Another episode of the ATF version of the Keystone Cops

[KeithKSR]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/31/lawmakers-call-for-probe-into-botched-atf-sting-in-milwaukee/

You can't make stuff like this up. One agent had a machine gun stolen from an agent's car. SMH, these guys need to get out of the undercover ops business.

[Doc]

Seriously, I couldn't even finish reading the article because its so infuriating how inept these people can be.

edited to change "could" to "couldn't". Doing so changed the meaning a bit!

[KeithKSR]

Seriously, I could even finish reading the article because its so infuriating how inept these people can be.

They arm criminals, arm drug dealers, and leave machine guns in their cars vulnerable to theft. On the inept scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the most inept they are off the scale with a fifteen.

[CitizenBBN]

First, why did he have a machine gun? NFA weapons are highly restricted. If someone sold an illegal one to them he should have been taken into custody immediately, but my bet is this is one ATF had in its possession and he left it in the car.

If so, why was he in possession of one? There are very few of them in the US relatively speaking, and this clearly was a "real" one and not some garage conversion of a semi auto gun. A gun like that is a $10,000+ gun. Either it was stolen or he got it from ATF's holdings and left it sitting around.

Keystone cops is right, but the problem is they aren't cops. ATF was created as a tax agency to collect the stamp taxes on tobacco and alcohol and then the fees specified in the National Firearms Act. They operated under Treasury forever and are not trained law enforcement per se. The vast majority of their staff are engaged in day to day management of the rules and auditing dealers.

Even though they have some law enforcement staff the agency doesn't have a law enforcement mission or culture. They're largely a regulatory body overseeing the gun industry.

ATF should go back under Treasury, be a regulatory body and leave the sting operations to the FBI.

[KeithKSR]

The "machine gun" was actually an M4. Since they were built post-1986 they aren't even allowed to be sold with the NFA tax stamp. It is probably a weapon that we bought for him with our tax dollars.

[suncat05]

Man, IF I lost a weapon like that, and especially if it were not mine to begin with, what exactly do you think my Sheriff would do to me?
I would be in the unemployment line...... in the blink of an eye. No second chances, no "do over", no chance to make another boneheaded mistake like that again. And my career would essentially be over, finished, done, kaput! Geez!
These guys at ATF are among some of the worst guys in federal service. Of course, some of them are very good too, but the good agents do not allow stuff like this to happen to themselves.
Let's see....... Ruby Ridge, Waco, Fast-n-Furious, and I know there's some more out there that haven't seen the light of day or just haven't happened yet......... :mad0176:

[CitizenBBN]

The "machine gun" was actually an M4. Since they were built post-1986 they aren't even allowed to be sold with the NFA tax stamp. It is probably a weapon that we bought for him with our tax dollars.

Didn't pay attention to which one. I should have. If it's post 1986 as you said it cannot be transferred. Class III dealers can maintain an inventory of them as "store samples" but they can only be sold to law enforcement and the military. So yes if this was a post 86 gun it was likely an issued ATF weapon.

It could have been stolen and they bought it, but as they are only in the hands of a few dealers and government agencies not a lot of stolen ones floating around.

But it's most likely theirs. Now if someone can explain to me why an agency that doesn't do anything a SWAT unit would do would have fully automatic weapons I'd be grateful. No doubt b/c they're "cool".

[CitizenBBN]

Man, IF I lost a weapon like that, and especially if it were not mine to begin with, what exactly do you think my Sheriff would do to me?
I would be in the unemployment line...... in the blink of an eye. No second chances, no "do over", no chance to make another boneheaded mistake like that again. And my career would essentially be over, finished, done, kaput! Geez!
These guys at ATF are among some of the worst guys in federal service. Of course, some of them are very good too, but the good agents do not allow stuff like this to happen to themselves.
Let's see....... Ruby Ridge, Waco, Fast-n-Furious, and I know there's some more out there that haven't seen the light of day or just haven't happened yet......... :mad0176:

Heck of a record isn't it?

[KeithKSR]

Heck of a record isn't it?

Enforcement needs to be taken from that bunch of bunglers.

[CitizenBBN]

Enforcement needs to be taken from that bunch of bunglers.

They need to be a regulatory body. Criminal investigation beyond legal prosecution of people breaking the rules should be up to the FBI. It would be like the EPA having their own armed agents setting up stings to bust people for illegal dumping or the IRS setting up stings and wire taps against mob bosses for tax evasion. Criminal violation of federal law should be handled by the FBI, not the various regulatory bodies.

[KeithKSR]

Criminal violation of federal law should be handled by the FBI, not the various regulatory bodies.

I agree completely, too many government agencies are playing cop right now and are too busy trying to insert themselves into situations instead of doing their intended jobs.