Printable View
Not sure if you’ve seen them, but several class action lawsuits have now been filed against Fox News (and Trump but those will go nowhere) for downplaying the Coronavirus for weeks.
This isn’t pretty looking back on it.
https://twitter.com/ldog562/status/1...491342849?s=21
Call me when the class action suits for the remaining media pushing the Russian hoax for 2.5 years get some traction in the courts. can I sue for the absurd impeachment distracting the nation and Trump fro this virus? That's their spin, maybe we should sue, lol.
Media cover what they want and with the spin they want. It's not actionable.
Nor is having an opinion on the future. Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong. SARS and MERS were going to do this and then petered out, which laid the groundwork for dismissing this one.
I’m not an attorney, but wonder if these might have any legs at all for families of those that have died?
I read an article saying that Fox brass were concerned and it’s why they fired Trish Regan.
If the law suits can be adjudicated under the eyes of the 9th Circuit I guarantee an examination by the SCOTUS, otherwise I do not think the request of legal action gets much, if any traction.
Fox is for sure the most visible media source to report the downplaying of the virus outbreak, but they have plenty of lesser know publications that also took a dim view of the hand wringing hysteria we have seen in the past couple of months.
POTUS I agree with. He was mostly just deceived and unprepared imo.
Fox news should be liable for lying to support an ideology of deceit and contributing mightily to the spread of the virus and the deaths and sickness of many Americans.
And we all know there was no actual reporting of the facts coming from that arm of propaganda.
No argument that there aren't others...but FOX is culpable for putting millions of lives on the line, damaging national security, causing the sickness and deaths of many, and acting as an enemy of the United States.
And rather than argue the point further I would direct any argument (generally speaking) to those on the front line and their families. As well as the dead, dying, and sick due to their willing negligence.
There are a few of those here at this site.
Hopefully when this thing subsides, the government will take a look at those who contributed to the tragedy for power and profit. The nation will be ready for it at that point.
There will be a national benefit come from this battle.
And as Moses called for each person to take a permanent stance on the side of right or on the side of wrong. A day of reckoning is coming I believe for them, and others.
And a reckoning not separated by, or limited to, political party.
I'll play.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingcat
Who do the Iraqi war families sue? Who do the people killed by Iranian militias sue after we sent them billions to fund those organizations? Can I sue the heirs of LBJ for the Vietnam war?
The entire argument is specious. For there to be a case in tort there would have to be either a) malicious intent or b) negligence or gross negligence.
This would fall under gross negligence b/c you'll never prove Fox or anyone WANTED people to die, b/c it's untrue. OK, so that means that now you have say within the practices of their industry that anyone in that position would have reasonably known this was a real threat and that they wantonly disregarded the evidence for their own gain.
As well as then establishing that they actually are culpable for the actions of people who watch their news and that they otherwise would have been distancing in February, which is also really hard to prove.
THe problem is that case cannot be won b/c all you have to do is look at the actions of the FDA and CDC at that same time, who were also extremely slow to respond to the threat.
As you said, and I agree, the President has been following the recommendations of his agencies, and they clearly weren't in a panic over this in January and into February. If they weren't how is Fox news culpable?
Then there is the obvious First Amendment issue. Media are entitled to their opinion. Again, can we sue for the media who believed in the Vietnam war? The Iraq War?
Can we sue CNN for focusing on impeachment for all of January instead of covering the virus? Fox downplayed it, but CNN didn't really report on it at all. Shouldn't they be responsible somewhat for having not warned people? They were as obsessed with their agenda as Fox is with theirs.
It's absurd on its face. Fox isn't concerned about losing the case. They're concerned about the bad PR of it, and potentially getting a wacko judge who goes against them so they have to drag this thing through appeal while CNN and MSNBC gleefully cover it 24/7.
Legally there's no case IMO b/c the standard would basically require you find emails from Fox executives ordering people to downplay it while proving they knew it was a threat. See the Ford Pinto case that made Nader's career.
But there is a PR embarrassment for them to get such a huge story wrong, and that's their concern.
But in that area IMO the FDA at least was also just as wrong, and I'm betting the CDC and others were too.
