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how come?
Personally I don't think the intent of the action was all that bad if it had be more focused. However once again the law and constitution seems more like an inconvenience to the administration, something that is there for them to go around.
Doc, many of us could say a lot, but it's all been said before. And we're stuck with this Communist Muslim sympathizer for another two years yet. I am frankly, exasperated with this guy and his lawlessness, and with Congress for not finding ways to circumvent his foolishness. And even though both Houses will be Republican after January, they still won't move against the guy. Cowards that they are.
My concern is: what else is he going to do to usurp the authority of Congress, and to get around the Constitution?
My answer to that: God only knows!
pretty much sums it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by suncat05
Funny thing is those south of the border and all the illegals think it is because obama and his fellow democrats are thinking of helping them, nope, it is all about their votes.
What is there to say other than " tyranny advances"?
3,415 new regulations being rolled out by the Obama regulatory machine, including declaring every privately owned mud puddle in the country as waters of the US. That is a long way from the original definition which defined waters of the US as navigable.
X2Quote:
Originally Posted by suncat05
Emperor Obama 612
America 0
Not much left to discuss other than when we can formally declare liberty dead in America.
it's clear this is grossly unconstitutional, and is the logical conclusion of decades of Presidential expansion and Congressional willingness to hand their job to bureaucrats so they can avoid having to work too hard. The fact that most Americans either don't understand what he has done or don't care pretty much sums it up.
The truth is only about 1/3rd of the nation has ever really cared about liberty, right from the start. Inexorably we're losing the battle to keep liberty as the core of the American value system. It worked as long as government was so constrained there wasn't much of a way to undermine it, but now that any aspect of our lives and property are fair game to regulate, I don't see any way to stop it short of the periodic revolution jefferson wrote about.
Honest question here:
What is so bad about what he did? Presidents issue executive orders all of the time, and Obama has issued less than most Presidents. So how is this one an overreach? I have been insanely busy the last week and have not had much time at all to do research on the real deal with this executive order and am willing to ask on here in a real hope for some sanity in the explanation. I mean is this truly something illegal or overreaching or is this just more of the same of hating on Obama as he does things every other President before him did but for some reason is wrong of him to do?
And yes most of you know I have been an Obama defender, but I am a rational person that responds to rational discussion, and I want to know what the rational is behind what Obama did, and I know full well Obama screws up quite regularly so this could be a screw once again, but I want to know the logic behind the opposition.
go to youtube and you can find Obama himself laying out the case for why this is illegal. He has made that case for 2 years to justify his inaction, and it's a good case.
Clearly all administrations promulgate regulations, but all of those are supposed to be within the bounds of the duly passed law that then says regs are to be passed to enforce/implement the law.
What Obama has done with both Obamacare and this move is to very clearly issue orders that are contrary to the letter of the law. Obamacare was passed with certain specific deadlines and certain fees on certain things, and he has just waived them as if they were regs. They weren't regs, they were the law, and the regs needed to stay within it.
Same thing here. The LAW says those people are here illegally and are to be deported. he has just said "nope" and will do it different. He's creating a permit program that doesn't exist on the books. The law says they are to be deported.
It would be like a GOP president issuing an order for the IRS to not collect capital gains tax. it's on the books, its the law, and he just decides it's best for the country we not have that tax. or if he decided to have a national sales tax without Congressional action.
The permit/work part is glaringly at issue. THere is no law allowing these people here illegally to work or be given permission to work. the law explicitly states that employers who hire them can be fined/prosecuted, yet Obama says unilaterally it's OK.
here's a paper on the subject that does a decent job on that part of it: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=2144031
But the truth is that the volume of executive action/orders isn't really important or relevant. The US has invaded more countries than the Nazis have, does that make us worse than the Nazis? Of course not, it's not volume of such things, it's their significance and impact on the balance of powers and the Constitution. Obama's actions have been increasingly farther outside the bounds of the established and duly enacted laws.
The "typical" Obama bashing is b/c Obama is typically and consistently acting in ways that I think are detrimental to the very fabric of the liberty of the People. I'm not one to exaggerate, I have called out those who called carter or Clinton "socialists", which was clearly not true. But Obama is most definitely a socialist, from the farthest left wing of American politics. He's far more concerned with the end of social justice than he is with observing the means by which we get there, which is adherence to the rule of law and liberty.
