A little more shot clock talk, from SEC's Craig Pinkerton

Published on 01-11-2013 10:21 AM

2 Comments

We've all heard about the "shot clock violation" missed in last night's Kentucky v Vanderbilt basketball game. Nerlens Noel picked up the ball in the lane, dribbled, and shot with the ball still in his hand when the shot clock turned to 0, but with the ball leaving his hand before the shot-clock buzzer sounded. The shot, which was recorded with 17.3 seconds remaining in the game, extended a UK lead to 60-55, and ultimately provided the deciding margin of victory.

Television announcers, and media throughout the country decried the call as a horrible call, and an "obvious" violation. Some, such as ESPN's Andy Katz, suggest that the call is not a reviewable call is a rule that needs to be changed.

With this confusion reigning, I went to the Southeastern Conference's men's basketball contact, Craig Pinkerton for answers. Pinkerton first addressed whether or not it is reviewable, stating "By rule, it is not reviewable whether or not the shot clock expires before a shot is taken. The only reviewable instance involving the shot clock is if the shot clock should malfunction." This was also confirmed last night by the SEC's supervisor of officials, Gerald Boudreaux, who was in attendance at the game.

There was no malfunction of the shot clock, so no review was appropriate. I then asked him whether the clock--the display itself--had any relevance to whether or not a violation occurred.

Pinkerton simply responded with the NCAA rule itself, as follows:

Art. 2. It is a violation when a try for field goal does not leave the shooter’s hand before the expiration of the allotted shot-clock time (as indicated by the sounding of the shot-clock horn) or when it does leave the shooter’s hand before the expiration of the alotted shot-clock time and the try does not subsequently strike the ring or flange or enter the basket.

(The underlined portion is my underlining, for emphasis.)

No mention of a display. No mention of a shot clock (other than the "shot-clock time.") So even if a review of the play had occurred, it would not have involved looking at the shot clock, since that does not indicate whether or not a violation occurred.

We're going to put this one in the books, and chalk it up to, "the officials knew the rule, but we didn't." That isn't nearly as sexy of a headline as officials blow a call, but it is more accurate.

Thanks to Craig Pinkerton for the discussion.

Categories:
Basketball

28 Comments

CitizenBBN - 01-11-2013, 07:47 PM
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jon, thank you!!!!!

i have questioned their lack of backboard lights repeatedly, figuring it was yet another non-compliance. you gave the answer, that they just didn't get it fixed.

sorry, and I know it was in the end a good call or at least not a bad one, but they practically deserve to lose a game on this given their lack of concern for their facilities and simply running things right esp. combined with their obvious gamesmanship in the placement of the clock.

Darrell KSR - 01-11-2013, 07:56 PM
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I should add...if it isn't obvious...that's my guess and understanding only. The only attribution I have is the NCAA rule, which provides for a gap between the two.

Sent using Forum Runner. All typos excused.

CitizenBBN - 01-11-2013, 07:57 PM
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Darrell thanks for such a great job breaking down this issue. i've learned a lot about shot clocks today.

Carolinawildcats - 01-11-2013, 07:57 PM
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The game should have been about a 25 point spread by that point in the game, so to me, it's all about tomorrow One game at a time!

Peace

Richard (CW)

blueboss - 01-11-2013, 10:25 PM
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On the vandy clock configuration that was located behind the goal which had the clock and Noel in view from the camera angle from the back court. The game clock time was over the shot clock time on the clock board, the game time had tenth of seconds while the shot clock did not, if you watch the game clock after the shot clock hits "0" the ball leaving Noels hand coincides with roughly nine tenths running off the game clock and is in sync with the buzzer sounding. I watched it in slow-mo several times and with stop action as well one frame at a time and then at live speed in order to hear the buzzer, for me like stated in the NFL the call on the court was the shot was good and there was not indisputable evidence to overturn the call.

