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View Full Version : I always wondered where some of these came from...



badrose
05-07-2013, 05:41 PM
Copied from FB.


They used to use urine to tan animal skins, so families used to all pee in a pot & then once a day it was taken & Sold to the tannery.......if you had to do this to survive you were "Piss Poor"

But worse than that were the really poor folk who couldn't even afford to buy a pot......they "didn't have a pot to piss in" & were the lowest of the low

The next time you are washing your hands and complain because the water temperature isn't just how you like it, think about how things used to be. Here are some facts about the 1500s:

Most people got married in June because they took their yearly bath in May, and they still smelled pretty good by June.. However, since they were starting to smell . ...... . Brides carried a bouquet of flowers to hide the body odor. Hence the custom today of carrying a bouquet when getting Married.

Baths consisted of a big tub filled with hot water. The man of the house had the privilege of the nice clean water, then all the other sons and men, then the women and finally the children. Last of all the babies. By then the water was so dirty you could actually lose someone in it.. Hence the saying, "Don't throw the baby out with the Bath water!"

Houses had thatched roofs-thick straw-piled high, with no wood underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so all the cats and other small animals (mice, bugs) lived in the roof. When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals would slip and fall off the roof... Hence the saying "It's raining cats and dogs."

There was nothing to stop things from falling into the house. This posed a real problem in the bedroom where bugs and other droppings could mess up your nice clean bed. Hence, a bed with big posts and a sheet hung over the top afforded some protection. That's how canopy beds came into existence.

The floor was dirt. Only the wealthy had something other than dirt. Hence the saying, "Dirt poor." The wealthy had slate floors that would get slippery in the winter when wet, so they spread thresh (straw) on floor to help keep their footing. As the winter wore on, they added more thresh until, when you opened the door, it would all start slipping outside. A piece of wood was placed in the entrance-way. Hence: a thresh hold.

In those old days, they cooked in the kitchen with a big kettle that always hung over the fire.. Every day they lit the fire and added things to the pot. They ate mostly vegetables and did not get much meat. They would eat the stew for dinner, leaving leftovers in the pot to get cold overnight and then start over the next day. Sometimes stew had food in it that had been there for quite a while. Hence the rhyme: Peas porridge hot, peas porridge cold, peas porridge in the pot nine days old. Sometimes they could obtain pork, which made them feel quite special. When visitors came over, they would hang up their bacon to show off. It was a sign of wealth that a man could, "bring home the bacon." They would cut off a little to share with guests and would all sit around and chew the fat.

Those with money had plates made of pewter. Food with high acid content caused some of the lead to leach onto the food, causing lead poisoning death. This happened most often with tomatoes, so for the next 400 years or so, tomatoes were considered poisonous.

Bread was divided according to status. Workers got the burnt bottom of the loaf, the family got the middle, and guests got the top, or the upper crust.

Lead cups were used to drink ale or whisky. The combination would Sometimes knock the imbibers out for a couple of days. Someone walking along the road would take them for dead and prepare them for burial.. They were laid out on the kitchen table for a couple of days and the family would gather around and eat and drink and wait and see if they would wake up. Hence the custom of holding a wake.

England is old and small and the local folks started running out of places to bury people. So they would dig up coffins and would take the bones to a bone-house, and reuse the grave. When reopening these coffins, 1 out of 25 coffins were found to have scratch marks on the inside and they realized they had been burying people alive... So they would tie a string on the wrist of the corpse, lead it through the coffin and up through the ground and tie it to a bell. Someone would have to sit out in the graveyard all night (the graveyard shift.) to listen for the bell; thus, someone could be, saved by the bell or was considered a dead ringer.

And that's the truth....Now, whoever said History was boring
tyvm, Gear fan club

CitizenBBN
05-07-2013, 06:58 PM
Interesting, but I know at least 2 of those are apocryphal, noting that we really don't know the origins of most phrases but have only educated guesses so "wrong" is a strong word to use in etymology. The two with which I'm familiar is "cats and dogs" and the burial ritual with a string and bell, specifically the 1 in 25 number.

I've seen the thatched roof version of "cats and dogs" before, but it's largely dismissed. the first use of it that probably led to its popularity was by Johnathan Swift in the 1700s, and while there are 3-4 theories of it I'm fond of two. the first is that it's a linguistic twisting of "catadupe", and Old English word descended from Latin that means a waterfall or cataract. IMO it became "cats and dogs" as an expression much like English Cockney rhyme phrases like "apples and pears" which means "stairs". the second is that strong rains would in fact wash dead animals out into the streets and such and the term became a phrase describing that unseemly result of a real downpour.

The "buried alive" thing from what I've read wasn't nearly as common as we make it out to be. Some people who were quite paranoid most certainly did run strings through to their coffins and have bells they could ring, but it wasn't really common for anyone to be buried alive. One version of it was that people who had seizures would be buried that way, but as you point out the nature of a wake and just the sheer time to bury someone meant they were still unburied for at least a day, plenty of time for them to come out of a seizure or such. Medicine was primitive but they could tell if someone was breathing with good reliability.

Glad you posted this. I love etymology and discussion of the various theories.

blueboss
05-07-2013, 08:18 PM
I had heard they used manure for ballast on the ships coming from England and then for fertilizer once they arrived. When sea water mixed with the manure it would make methane gas and since they used lantern/candles for light they had a high incidence of explosions on the ships. They then realized that they had to store the manure up off of the floor of the ships in the bilge to keep the manure from getting soaked in seawater to eliminate the methane gas and so the manure was marked "Stow High In Transit".

