FBI knew the older Tsarnaev was possibly connected to Chechen terrorist

[Catonahottinroof]

Another epic fail by the administration. A foreign government notified the FBI there was an issue with Tamerlan Tsarnaev....geez..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2013/04/19/f53e1cf2-a911-11e2-b8ad-87b8baf4531b_story.html

"Also Friday, the FBI confirmed that its agents in Boston had interviewed Tamerlan Tsarnaev in 2011 at the request of a foreign government. A law enforcement official said the request came from the Russian government, concerned about Tsarnaev’s potential ties to Chechen terrorists. But, after that interview, the FBI did not follow him further, officials said."

[suncat05]

I can understand that probably the FBI did not see this guy as a serious threat. A 'possible' threat, yes, but a real, active, probable threat, no.
At this point, and until the captured brother talks, we won't know if they were working alone or with another terrorist group. The thing that bothers me is the possibility that this is not the only instance of a person doing this, which means that we do need to start paying closer attention to people like this. What concerns me is the fact that the Russians turned us on to this guy. If the Russians were wary of him, that should have been a massively huge red flag to the U.S. government.
I hate it that this happened. I hate it for all of the victims of these two morons. I am glad that at least one of them was captured alive and will face justice, although I believe Gitmo and a military tribunal is the right way to proceed with justice here, and that will not happen under this administration. But in the end we have to face this fact: if we want to be able to enjoy the freedoms that we have now, we cannot allow those same freedoms to be taken away in the name of "safety". It is our responsibility to protect ourselves, by being vigilant and exercising proper caution. This is the world we now live in, so it is up to each and every one of us as individuals to be wary of people/things that don't seem right and to contact the police and let them do their jobs. We ALL have a part in this, and if everyone will do what they're supposed to do and then let the authorities do their jobs, then we all keep our freedoms and we lose nothing, which means we all win and get to keep living the way we do.

[Darrell KSR]

I can understand that probably the FBI did not see this guy as a serious threat. A 'possible' threat, yes, but a real, active, probable threat, no.
At this point, and until the captured brother talks, we won't know if they were working alone or with another terrorist group. The thing that bothers me is the possibility that this is not the only instance of a person doing this, which means that we do need to start paying closer attention to people like this. What concerns me is the fact that the Russians turned us on to this guy. If the Russians were wary of him, that should have been a massively huge red flag to the U.S. government.
I hate it that this happened. I hate it for all of the victims of these two morons. I am glad that at least one of them was captured alive and will face justice, although I believe Gitmo and a military tribunal is the right way to proceed with justice here, and that will not happen under this administration. But in the end we have to face this fact: if we want to be able to enjoy the freedoms that we have now, we cannot allow those same freedoms to be taken away in the name of "safety". It is our responsibility to protect ourselves, by being vigilant and exercising proper caution. This is the world we now live in, so it is up to each and every one of us as individuals to be wary of people/things that don't seem right and to contact the police and let them do their jobs. We ALL have a part in this, and if everyone will do what they're supposed to do and then let the authorities do their jobs, then we all keep our freedoms and we lose nothing, which means we all win and get to keep living the way we do.

Very well stated, Suncat.

Sent using Forum Runner. All typos excused.

[Doc]

I agree. In sure the FBI gets thousands of alerts and it would be impossible to fully address every one. I'm waiting though for the "if the GOP hasn't cut funding, we would have prevented this"

[jazyd]

You know I agree with except the part about letting authorities do their jobs. What happens when they don't which is possible in this case. As you said it should have been a huge red flag when the Russians turned attention to this guy to us, they should have kept a vigil on him especially since he went back to Russia for 6 months last year


QUOTE=suncat05;81167]I can understand that probably the FBI did not see this guy as a serious threat. A 'possible' threat, yes, but a real, active, probable threat, no.
At this point, and until the captured brother talks, we won't know if they were working alone or with another terrorist group. The thing that bothers me is the possibility that this is not the only instance of a person doing this, which means that we do need to start paying closer attention to people like this. What concerns me is the fact that the Russians turned us on to this guy. If the Russians were wary of him, that should have been a massively huge red flag to the U.S. government.
I hate it that this happened. I hate it for all of the victims of these two morons. I am glad that at least one of them was captured alive and will face justice, although I believe Gitmo and a military tribunal is the right way to proceed with justice here, and that will not happen under this administration. But in the end we have to face this fact: if we want to be able to enjoy the freedoms that we have now, we cannot allow those same freedoms to be taken away in the name of "safety". It is our responsibility to protect ourselves, by being vigilant and exercising proper caution. This is the world we now live in, so it is up to each and every one of us as individuals to be wary of people/things that don't seem right and to contact the police and let them do their jobs. We ALL have a part in this, and if everyone will do what they're supposed to do and then let the authorities do their jobs, then we all keep our freedoms and we lose nothing, which means we all win and get to keep living the way we do.[/QUOTE]