Administrations have long used selective enforcement on things, but Obama has gone beyond that to establish entire programs contrary to the law and ignore legal specifics that get in his way.
Here's hoping the GOP wins in 2 years and we get a 4 or 8 year hiatus on capital gains taxes, or maybe we just decide that the Clean Air Act's restrictions on sulfur are so troublesome and just ignore them for a while.
(PS - also look at the actions by Reid and how all of this has dovetailed to try to repress dissension and the basic political process)
Honest response-- its popular to say our immigration system is broke. I disagree. I say the system is not broke. I say its not enforced properly or efficiently. We have laws to keep illegals out and laws to allow immigration on the books. I know sun cats wife immigrated here legally as did my brother in law. My B.I.L did legally and efficiently, pays taxes, owns a business and gives to this nation. He speaks English and sees himself as an American! He came here not by climbing a fence in the middle of the night or hiding in the trunk of a car, he did not take social services like welfare or have parents who worked under the table. And when the time came and he was able to legally become a citizen he stood before the judge and took the oath to this country because he worked within the system and earned that right. There was no decree, nothing was given him and he wasn't shoved to the back of the line because 5,000,000-12,000,000 people cut in front of him illegally. And those 5,000,000-12,000,000 who just did get a "fast pass" really cheapens the hard work and effort that he put in doing it the right way.
Doc is correct, and I agree with him. The immigration system isn't broken at all, but it does need some adjustments to make it work more effectively.
I am the son & grandson of immigrants from Sicily. They immigrated legally, entered this country off of a bananna boat through New Orleans, became Untied States citizens, and went on to become successful business people in Louisville. My wife, son & daughter came here legally fom the Philippines and are now all United States citizens.
What Obama did with his action was to invalidate the actions of every person who has come here legally and followed the rule of law, written by Congress and enacted into life by Presidential signature. He has just told the entire world that it's okay to come here illegally, you can break these pesky immigration laws because according to him they are of no relevance at all. Obama basically spit in the faces of every American with his action in this matter. He has told anyone who is watching that this set of laws don't mater because he won't enforce them. He is telling us that, as American citizens, that we don't matter to him and that these law breaking illegals are more important than we are. And he has told all Americans everywhere that he doesn't give one hot damn about pprotecting us or our country.
I have zero problem with anyone wanting to come here and live here from somewhere else. Zero problem with it. But our laws have to be obeyed, and we as American citizens need to be protected from those who intend us harm.
This president has no interest whatsoever in protecting Americans, and his actions, to me, is basically 1)a declaration of hostility towards all Americans, and 2)a conscious act of willful negligence towards the United States of America, and 3)a willful violation of his Oath of Office for which he should be impeached.
JMHO. And I am not the only American that believes this to be true.
IMO suncat, a Doc, and Citizen all summed it up nicely
Obama has opened the gates for mor lawbreakers to enter this country, laws be damned. One law that needs to be stricken from the books is making any child born in the US a legal citizen.
The executive orders he is issuing really do exceed his authority and it is continuing to chip away at the separation of powers. That should be troubling at any level.
And while I am critical of this president, this trend of reducing our liberty is bipartisan. The Patriot Act, Homeland Security, and other dangers were created under a Republican administration. But the results of this President's actions in terms of domestic and foreign policy are truly dangerous for our democracy.
I believe that UKhistory makes a valid & excellent point about the bipartisanship displayed in the trend of lessening our freedoms.
Why do we need this monolithic organization called Homeland Security? We have a Department of Defense, whose sole purpose is the protection of the U.S. against ALL enemies, foreign & domestic. Why do we need FEMA? Doesn't the responsibility to handle emergencies on a local level fall to each individual State? And if not, why? Why do we need the Environmental Protection Agency? Again, shouldn't the need to protect the environment fall to the individual States?
How in the hell does Congress pass a bill forcing all Americans to buy the healthcare it provides and has the Internal Revenue Service as its enforcement arm? That means the law isn't really about healthcare, but about collecting more taxes from all Americans.
The federal government has become the monster that our Founding Fathers feared it could if not closely controlled.