I'll further qualify and say I am an attorney but don't work in this area of the law. But from my little corner of the world I think this is borderline frivolous and will be dismissed at some point. (Well, would be dismissed if it was filed anywhere other than a 9th Circuit jurisdiction.) It doesn't seem to state a claim upon which relief can be granted.Quote:
Originally Posted by ukpumacat
I'm not a lawyer at all, but at least when you look at the basics of the law, basic torts and negligence, which IMO is where this would fall, I just don't see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KSRBEvans
I'll be curious to see if anyone has an angle to play on it that is 'passable, but the broad brush of "I was hurt and therefore X is responsible" isn't really how torts work, at least depending on the judge.
I had a business law prof who was a practicing attorney who told us about "Handsome Al, the Plaintiff's pal", a judge in Louisiana famous for siding with almost every plaintiff in tort cases. So they're out there, but the black letter reading tells me there's a long way to go for this to be any kind of case.
And if they win then I want to sue a bunch of people for all the bad advice they've dispensed over the years. lol
Fox's speech, like all of ours, is protected by the 1st Amendment. If the theory is Fox announcers lied (i.e., knew the truth and said something false, anyway), the Plaintiffs have the burden of proving that. Saying something that later turns out to be wrong isn't a lie. They may have been stupid for saying it, but stupid isn't a cause of action. ;)
So when Mayor De Blasio and others in high placements within NY government tell the public to ride the subway, eat out, live your lives etc.... and Fox reports on that and the remedy is a lawsuit? Gotcha....
https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/03/...re-5-examples/
There are great videos of De Blasio and others in NY telling people it's a hoax as well, and to go to the ethnic celebrations, etc., and that it's racist to not go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof
Hindsight is 20/20. Given what has happened I'm not sure ANY news source gave it proper coverage and warning. Some downplayed it more than others, but some barely covered it. Did CNN and MSNBC cheer "About time!" when Trump restricted Chinese travel? Uh, no. They reported on the politicians who called it racist.
No media covered this with the vision to see what was going to happen, and no politician did either. Some responded faster than others, but no one was ahead of it.
Remember January 20th we were still wrapping up impeachment, and it was Pelosi who drug that out for weeks while this crisis was brewing in China.
Biden's response to Trump's travel restrictions was to call it "zenophobic", though his staff (who pull all of Biden's strings) say that tweet wasn't about the travel restrictions. Uh sure.
Do we sue them all?
Maybe we can ask reparations from the Brits and French for sending back US troops with the mutated Spanish flu virus that killed about 700K. Jeez.
Legalities aside, since there has been no modern day precedent nor investigation, we know Fox has let some go recently likely because of it.
Yet there is literally no excuse and certainly no moral defense for endangering the lives of Americans by using lies for political reasons. For either political "side". The gravity of this situation far surpasses anything I can recall at least since the Vietnam war
And the black and white of that is exactly what I'm addressing. So either defend the reports that went directly against common knowledge of the situation or condemn them.
There is no such indignation in condemning other news sites here which support a certain political opinion, and for much, much less. The defense of such reporting is transparently hollow imho.
The FCC prohibits broadcasting false information about a crime or a catastrophe if the broadcaster knows the information is false and will cause substantial "public harm" if aired.
FCC rules specifically say that "the public harm: must begin immediately and cause direct and actual damage to property or the health or safety of the general public; or divert law enforcement or public health and safety authorities from their duties."
Broadcasters may air disclaimers that clearly characterize programming as fiction to avoid violating FCC rules about public harm.
Broadcasting false content during news programming
The FCC is prohibited by law from engaging in censorship or infringing on First Amendment rights of the press. It is, however, illegal for broadcasters to intentionally distort the news, and the FCC may act on complaints if there is documented evidence of such behavior from persons with direct personal knowledge.
And just when I thought this was the apex of stupidity, the left manages to outdo themselves on the ridiculousness meter
Dem lawmaker wants Trump prosecuted at international court for 'crimes against humanity'
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dem...ainst-humanity
Crimes against humanity for touting hydroxyquinalone. Somebody actually votes these people into office
You're assuming they consciously thought they were lying for political gain and knowingly endangering people. Tell me, do you have next week's lottery numbers too?
As my first witness for the defense I call the FDA, which at the same time was not in any way changing their protocols for testing. As experts in the field they clearly didn't think it was this level of crisis at the time, so why would a bunch of dumb reporters?
Under your interpretation we should sue CNN for the Russia hoax. It was known to be false from the outset, and no doubt has hurt American national security and our ability to conduct foreign relations. Can we sue for the impeachment coverage b/c it "diverted" the focus of officials? That clause is there for things like falsely reporting a fire, not questions of political perspective.
