until there's a way to throw up roadblocks or do other hard quarantines, the free travel in our country ties us all together.

Florida has instituted roadblocks on roads into the state advising of 14 day self quarantine for out of state plates entering the state..

^I'm afraid those are useless as long as they're (a) letting people in and (b) trusting people to do their own quarantine. They're going to ignore that like they ignored the advisories (not orders) to stay off beaches.