[Catonahottinroof]

I'm with you Suncat. I don't want to jeopardize any of my freedoms. I do see a disconnect in this situation however. The Ruskies knew he was in their country, and knew his activities. If we don't heed their warning, shame on us. I just wonder how many times this occurring?
Tamerlan's YouTube account (has since been deleted by YouTube yesterday) was chock full of Islamic radicalism/terrorism videos, out in the open for all to see. Someone did not connect the dots here. Russian Social network VKontact was full of much of the same type of behavior from him as well.
If the media can uncover this stuff after the fact, there's no excuse for the FBI to have not to have had a clue about him.

The bigger concern for me now is how the surviving bomber and how the prosecution of him will proceed. He is an American citizen now, but , Miranda rights are being delayed with him due to possible still existing public threat.
Could he be deemed an "enemy combatant"?

[suncat05]

IMHO, yes, even though he is now legally an American citizen, I believe the best way to prosecute him would be to classify him as an enemy combatant, send him to Gitmo, and try him under a military tribunal.
But that is not gonna happen with Obama calling the shots right now. And if you watched and listened to the post event press conference last night the federal prosecutor in Boston stated that she was going to be very busy with this case, so there was the indication of how they're going to prosecute this case. I don't agree, I think they're wrong if they follow that course of action as that will open up that can of worms that we do not want to happen, but at this point that's the way it looks to me.
We absolutely CANNOT give these terrorists the same legal protections as a regular criminal receives. But that's JMHO, yours may differ. These two guys exploded a bomb in a busy public venue/event in the name of Islam/jihad. It is a crime, but more importantly it is an act of war using a crime as cover. This guy needs to go to Gitmo and be tried by a military tribunal. Again, JMHO.

[bigsky]

He gets a civilian trial, after interrogation. Prosecutor won't need anything he says pre Miranda.

[Darrell KSR]

IMHO, yes, even though he is now legally an American citizen, I believe the best way to prosecute him would be to classify him as an enemy combatant, send him to Gitmo, and try him under a military tribunal.
But that is not gonna happen with Obama calling the shots right now. And if you watched and listened to the post event press conference last night the federal prosecutor in Boston stated that she was going to be very busy with this case, so there was the indication of how they're going to prosecute this case. I don't agree, I think they're wrong if they follow that course of action as that will open up that can of worms that we do not want to happen, but at this point that's the way it looks to me.
We absolutely CANNOT give these terrorists the same legal protections as a regular criminal receives. But that's JMHO, yours may differ. These two guys exploded a bomb in a busy public venue/event in the name of Islam/jihad. It is a crime, but more importantly it is an act of war using a crime as cover. This guy needs to go to Gitmo and be tried by a military tribunal. Again, JMHO.

I am not now agreeing or disagreeing. As many things are, it's in a gray zone for me. I have read things that made me believe they were not in any way acting as an arm of a terrorist group. It would have been the first ever act outside Russia for that to occur. I don't think we can, or should, attach an act of war to independent zealots and diminish the meaning.

But that is all predicated on the belief, which could easily be wrong, that it was not group related, funded, etc. If that's wrong, then you have to follow military rules. Protocol requires that.

Justice will be done here.

Sent using Forum Runner. All typos excused.

[CitizenBBN]

I'm with you Suncat. I don't want to jeopardize any of my freedoms. I do see a disconnect in this situation however. The Ruskies knew he was in their country, and knew his activities. If we don't heed their warning, shame on us. I just wonder how many times this occurring?
Tamerlan's YouTube account (has since been deleted by YouTube yesterday) was chock full of Islamic radicalism/terrorism videos, out in the open for all to see. Someone did not connect the dots here. Russian Social network VKontact was full of much of the same type of behavior from him as well.
If the media can uncover this stuff after the fact, there's no excuse for the FBI to have not to have had a clue about him.


This. This is an imperfect process, where someone who proves to be a threat may not have given that appearance, or not enough to have him arrested, etc. It will happen. However I do find it powerful that this person was specifically brought to our attention by the Russians. Clearly he was strongly supportive of the Islamist terrororist groups, you can get that just from his online activities that were not hidden at all, and with the Russians worried b/c of his activities I think you have to do more than a single vetting.

