Jared Lorenzen on Hal Mumme

[kingcat]

Thanks Larry. Fun read.

Wonder what old Claude Passit is doing these days? And how that lawsuit thing is working out for him?

I would imagine he's somewhere planning a case against Phillip Fulmer and the Vols.

[dan_bgblue]

He does deserve credit for bringing an exciting brand of offense to UK. He should get credit for that. On the flip side, he was the head coach not the offensive coordinator, so the lack of defense he brought to UK puts the team's accomplishments in less than a stellar category.

I can understand the feelings Lorenzen has and can also appreciate the thoughts he has about his former coaches stint at UK. I wonder how he would feel if he had been a left defensive tackle instead of being the hefty lefty?

[kingcat]

Hal knew and signed off on the thing, yet with plausible deniability I'm sure.

[Terry Blue]

I'm all for remembering the good points of the Mumme era and can see why Couch and Jared love Hal. He let them throw the ball 60 times per game. But I don't have amnesia and the passing offense was about the only phase of his program that was good, and even that waned when SEC defenses got used to it. Running offense, special teams, defense, program management all were very weak areas

[Rock Hard Ten]

Love me some Hal Mumme….he had 2 Achilles Heels - needed a defensive coordinator and winking at Claude Bassett - a good defensive coordinator would have influenced him regarding other staff selections….

He got us to a New Year's Day Bowl. When will we see that again?

I guess the Mumme era goes down as a 2 night stand with the most gorgeous young lady out there (for us guys)…..the first night was absolutely glorious…..the 2nd night turned out to have a long hellacious hangover

I have chosen to use the positives of the Mumme era as a standard for us to rise to

[KMSBball]

I've always liked Hal Mumme. He brought excitement to UK football and made us relevant. I know he could care less about defense and was more offensive coordinator than head coach. But Hal would do things that were unexpected. Only bad timing on injuries kept him from winning the Outback and Music City bowl games. No doubt he made mistakes but he made KY relevant with the national media in the college football world and that hasn't happened since he left.

[KSRBEvans]

I remember it all, the good and the bad. The good was very good and the bad put us on probation. Hal and CM basically left the fox (Bassett) in charge of the henhouse (recruiting), and the program suffered dearly for it.

[UKHistory]

I certainly enjoyed some aspects of Mumme's offensive style. His lack of commitment to defense in the toughest conference in America left something to be desired. Couch and Lorenzen should most definitely love their old coach.

But Mumme's tenure really took the shine off of CM Newton's "Mr. Clean" image. That is a problem. Now the media doesn't seem to get too upset for football programs cheating like they do in basketball. I wonder why the culture shrugs that off when it shakes it head so judgmentally for hoops transgressions?

Mumme was good and bad. But likening it to basketball on grass didn't make our SEC brethern take us seriously.

[KSRBEvans]

^The thing about "basketball on grass" is it only looked at the offensive side of the equation. A good basketball team will play solid defense, too. Mumme's "stop them quickly or let them score so we can get the ball back" approach ignored that.

[UKFlounder]

Only by UK standards. IIRC, he never won more than 7 games, never had a winning SEC record, did not win a bowl game, could not beat UT or UF (though both were actually quite good at the time) and for all the talk of his offensive genius, he did not develop a single good NFL player did he?

Maybe I'm forgetting something

. The good was very good it.

[UKFlounder]

I have to admit the more I think about Mumme, the more I remember the bad times and the trouble, the way he treated Dusty Bonner, the way he put UK on probation causing guys to miss a bowl game in 2002 while he went on to work at several other jobs, the way his whole "draw plays up on the ground on the sideline" gimmick made the program look too stupid to have playbooks, etc.

If it was a 2 night stand, he basically got the girl pregnant and skipped town forgetting to make any support payments. A little bit of fun, followed by years of suffering.

(And for a cheater, he really didn't win all that much. At least Fran Curci had some truly great teams & seasons before we fell apart.)

I think I need to avoid this topic

[kingcat]

I have to admit the more I think about Mumme, the more I remember the bad times and the trouble, the way he treated Dusty Bonner, the way he put UK on probation causing guys to miss a bowl game in 2002 while he went on to work at several other jobs, the way his whole "draw plays up on the ground on the sideline" gimmick made the program look too stupid to have playbooks, etc.

If it was a 2 night stand, he basically got the girl pregnant and skipped town forgetting to make any support payments. A little bit of fun, followed by years of suffering.

(And for a cheater, he really didn't win all that much. At least Fran Curci had some truly great teams & seasons before we fell apart.)

I think I need to avoid this topic

You have at least one in agreement.

[truecatsfan]

You have at least one in agreement.

Make that two.