Above Doc asked about the ability to review calls at the end of a half or at the final buzzer and if it is allowed and it is as was evident in the AZ - CO game where in my opinion the Buffs got screwed because the call on the court was the shot was good and again the evidence was not indisputable evidence to reverse the call. Granted this aint the NFL but if the refs arm't sure either then they need to stick with the original call on the court. But they also have the big red light/red backboard light that coincides with the buzzer.

If Stallings wants to keep this from happening again I suggest he ponies up some dough and joins the rest of the free world and upgrades that dump of a gym...anchors away be damned...

Doc - 01-11-2013, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Darrell KSR

Doc, the clock starts at 35. It goes to 34 as soon as the clock operator clicks the button--that tells the officials it is working. It does not, however, take 1 full second of watching the clock for it to move from 35 to 34 after pressing the button. I haven't run the clock for a 35 second shot clock, but I have operated clocks without tenths of seconds, and that's how they're done. Think of it this way--picture the 35 second clock as having tenths of seconds.

It starts at 35.0.

The instant you start it, it goes to 34.9.

Well, without tenths, it goes to 34. But it's not "just" 34 seconds, it is 34 plus. Same thing for 0 from 1. And no, the horn does not go off when it hits 0. The NCAA rule says that (see below), and if you watch the replay of last night, it is abundantly clear, the clock goes to 0 before the horn. The horn goes off when time expires. But time does not expire when the clock hits 0.

Your analysis also fails to consider that the NCAA rule specifies time between the clock going to 0 and the horn sounding. This is from the NCAA rulebook:

"When the shot clock indicates zeros but the shot-clock horn has not sounded, the shot-clock time has not expired."

http://www.ncaapublications.com/prod...loads/BR13.pdf

Rule 2, Section 11, Article 9. I think it's page 47 in the PDF.

There is no reason for that if they are designed to be simultaneous. There is time between the clock "going to zeros" and the horn sounding. And that time, by rule, is within the 35 seconds allotted to release the shot.

Just so you know it's not just me--Kyle Tucker also provided the same from his story this morning.

From his story:

When the clock fans see first shows zero, it really means “less than one,” as in 0.9, 0.8, 0.7 …
http://blogs.courier-journal.com/ukb...ck-or-does-he/

Ten years ago, game clocks did exactly the same thing. You started it at 20.00. The instant it started, it went to 19.59. But it was more than 19.59.

I'm fine with that explanation however practical experience says they round up, not down. Again, going back to end of half/end of game situations where the official review whether a basket occurred prior to end of half/end of game. They look at the clock and when it reads zero, half over. To me that says they round up, meaning if there is 0.05 secs left the clock says 0.1. If there is 0.01 secs it also reads 0.1. The assumption since the beginning of the thread and your explanation is they round down (ie 34.9 = 34.). I don't know if that is accurate. I do know though that when the clock reads "0", the horn sounds automatically (yes it does--I've run clocks before. It automatically sounds when the clock strikes 0). If the clock reads "0.0" the horn sounds. If the clock reads "0.1" the horn does not sound. At 0.0 it sounds as the clock strikes 0.0, not 0.09 seconds later. Does that 0.9 seconds on a shot clock or 0.09 seconds on a game clock disappear? You can look at the front end, I'm looking at the back end. Clock says zero, it means no time left.

In your above post, the bolded portion, just gives priority of the horn over the clock, not that there is a 0.9 second delay. All that is doing is setting that when in conflict, the sound take first position. Fine. Glad they clarified. Gives evidence last nights call was correct according to that rule since apparently the clock hitting zero and the horn were not simultaneous. I'm not going to argue that but that does not mean that the horn and clock are not supposed to be in sinc. IMO that bolded statement is fail safe so that when they don't sinc, the horn has preference.

As for Tucker and other UK folks, its not relevant. I'm sure Vandy reporters reported it as a shot clock violation. Their interpretation carries no more or less weight. Personally the CJ holds zero wt IMO. They have been incorrect on occasion.