There's no way to know if they did anything wrong though or not unless we know a lot more details about his activities to that point, what the Russians communicated about him, etc. It's possible they made the right call given his activities at that point in time, but maybe not. The question needs to be asked and investigated vigorously and publicly as much as possible to insure we don't repeat any mistakes with the next person of interest.

[UKHistory]

How many individuals do other countries, including the Russia, bring to the attention of this government? And who did the Russians tell this to that represents our government?

I don't have the answers to say. Our people are literally looking at haystack to find needles. I am pretty impressed that these two were identified and captured within a week. The amount of video that had to be reviewed is unreal.

I actually won't be too critical of our government yet on this aspect.

[Catonahottinroof]

The Russians have this situation within their borders in Chechnya, Dagestan and Azerbaijan. If they deemed him a problem, we should have listened. Russians have a non PC way of dealing with these kinds of people. Not heeding their warnings on this guy is a problem.

It's the kind of thing that leads conspiracy theorists to propagate that the Feds let it happen.

[CitizenBBN]

How many individuals do other countries, including the Russia, bring to the attention of this government? And who did the Russians tell this to that represents our government?

I don't have the answers to say. Our people are literally looking at haystack to find needles. I am pretty impressed that these two were identified and captured within a week. The amount of video that had to be reviewed is unreal.

I actually won't be too critical of our government yet on this aspect.

I agree, and don't want to hang anyone yet, but the Russians having brought him to our attention and the fact that he was pretty blatant about his views makes me want a disclosure of what we knew and did. I won't assume we blew it, but it looks questionable enough there should be an investigation/review and disclosure.

Honestly I'd feel better had this been some unknown guy who didn't have any internet trail of sympathizing with Islamists and was not known by the government. No doubt there are plenty of people out there who are potential threats who we can't identify. we need to not miss on the ones who we can identify.

[dan_bgblue]

Hope this request has more success than the request for info on fast and furious (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/21/house-committee-wants-answers-about-bombing-suspect/)

[CitizenBBN]

Not holding my breath Dan. I find the lack of public review of any of these failures as disturbing as their existence, i.e. Fast and Furious and Benghazi.

[Darrell KSR]

Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be treated as an Enemy Combatant or a Criminal? @nancycordes on the debate in Washington ahead on @CBSThisMorning

[bigsky]

Civilian but its getting closer. I think he Gets the needle in Fed courts. I don't want him a POW.

Left wing meme now is "just two misunderstood children shooting up the high school". Watch for it.

I think we are obviously at war with Islamic jihadists though.

[CitizenBBN]

I think we are obviously at war with Islamic jihadists though.

They seem to most definitely be at war with us. We can either accept it or ignore it.

[dan_bgblue]

They seem to most definitely be at war with us. We can either accept it or ignore it.

I accepted it in 1983.

[CitizenBBN]

I accepted it in 1983.

An early adopter. :) Did you get one of those huge cell phones too? ;)

The Islamist movement is a fascist movement, and when seen in that light it's easy to see how we have the same choices we had when we faced European and Japanese fascism: we can become isolationist and hope it doesn't reach us or we can go after it with the full might of our nation. I'd prefer either of those choices to the pitiful half efforts of Somalia and Benghazi.

[suncat05]

I accepted it in 1983.

Reference Beirut?

[dan_bgblue]

Kelly said the plot was revealed in a bedside interrogation of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev in Boston's Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, where he remains in fair condition. The 19-year-old suspect spoke to FBI agents intermittently over a 16-hour period before a federal judge showed up at the hospital and read him his Miranda rights, after which he clammed up, according to law enforcement sources.


Times Square (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/25/boston-marathon-bombing-suspects-planned-bombs-in-new-york-times-square/)

[dan_bgblue]

Reference Beirut?

Yes sir

[CitizenBBN]

Kelly said the plot was revealed in a bedside interrogation of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev in Boston's Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, where he remains in fair condition. The 19-year-old suspect spoke to FBI agents intermittently over a 16-hour period before a federal judge showed up at the hospital and read him his Miranda rights, after which he clammed up, according to law enforcement sources.


Times Square (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/25/boston-marathon-bombing-suspects-planned-bombs-in-new-york-times-square/)

Thus the benefits of him not being held as a citizen committing a crime, but as a traitor committing an act of war.

[Catonahottinroof]

He was mirandized to keep from spilling the beans on the Fed's incompetency.

[bigsky]

He was mirandized to keep from spilling the beans on the Fed's incompetency.

That should be the topic of another thread about an Elvis impersonator.