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  • Derek Abney believes Joker deserves a fourth year

    by
    LarryVaught1
    Published on 09-01-2012 04:21 PM
    1 Comment Comments
    Kentucky football coach Joker Phillips has a die-hard supporter in former UK All-American Derek Abney.

    “Joker is doing a great job keeping the current program in tune with former players and he really does bleed blue. It’s a great move by him to keep former athletes and players part of the program,” Abney said.

    Even if Kentucky does not have a winning season for the third straight year under Phillips, Abney believes he should keep his job.

    “I have thought about this some as a former player who played with Joker as my position coach,” Abney said. “I really feel he deserves another year barring some major problems happening.”

    Abney’s reasoning involves what is best for the long-term UK program. His theory is that if a new coach would be hired if UK has a poor year and that new coach uses talent Phillips has recruited to have success, he would likely leave Kentucky for a higher profile job. Abney suggested that’s what could happen at Louisville if coach Charlie Strong has a big year with the Cardinals.

    “But if Joker starts winning, he’s going to stay and you have a better chance to have a dynasty, or a program that stays successful every year,” Abney said. “Barring either serious off the field stuff that Joker really does not allow, I feel unless the season gets really ugly with only one or two wins that he deserves another year. That would be a fourth year, and a defining year, for him.”

    But with season ticket sales down dramatically, do empty seats and lost revenue factor into the equation about keeping a coach?

    “Between football and basketball, they carry the athletics program financially. Fewer season ticket sales are not a good thing. That’s a tough thing to answer,” Abney, an engineering major, said. “If UK has a poor year, I guarantee you ticket sales will go down even more. Do you bite the bullet and keep Joker or say we are moving forward with a new coach? I had not thought that much about that, but I still think he deserves a fourth year.

    “I don’t think you could ever question coach Phillips’ character or integrity. My boss brought up Bobby Petrino, who wins but has some off-field issues. There a camp that says if you win, who cares. The other camp says if you struggle but then eventually win and you have a high character guy you are a lot better off.”
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    Comments 17 Comments
    1. GhettoBird's Avatar
      GhettoBird - 09-01-2012, 12:52 PM
      Larry it sure appears there is a ton of talent in the freshman and sophomore class.
    1. Padukacat's Avatar
      Padukacat - 09-01-2012, 06:18 PM
      Its simple, if the product improves he stays, otherwise he goes.
    1. cattails's Avatar
      cattails - 09-01-2012, 08:19 PM
      Quote Originally Posted by Padukacat View Post
      Its simple, if the product improves he stays, otherwise he goes.
      Sad to say but that is the way it is.
    1. Darrell KSR's Avatar
      Darrell KSR - 09-01-2012, 10:13 PM
      I'm fine with Derek Abney supporting Joker Phillips. But if I supported Joker like he did, I would not say it the way he's saying it here. Just makes it appear you're going to support him no matter what.

      I'd rather him say he's a quality coach, a high character guy who knows football, can recruit, and will get UK in great position and keep them there. Just watch what happens this season.

      If we win 3 games, how can you support keeping Joker? Under Derek's view, does it matter?

      Premature to say it the way he did. JMO.
    1. BudCat_upthecreek's Avatar
      BudCat_upthecreek - 09-01-2012, 10:47 PM
      Quote Originally Posted by Darrell KSR View Post
      I'm fine with Derek Abney supporting Joker Phillips. But if I supported Joker like he did, I would not say it the way he's saying it here. Just makes it appear you're going to support him no matter what.

      I'd rather him say he's a quality coach, a high character guy who knows football, can recruit, and will get UK in great position and keep them there. Just watch what happens this season.

      If we win 3 games, how can you support keeping Joker? Under Derek's view, does it matter?

      Premature to say it the way he did. JMO.
      Darrell I agree with you, on the Bold underlined portion. Derek should just say he thinks Joker should have a 4 years no matter what unless he gets the program in trouble. It doesn't matter what he's done or not done until now and it doesn't matter what he does or doesn't do until then. Keep him 2 more years and then make a decision.