CitizenBBN
05-07-2013, 08:50 PM
I had heard they used manure for ballast on the ships coming from England and then for fertilizer once they arrived. When sea water mixed with the manure it would make methane gas and since they used lantern/candles for light they had a high incidence of explosions on the ships. They then realized that they had to store the manure up off of the floor of the ships in the bilge to keep the manure from getting soaked in seawater to eliminate the methane gas and so the manure was marked "Stow High In Transit".

That one gets an A for inventiveness IMO, but is also untrue. That one is in fact "wrong" in that we can trace the use of the word in written works predating such voyages by centuries. "S***" is a derivation from the German "schite", and has been in the English language since Old English.

I only know this one b/c of a raging debate/bar bet held by a less than sober group of us over the origin of the word "crap". the story has been long told that it was derived from a man named Crapper, who was a plumber and maker of toilets in England in Victorian times, sometimes wrongly credited with the actual invention though he did make advancements. A great story but upon research (this was pre-internet, had to hit the library) we found "crap" had been used in writing decades before Crapper was born. It too was an Old English term, but, and here's where the bet got interesting, the AMERICAN use of crap only dates to WWI. The theory there goes that the word wasn't used in America (at least not with any commonness we see now) until we sent soldiers to England who saw a lot of "Thomas Crapper" toilets, as he was a major producer.

We called it a draw b/c while the word "crap" itself in English clearly predates Crapper and refers to something "beneath the feet" or worthless in some way, "crap" as used in the US may very well have come in to use at least in part due to Crapper's toilets.

As part of the research we found out about "s***" as well, which goes back to old Germanic tongues that then bled to Old English and then to modern English. It's a VERY old curse word, whereas "crap" in the US at least didn't come into any wide use till the 1920s.

FWIW two of my very favorite words, which are really acronyms, are snafu and fubar. Both derived during WWII in the military, they are brilliant in their derivation IMO. "Snafu" has literally become a word, accepted in the dictionary. It even had the famous Sgt. Snafu comics. "Fubar" shows as a misspelling on my browser so I surmise it's not an official word yet, but it might as well be. They're utterly brilliant IMO. The ultimate droll, classic military statement.

Darrell KSR
05-07-2013, 08:52 PM
Don't really care whether there are flaws or not, those are dang good stories, and I enjoyed reading then.

Sent using Forum Runner.

CitizenBBN
05-07-2013, 08:56 PM
Don't really care whether there are flaws or not, those are dang good stories, and I enjoyed reading then.

Sent using Forum Runner.

My experience in etymology is that the more intriguing tales are often false, but they are by far some of the most inventive stories around and very enjoyable and stimulating of great discussion. Like "Stow High In Transit", how creative was the guy who came up with that interpretation? That's just brilliant, as is IMO the cats and dogs living in the roof system.

I want to research the tomato one. That seems pretty reasonable on its face.

blueboss
05-08-2013, 08:30 AM
We can derive from this that CBBN really knows alot about S-tow H-igh I-n T-ransit :winking0011:

CitizenBBN
05-08-2013, 09:46 AM
We can derive from this that CBBN really knows alot about S-tow H-igh I-n T-ransit :winking0011:

Now if I could just tell it from Shinola. :) Which funny enough is another good etymology phrase that originated in WWII. Shinola was a brand of shoe polish, but many people think it's a reference to money, including myself. I thought it was a reference to money when I saw The Jerk, but he didn't pull out money to show Nathan which led me to look for its meaning.

I think we've covered about all of my etymology knowledge, unless you want to count the derivation of words used in Star Trek. :)

Catmandrew
05-09-2013, 02:57 PM
Loved all that, true or not. Cit, you know anything about the piss tanning? I know most used tree bark. White oak bark gives you a nice brown-yellow hue. And what about "thresh"? I always thought the straw/vine material was called rushes.

Thanks for posting Badrose!

CitizenBBN
05-10-2013, 05:05 PM
Loved all that, true or not. Cit, you know anything about the piss tanning? I know most used tree bark. White oak bark gives you a nice brown-yellow hue. And what about "thresh"? I always thought the straw/vine material was called rushes.

Thanks for posting Badrose!

My guess was it too was apocryphal, and based on some limited googling it seems to be at least in part. I am familiar enough with "chamber pots", which date back many centuries if not millennia. I know they weren't limited to the upper classes from Victorian periods on. There were different qualities of them, but they were hardly for rich people alone. You just didn't have as nice a one like a porcelain or English bone china. Chamber pots were used past WWII fairly commonly in some parts of the country and are still in use where you don't have indoor plumbing. I'm unaware of anyone really being so poor they didn't have one, that would be poor indeed to not have a bucket. Even people of modest means in this area had porcelain chamber pots as well as porcelain washing pitchers and bowls.

Re the tanning part I couldn't find any reference to it with regards to the phrase but I did find a reference to "piss pots" being left in the public in ancient times to collect urine for the tanning process. Apparently it was used to help remove the hairs from the hide. Snopes, which I don't trust a whole lot either, says the phrase dates to 1905, far past such processing I'm betting, so I imagine the phrase itself didn't originate with urine for tanning but we know there have been "piss pots" (also chamber pots) for centuries, and at some point urine was gathered in some way for tanneries.