Here's a news flash: ALL news is distorted. All of it. All for agendas and political purposes and it is all tainted by the personal views of those reporting it. Funny enough not one of them THINKS it is false what they are doing, b/c they lack the perceptive ability to see it.
This is sophistry. The whole world was misled by the Chinese. The Italians gave PPE to china b/c they had no idea how bad things would get there. Are they to be sued? No, the entire world is suffering from them.
It's not Fox News fault, or Trump's fault, or Pelosi's fault. The only people who had the knowledge and power to change the course of this, with definitive certainty, are the totalitarian SOBs who are now trying to turn it into a political win.
No more legs than environmentalists would have against Obama for his handling of the deepwater horizon fiasco. Or the thousands who died fron H1N1, or any of the victims of the WTC attack would have against Bush. Or any of the NY dead heirs would have against Cuomo who encouraged citizens to go to mpvie theaters early in the epidemic.Quote:
Originally Posted by ukpumacat
We elect a president. Not Nostradamus or Miss Cleo.
She's evidently graduated the Trump school for tweeting dumb stuff.
The government could make an example of the source of the lie. Much like they did during the Russia fiasco. Prosecute the individual who told the lie till they were bankrupt.
They just need to do it once too and nearly all the political theatrics would cease.
I like that idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof
Plus videos of Pelosi inviting everyone to SF’s Chinatown to prove they weren’t afraid of a virus.Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenBBN
Fauci wasn’t very concerned about the virus in February.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ds/4787209002/
Yeah.... there is no playbook on this, and I have and continued to see an over reaction but have stayed away from that whole discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithKSR
No one was sounding the big alarm bells when Trump restricted travel, and for 2-3 weeks after. Yet Fox News is culpable?Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithKSR
these kinds of things are just silly, and distract from the obvious group that in fact does have a huge amount of blame to bear: the Chinese government.
Alarms were being sounded....about Trump’s travel policy being racist...
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenBBN
That was an extremely important fact. We all know that viruses can be pointedly racistQuote:
Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof
They have all started in China the last 10 years. Very racist.Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_bgblue
I just don't see grounds with the First Amendment. And not all of Fox was pushing that. Tucker Carlson had one of the more thoughtful and relatively early* warnings to the American people.
There will be time to discuss our response at the Federal, state, and local levels. There will be time to judge the government. Anything that is quick to try and pass judgment or what seems like justice now I don't think is effective.
We need to triage the situation and increase what we are doing. We need to distribute resources more quickly and get this thing licked to get back to work and life.
I"m including this article, which sounds detrimental to the POTUS, but makes the broader point well, that a) Trump was not being told about the seriousness of this from his advisors, and b) a LOT of other sources were also dismissing its severity. In this case it references articles in the Washington Post.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/why-ea...e-were-ignored
It also makes my broader point, which is that there has yet to be a major event in our history where there weren't some voices sounding the alarm, but they were missed or dismissed. 9/11 we had memos warning of suspicious activity with flight training. Financial crisis have been predicted, and I used the Pearl Harbor example.
This has happened throughout history. Many of these things we do catch. We've thwarted many terrorist attacks over the years, but we haven't caught them all. In hindsight the concern seems clear, yet it just wasn't acted on to stop it.
Another great example is school shootings. How many times did we find out that the shooter had made threats, had all the warning signs and was ignored?
It happens all the time at every level. Now, there's a point at which you have to say "OK, that was too obvious to be missed" and hold people culpable, but often what you see in things like this is lots of conflicting info. Trump had a few voices sounding alarms, but most around him thought the risk was either small or certainly less than what it became, including many career people like Fauci.
At this point, when numerous officials and media on all sides were downplaying the risk for at least as long as the POTUS, and some like De Blasio downplaying it even longer, I just don't see culpability here. Trump's opponents want to play this like there was some outcry at the highest levels of media and government to act and he refused. That Fox was the only media downplaying the risk while everyone else was shouting about the threat from the top of their lungs. That's just not what happened.
In fact his one action was roundly critiqued in much of the media and by other leaders, as is everything he does.
He will be judged on how he responds to this, just as was Bush II with 9/11 and FDR with Pearl Harbor, not the fact that he didn't see it coming. What matters is the here and now in a crisis, and so far he's doing an adequate job.
The biggest problems, testing and equipment shortages, are not going to be solved by Executive Order, and it's unclear just how far out in front he could have gotten given that the Chinese were knowingly hoarding PPE for weeks and maybe months before the rest of the world found out how severe this would become.