      I could agree IF he had just entered the program when he took over 2 years ago. But he was Recruiting Director for at least 2 years prior to taking over so all these kids are his. There's no excuse for having the sorriest offense in the SEC last year.
    1. TonyRay's Avatar
      TonyRay - 09-01-2012, 11:12 PM
      Quote Originally Posted by BudCat_upthecreek View Post
      Darrell I agree with you, on the Bold underlined portion. Derek should just say he thinks Joker should have a 4 years no matter what unless he gets the program in trouble. It doesn't matter what he's done or not done until now and it doesn't matter what he does or doesn't do until then. Keep him 2 more years and then make a decision.

      I could agree IF he had just entered the program when he took over 2 years ago. But he was Recruiting Director for at least 2 years prior to taking over so all these kids are his. There's no excuse for having the sorriest offense in the SEC last year.
      He was only Recruiting Coordinator in 03 and 04 then became OC and WR coach. Performance is going to determine his fate, 3 wins won't get it done but something like 5 with a lot of competitveness being shown could earn another year. I don't know how things are going to go but I am more optimistic than most and am anxious to give them a chance to prove what they can do.
    1. BudCat_upthecreek's Avatar
      BudCat_upthecreek - 09-01-2012, 11:54 PM
      Quote Originally Posted by TonyRay View Post
      He was only Recruiting Coordinator in 03 and 04 then became OC and WR coach. Performance is going to determine his fate, 3 wins won't get it done but something like 5 with a lot of competitveness being shown could earn another year. I don't know how things are going to go but I am more optimistic than most and am anxious to give them a chance to prove what they can do.
      Tony I don't think we'd argue Joker has been our primary recruiter and has been tied to every kid that's playing in our program right now in one way or another.

      I also agree performance should determine his fate, but I don't think winning 3 or 4 games will do it and to be honest I'm not sure 5 wins will do it even if we're competitive in 2 or 3 others, it might but I don't know the answer to that. As you know from our tail gate conversations. I feel our in game coaching decisions have been a real weakness for the past few years and big part of why we haven't won at least an avg of 1 to 1.5 games more the past few seasons. I give Joker credit for the UT game, IMHO it was probably the best planned and called overall. Again IMHO the reason we won the game was due to the fact he actually stayed with the pre-game plan. Had he done that for the past few years he'd won a lot more games. But to be honest that's been the one thing he hasn't done....stayed with his game-plan, why I have no idea. But let's hoped he learned from it.
    1. CitizenBBN's Avatar
      CitizenBBN - 09-02-2012, 12:12 AM
      I wouldn't think as much of Abney if he wasn't adamant in Joker's defense, that's what he should do. I also don't discount his view b/c of it, but in the end Joker will have to do a lot more than what is expected of this team to keep the position.

      I sure hope he does. I want him to succeed here, I think we'd all love that, but it's way early to talk about deserving a 4th year.
    1. dan_bgblue's Avatar
      dan_bgblue - 09-02-2012, 07:12 PM
      I wonder if he feels the same way today after witnessing one of the worst defensive performances by the Cats in the last 10 years.
    1. CitizenBBN's Avatar
      CitizenBBN - 09-02-2012, 07:20 PM
      Like Eastwood said...

      Deserve's got nothing to do with it.