[CitizenBBN]

^The thing about "basketball on grass" is it only looked at the offensive side of the equation. A good basketball team will play solid defense, too. Mumme's "stop them quickly or let them score so we can get the ball back" approach ignored that.

it should more accurately be called "Loyola Marymount on grass", the key point being that they didn't win a lot of postseason accolades with that style.

Mumme was a great offensive coordinator, at least in some areas. The problem was he was hired to be the head coach. Of course the QBs loved him, he recruited a biased roster with more receivers than DBs and used the run as an imaginary friend to set up the pass.

Head coaches have to manage both sides of the ball, they have to manage recruiting, they have to oversee and basically BE managers more than they are coaches. Mumme was a great coach in many ways, but he was not a great HEAD coach. You can be the best salesman on the car lot, doesn't mean you are going to be a great manager of salesmen.

That is where Stoops sets himself so far apart. He runs the program. His job isn't really even to identify talent or coach talent up, it's not even to 100% decide on the Xs and Os. His primary job is to HIRE the other guys who are good at that stuff and manage them and drive them to get results b/c he can't possibly do it all.

that's esp. true in the SEC, big time football. Mumme is Tesla, some brilliant ideas but mixed in with enough completely silly ideas and mismanagement that he died penniless, and Stoops and guys like Saban are more like Edison. They are very smart and know their stuff but they also excel at building and running something bigger than themselves that can get the results and change the world. The analogies are endless, but suffice to say Mumme was simply hired for the wrong job at UK.

fortunately we've fixed it now by hiring a Mumme type guy (in terms of offensive focus) but he's now the OC, and the HC is a guy who can run the whole program.

[ajp40505]

Mumme came to UK with a great OC in Mike Leach and inherited Tim Couch and Craig Yeast. When Leach left for Oklahoma (I think) and Couch and Yeast were gone the wheels came off Mumme's tenure here. In my opinion, Mike Leach is the guy who has excelled using the Air Raid offense, not Mumme and all you have to do is look at their respective careers since leaving UK.

[CitizenBBN]

Mumme came to UK with a great OC in Mike Leach and inherited Tim Couch and Craig Yeast. When Leach left for Oklahoma (I think) and Couch and Yeast were gone the wheels came off Mumme's tenure here. In my opinion, Mike Leach is the guy who has excelled using the Air Raid offense, not Mumme and all you have to do is look at their respective careers since leaving UK.

Really good point.

[Terry Blue]

I remember it this way:Leach was just a figurehead OC, much the way Petrilno's OC is. Mumme is the one who actually called all the plays. Maybe Leach learned his lessons and added to what Mumme taught him. Mumme's downfall, well downfalls are many, and have been well documented. I think the only time I every booed our team was when I was sitting in the upper deck and we unsuccessfully tried to score on first and goals from the two, after trying 4 30 yard fade passes to the corner of the end zone

[ajp40505]

I remember it this way:Leach was just a figurehead OC, much the way Petrilno's OC is. Mumme is the one who actually called all the plays. Maybe Leach learned his lessons and added to what Mumme taught him. Mumme's downfall, well downfalls are many, and have been well documented. I think the only time I every booed our team was when I was sitting in the upper deck and we unsuccessfully tried to score on first and goals from the two, after trying 4 30 yard fade passes to the corner of the end zone

You assume that Mike Leach was a figurehead OC. 90% of the work of a OC or DC is done in practice, film study, and game planning. It's just as likely that Mumme was a figurehead head coach.

Granted Leach is an odd ball, but he's also a law school graduate and extremely bright and he has had great success as a D-1 coach. Mumme appeared to me to be an undisciplined over-grown kid and anyone who doesn't think he knew everything Basset was doing has their head in the sand. Put their respective resumes side by side and Leach is clearly the better head coach at the D-1 level.

[Terry Blue]

I agree with your assessment on Mumme's personality but Mumme was running the Air Raid offense long before he came to UK at lower division schools. Leach was a student under Mumme, not the other way around

[kingcat]

Off the top of my head I remember going for it on fourth down in the second quarter when we had the lead on...UF I believe it was. 4th and 4 or the like.
Florida scores and eventually we celebrate scoring thirty plus on the Gators...they scored 70 plus by the way. Anyway the people I watched the game with that day, had a good laugh on Mumme and the Cat team.
Tim Couch and Craig Yeast (among a handful of others) were super college players who took Mumme to division one head coach status and made it fly, yet solely by their actions, not his imo.

In the eyes of most football people, we were a novelty and just a flash in the pan joke of the football world.

Even Joker was a better coach, despite his biggest win coming with a wide receiver playing QB.

Still, Mumme couldnt have pulled something like that off now could he?