Wooden On Sam Gilbert Providing Illegal Benefits To UCLA Players: "He Meant Well"

[Darryl]

saw this article from 2010 and looked closer...the author is a North Carolina guy. Pot meet kettle....

http://www.slamonline.com/online/college-hs/college/2010/06/a-contrarian-view-on-john-wooden/

Darryl

[TRUCKERCATFAN]

I've always thought Wooden's supposed "class" and "gracefulness" was the biggest farce in college basketball history. Sleaziest program of all time.

[kingcat]

He was a kind and gracious cheater was he not? I refuse to see the problem here

[KeithKSR]

I've always thought Wooden's supposed "class" and "gracefulness" was the biggest farce in college basketball history. Sleaziest program of all time.

Duke under K is not far behind UCLA. If a booster hired UK parents for unopened positions at above normal rates the NCAA would be on us in an instant. Corey Maggette was the only Myron Piggie player known to receive extra benefits not to be suspended. Duke knew he received extra benefits and should have been forced to forfeit every game Maggette played in at Duke. Their was a huge exposé on the cars Duke players drive, cars far more expensive than the means of parents, nothing was done. Contrast this to Jerry Tipton making a big deal over DA being purchased a Ford Explorer by his guardian uncle, and Jeff Sheppard driving an aged S10 truck. Tay Prince spent a large chunk, if not all his time t UK, without a car.

At Duke practice time brings a flood of high end SUVs and other expensive rides to the parking lot.

[KeithKSR]

BTW, it is no coincidence the NCAA waited until five years after Wooden retired before investigating UCLA and placing them on probation, leading to them vacating a 1980 Final Four appearance.

[Genuine Realist]

Yes and no. Wooden won the first two titles without any help from Gilbert, who wasn't a fan.

He got Alcindor (sic) because of Jackie Robinson, and also because St. John's forced Joe Lapchik, for whom Alcindor really wanted to play, into mandatory retirement. And that is three more, right there.

By that time, the Gilbert sleaze was in full throttle, so the critics have a point. But Walton came because of Alcindor, and those teams would have been at least competitive.

It was a different world 50 years ago. No comparison to these days, and the nod is all to the modern - in terms of academic integrity and eliminating boosters, the NCAA and the President's Council has done a whale of a job. (Now if they just ditch amateurism, the system will be yea close to ideal). Wooden with his zone press and motion offense, was a great, great coach, as was Rupp, in a different way.

But it was a game with a lot of sleaze back then. I am old enough to remember Watergate, circa 1973. The big joke among sportswriters back then is that when they got to the bottom of it, they'd find a basketball coach. No exceptions.

[dan_bgblue]

"He Meant Well"

I think those were the words Judge Roy Bean uttered just before he dropped the lever on the Pecos Kid

[CitizenBBN]

If someone is held out as a pinnacle of humility, success and morality, and that person is not Mother Theresa, people are ignoring reality. No one is perfect, and those who amass success are most certainly not. It doesn't make them any worse than anyone else, but it doesn't make them any better either. In coaching, I think it's even more true.

The media wants heroes and villains. Sports media, news media, doesn't matter, everyone wants to paint in black and white. John Wooden was a hero, despite the obvious outrageous levels of cheating that got him those rosters. Dean Smith was a hero despite him doing nothing particularly notable in the way of race relations or anything else, yet Rupp, whose record is comparable in many ways on such things (and IMO arguably better), is vilified.

Joe Paterno was slobbered over like he'd ended human disease, but he was willfully protecting a pedophile for years.

Men are still just men, with their failings and achievements, no man is 100% of just one. Wooden labored for years at UCLA from 1948 to 1963 in that time getting 3 NCAA Regional 4th place showings and 1 3rd place showing. Winning a weak PAC pretty regularly but not dominating nationally. Then Gilbert shows up in the mid 60s and suddenly Wooden can't lose, of course b/c he now had by far the deepest talent in the country every year.

Wooden was a very good coach before Gilbert, but being a good coach and assembling the best and most experienced college talent the game has seen made him nearly unbeatable. The "very good" part was Wooden. The step to "unbeatable" and the even more the length of the "unbeatable" was provided by Sam Gilbert. Not black and white. Not that Wooden was a bad coach, or an unreal great coach, but the "gray" he was a very good coach with Gilbert in the gray between winning the PAC and having a good run with a couple of titles (like Donovan and Florida) and winning the national title 10 times and becoming the stuff of legend.

[kingcat]

I still don't see the problem UCLA's players got paid because they came and not to entice them there. There's a huge difference isn't there?

You guys could have waited to take care of Mr. Mills, but nooooo! Our guys just let them know the cash and anything else they might want was waiting for them. Hail to the King!! :sign0157:


The 1000.00 Emory mishap only amplifies that joke of a college program. And I don't mean UK.

Great actors however

[kritikalcat]

I think there is some truth to the statement that Gilbert's largesse was directed more at current players than at inducing recruits. Not that this makes it right, and of course when word gets around that you'll be taken care once you enroll it's still an inducement. Wooden didn't have clean hands; but it is true that he built his first couple of championship teams without Gilbert's involvement.

A few things to add - 1. The NCAA looked the other way because UCLA gave them the growing So Cal media market (remember in the 1960's the NCAA had a tight control over all TV rights) 2. We can debate the extent of Gilbert's influence, but location and integration played a huge role in UCLA's rise and dominance in the 60's.

[kritikalcat]

And Kingcat - I'm pretty certain that some dirty stuff was going on under Sutton, but I think the Emery envelope was probably a frame up. I'm glad that Duane C. landed on his feet with a long career as an NBA coach.

[kybobcat]

I'm sure the guys that gave Ralph Beard and the other UK players money "meant well".

Didn't keep the NCAA from dropping the hammer on Adolph, though. :mad0176:

[kritikalcat]

I'm sure the guys that gave Ralph Beard and the other UK players money "meant well".

Didn't keep the NCAA from dropping the hammer on Adolph, though. :mad0176:

The story with UK's involvement with the NCAA in the early 50's is pretty interesting. Until that time the NCAA had limited enforcement powers. Sanctions required a 2/3 vote of the full membership. In 1951 Walter Byers was hired as executive director and started the process of creating the infractions committee which ushered in the modern era of "major" and "minor" violations.

He had no actual legislative authority from the membership, but just did it. UK was the first or one of the first cases, and with no precedent for allowing a committee to impose sanctions rather than a full membership vote, Byers went to UK President AD Kirwin and got Kirwin to agree to accept penalties without contesting them or demanding a full vote of the NCAA member schools; thus establishing the NCAA's power as an enforcement body. (I believe Kirwin possibly wanted to hamstring Rupp who had grown too powerful in the eyes of the administration.)

Byers was also behind the NCAA control of media rights which lasted for several decades until broken by top college football programs. Again, schools handed him that power. When TV started to become popular it scared most AD's to death, as they felt that it could only hurt by siphoning off fans who would otherwise buy tickets. Few ADs saw the potential for making money from media rights, so almost every school agreed to give the NCAA/Byers exclusive control of TV rights and scheduling. Only 6 schools (Notre Dame probably the best known) held out, but Byers strong armed them into line by ordering other schools not to schedule them.

Byers was also a key player in expanding the NCAA tournament, and directly behind the first expansion from 8 to 16 teams in 1951. He retired from the NCAA in 1988, and still lives on his farm in Kansas, age 91.

[Darrell KSR]

Great history, kritikalcat.