      (not that he deserves one, b/c he doesn't)
    1. BigBlueBrock's Avatar
      BigBlueBrock - 09-02-2012, 07:21 PM
      He didn't deserve a third year.
    1. Catonahottinroof's Avatar
      Catonahottinroof - 09-02-2012, 07:22 PM
      I won't know Until I watch the TiVo of the game, but from the commentary on the radio and this board, we were yet again unprepared. This time on the defensive side of the ball.
      Its a recurring theme with our current head coach.
    1. dan_bgblue's Avatar
      dan_bgblue - 09-02-2012, 07:48 PM
      Quote Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof View Post
      I won't know Until I watch the TiVo of the game, but from the commentary on the radio and this board, we were yet again unprepared. This time on the defensive side of the ball.
      Its a recurring theme with our current head coach.
      The offensive game plan was not a bad one at all IMO. Without a couple of really costly fumbles, the Cats would have been likely to add some more points on the board. They took what UL was giving and made hay with it.
    1. CitizenBBN's Avatar
      CitizenBBN - 09-02-2012, 07:51 PM
      I'm OK with the dink and dunk offense. That's what suits the roster and it can be effective enough to compete. Smith ran the team well and we moved the ball.

      Even had we lost, had the defense played as well as the offense I wouldn't be completely off the boat, but the defense was SO bad it's hard to imagine it getting good enough for wins unless the offense plays about flawless football.
    1. jazyd's Avatar
      jazyd - 09-02-2012, 10:18 PM
      The problem with the dink offense is everyone now knows that is all Joker can do and they are prepared for it. Let them throw the 1-5 yard pass and try to break it but they don't have to worry about long throws or wr's that can go get it. You can get lots of yards that way, but the DC's in this league will allow you to run yourself to death dinking it down the field but they aren't going to allow points, and neither did UL which isn't close to being a top SEC quality team. Yes the qb can look good with his high % of completions, the offense will move up and down but they will also use up a lot of clock. And with our defense allowing the other team to use lots of clock, not a good combination.
      A dink offense only works for wins if you have a very good defense. When Mullen came to MSU everyone was excited, thought they were going to get a wide open spread offense that would be exciting. Except he didn't have the personnel for that but he recruited studs for his defense, and he has great defensive coach's, and the defense is what won him games and kept them close against the better teams. But this year, his offense is more to what he likes, and he still has a good defense. His 8 DL's guys would all start for UK, including the two 5 star DT's. But then again, Mullen has a better DC than UK does.
      The dink offense fits Joker because Joker can't recruit the players to stretch the field. He really screwed up the Humphrey recruitment a few years ago and Humphrey has a younger brother that from what I was old is one of the top defensive soph players in the country. Had Joker not screwed that recruitment up, he might have gotten the younger brother.


      Quote Originally Posted by CitizenBBN View Post
      I'm OK with the dink and dunk offense. That's what suits the roster and it can be effective enough to compete. Smith ran the team well and we moved the ball.

      Even had we lost, had the defense played as well as the offense I wouldn't be completely off the boat, but the defense was SO bad it's hard to imagine it getting good enough for wins unless the offense plays about flawless football.
    1. CitizenBBN's Avatar
      CitizenBBN - 09-02-2012, 10:33 PM
      Jazy, I think you really need to stop arguing for keeping Joker another year.

      It's far from the perfect offense, but can you say it's not the best starting point for this roster? Granted we should have a different roster, but in the past not only did we not have the roster but we were trying to fit square pegs into round holes. At least this scheme fits our best QB as opposed to trying to put Newton in a "pro style" offense.

      It really depends on if they are willing to go for the deep ball and if they can run well enough that it's not one dimensional. If all we can do is 5 yard slant passes we're doomed, I agree. Still, are we any less doomed than last year? IMO we're less doomed, and that's good.

      None of those positives means Joker should be retained. He shouldn't. We shouldn't be debating whether we can even compete in the SEC. Based on what Brooks did we should be debating on whether we can finish in the middle or the top middle of the SEC.

      Of course with this defense it doesn't matter. No matter what we scheme it's nearly impossible to score enough to make up for this defense in the SEC, as the Mumme/Major combo proved.

      I'm willing to give the offense some time and see what they do with it. The defense is a different matter, and so is Joker overall.
    1. LarryVaught1's Avatar
      LarryVaught1 - 09-03-2012, 08:35 AM
      One game won't sway Derek, but more games like this and nobody will be able to defend Joker

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